V6 v V8 v Diesel
- Thread starter Jesse1983
- Start date
No, you don't. The EPA test measures a driving pattern that has no resemblance to real roads. Measuring how a car performs 0-45-0-70-0-80-0-35-10-35-0-35-0-35-0-50-0 in 8 miles is meaningless when you want to know how it does cruising at 75. That's the EPA test. Literally. Look it up.
There's no reason to believe a 3 mpg difference on a totally different driving pattern would also apply to yours. And it doesn't.
Go read what the EPA test actually consists of. It's something designed by savants who had heard of cars but never actually seen one.
CR isn't random guys driving around town on different days. It's a specific and repeatable test corrected to SAE standards. And unlike the EPA's contrived foolishness it actually resembles real driving.
Another guy who doesn't understand....lol.
It doesn't matter what the test entails...it only matters that it is consistent on every vehicle tested. That way, you can use the test results (in other words, the EPA fuel economy ratings) to compare vehicles. Even if YOU don't get the same numbers as the EPA, you can still judge the difference in fuel economy between two vehicles.
This should not be difficult to understand.
All part of the plan to derail the thread and force everyone into V6s. Bwahaha!
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Seriously, I'm starting to become very disappointed with the lack of knowledge and common sense that seems to be the norm on this forum. There must be some intelligent people here, right? Please tell me that's true.
It's real easy to skip over the posts that don't interest you.
LOL...think about it this way: Everyone knows (or maybe I shouldn't make that assumption around here) that hybrid vehicles like your Prius have more of a fuel efficiency advantage in city driving than highway driving. This is primarily because of the "recaptured" energy during braking. Since this advantage begins to decline during highway driving, Toyota engineers should have been smart enough to make the Prius heavier, thus improving it's highway fuel economy rating.
Yes, my sarcasm is acting up on me again. Sorry!
SeattleMike
New member
It's real easy to avoid being an insulting jerk, too. In fact, why don't you practice what you preach and just ignore the posts that you feel are lacking in knowledge or common sense.
Or you could keep on pushing it... like Jed.
So you're saying it doesn't matter what they're testing because there's a magical and unbreakable correlation between all things mileage.
It's like measuring how many ping pong balls fit in the back of different trucks and assuming that tells you which one will carry more 8 foot ladders. No basis in reality.
TRDSmokedU
New member
Gas prices also fluctuate, they will go down soon enough. The educated consumer will not falter over 1 - 2 MPGS for the V8. As for the mountains, the MPG is worse for the V6 due the constant need to apply maximum throttle to keep the truck climbing steep grades in order to maintain 55 MPH. Hwy 105 from Boone into Banner Elk in NC is very steep. It has nothing to do with drag racing up the mountains; it has everything to do with how much easier the V8 climbs the steep grade as opposed to the V6. Now add on a trailer and the V6 really suffers.
It's real easy to avoid getting personal. I suggest you heed that advise. As for me, I'll take your advice and ignore your posts.
BTW, my advice wasn't to ignore posts that lack knowledge or common sense. My advice was to simply ignore the posts that don't interest you.
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No, it's nothing at all like that. I'll try to explain this one more time in the hopes that it sinks in for you:
Lesson #1: The EPA fuel economy ratings are not designed to tell us the EXACT fuel mileage numbers that we can expect to get for any given vehicle. If you take a really close look at the window sticker on a new vehicle, you'll see not only a city and highway fuel economy figure, but also a range for each number. For example, the city figure might be 20, but you'll also see a range of something like 15 - 25. Usually the posted number is right in the middle of the range. Same is true for the highway figure. So don't think that a 16/21 fuel economy rating means that you'll actually get 16 MPG in the city or 21 on the highway because it simply doesn't work that way. It's just a guide and there are far too many variables for anyone to predict your actual fuel economy with any vehicle.
Lesson #2: If you understand lesson #1, then it will be easier for you to understand that comparing EPA figures on two different vehicles is an excellent way to understand just how much more (or less) fuel efficient one vehicle is compared to another. It doesn't matter if your own calculated fuel economy equals the EPA's numbers or not, the only thing that I'm trying to explain is that if you're planning to buy a new car and you're concerned about fuel economy, the EPA's numbers will give you an excellent indication of how two vehicles compare. So forget the ACTUAL numbers for a moment and realize that if the window sticker on vehicle A has EPA figure that is 5 MPG than vehicle B, then you can be sure that you'd get about 5 MPG higher fuel economy on vehicle A than you would on vehicle B.
