V8s: stop the oil change craze!

[Jan777]

US recommendation for engine oil change is to change it every 5000 miles! This is an extremely short intervall for use under normal conditions!

For the same V8 engine (2UZ-FE) - built into LCs - in Europe the engine oil change is recommended every 10.000 miles!

I kept for the last year to the US recommendations, but every time I drained the engine oil (Mobile 1) at 5000 miles, it looked like new.

Such short engine oil change intervalls seem to me a waste of money & time and cause unnecessary environenmental pollution!

I will stop changing at 5000 miles and move to the European standard of 10.000!

Can anyone can give me a good reason for not doing so?

 

[KidVermicious]

I imagine that oil change intervals spec'd for different countries probably has a lot to do with expected average usage. Toyota may have a reason for spec'ing the shorter interval in the US, or maybe we're just sue happy and they're covering their butts, or maybe Big Oil paid them off, who knows. I'd go with what your owners manual tells you and don't worry so much about it.

 

[toyo]

Take a picture of that oil at 5K and post it. Let's all take a look at that "looks like new" oil.
A very easy way for you to sleep at night is start getting your oil analyzed. I like Blackstone Labs.

 

[Jan777]

labs?

Take a picture of that oil at 5K and post it. Let's all take a look at that "looks like new" oil.
A very easy way for you to sleep at night is start getting your oil analyzed. I like Blackstone Labs.

Sounds interesting, although no one I know in Europe got a chemical analysis of their engine oil. The chemical composition of used engine oil will also depend on the quality and type of fuel used.

If the local Toyota dealer tells me - off record - that US recommendation of 5000 miles for every oil change are "over cautious", that Toyota in Europe accepts an intervall of 10.00O miles as acceptable for factory waranty and my other mechanic - a racing bike expert - thanks me for every oil change of my T4R because he can "use the oil from my engine, as if it was new" - well then its time to re-think!

Whatever caused Toyota to recommend in the US half the interval for oil change than for the same engine in Europe .... it seems unreasonable!

 

[ben550]

Take a picture of that oil at 5K and post it. Let's all take a look at that "looks like new" oil.
A very easy way for you to sleep at night is start getting your oil analyzed. I like Blackstone Labs.

I recently changed mine after 7k and it did not look anything close to new. I wonder what kind of filter was used? I run 5w30 Valvoline High Mileage Synthetic Blend with a purolator classic or pureone filter (whichever is on sale). I usually stick to the 5k interval.

 

[28.]

When I had my brand