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Sure, add a trailer and the V6 is at a disadvantage...no doubt about it. But without a trailer, the V6 is more than capable of traversing even the steepest mountain roads. And that's my point--the V6 isn't in any way underpowered.
And the V6 doesn't get worse fuel economy in driving on mountain roads because it is working harder. That's a myth perpetuated by people who don't understand efficiency.
The educated consumer? LOL....do you realize how much rising gas prices affect consumers' buying decisions? Not only do more people choose the smaller engine option (look at the amount of V6 4th gen 4Runners sold compared to the V8 4th gen 4Runners in the 2008 model year when gas prices went crazy), but they also choose smaller, more efficient vehicles. Haven't you noticed the trend in smaller SUVs in the U.S.?
Thai
Elite Member
Taken from the "horse's mouth" (aka CR) with my highlights:
"Consumer Reports thinks the change will benefit consumers even if the lower numbers might be painful to look at in the showroom at first. A 2006 CR study showed that cars seldom meet the agency’s claims with the old system. We compared EPA figures with the mileage we measured in 303 cars and trucks for model years 2000 through 2006, and included mainstream, high-volume vehicles in a wide range of makes and models.
Our results showed that about 90 percent of the vehicles returned worse mileage than the EPA estimates. Gasoline cars averaged 9 percent fewer mpg. The biggest differences we found were in city driving. On average, the mileage was about 30 percent less than the EPA numbers. Our highway mpg more closely reflected the EPA ratings.
While the new overall mileage ratings are closer to the results of our real-world testing, there are still discrepancies between the EPA’s lab-generated results and the mileage we got from driving the cars on roads. With the new system, our overall mileage is actually better than what the EPA predicts for some models."
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So, bringing up EPA's weird test procedure and how it does not reflect real life is not really applicable in this discussion, which has been mostly focus on highway driving. And as noted by CR above, the biggest discrepancy b/w CR and the OLD EPA rating is with city driving (NOT highway mileage!)...the new EPA rating is pretty much within the ballpark of CR's ratings...and in some cases, EPA is LOWER than CR!
And just to further clarify how EPA tests the cars, you need to check this out: Detailed Test Information
As you can see, EPA does indeed run the cars up to true highway speeds...80 mph in the example given in the link!
Thus, the new EPA is indeed accurate to real life AND is scientific enough to use to compare vehicles' fuel economy.
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Thai
Elite Member
So, do you think that a difference of 13 mpg significant?? Say, going from a Corolla (35 mpg) to a Prius (48 mpg).
As noted in my example calculation a few pages back (http://www.toyota-4runner.org/724652-post126.html), a change from 17 to 19mpg is equivalent to a change from 35 to 48 mpg!!!!! "MPG" rating is highly deceptive...and can cause people to assume incorrectly about differences in mpgs! Gallons per mile is a much more accurate determination of how much fuel a vehicle uses over a distance.
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That's exactly why the EPA changed their test procedures. Under the old system, most people weren't achieving the numbers that were printed on their window sticker. Under the new system, people tend to be a lot closer. In fact, if you go to fueleconomy.gov and look up the fuel economy ratings of any vehicle produced BEFORE the new testing procedures were being used, they'll give you not only the EPA numbers that were on the car's window sticker at the time, but also the EPA numbers that would have been on the car using the new test method. Check it out...it's interesting.
Still though, I only use those EPA numbers as a basis of comparison between two cars. Even if my own fuel economy is lower than the EPA's figures, at least I have a way to compare how much more fuel efficient one vehicle is compared to another.
Thai
Elite Member
Strangely, the exception to this is the Camry Hybrid, which gets 33 mpg city and 35 mpg highway.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that all hybrids always get better fuel economy in the city than on the highway. Conventional cars usually get significantly better highway fuel economy than in the city. Although the figures you posted for the Camry Hybrid are a definitely a bit better on the highway, it's still very close to the city rating.
SP Jon M3
New member
I'm not gonna debate the physics behind it.. but I can assure you you are wrong here. I've had the 4l V6 in my Tacoma with 32s on it and the 4.7l V8 in two different 4Runners both with 33s. The 4Runners both get better mileage climbing the mountains several times each winter than the V6 Tacoma ever did (which was lighter and had smaller tires). Simple fact that the V8 stays in a more efficient portion of the power-band for the motor than the V6. The V6 was always hunting for gears going up the hills, the V8 for the most part stayed in the gear it was in.
So you can argue all you want, but simple fact is that I've had both motors, and the 4Runner get's better mileage in this situation.
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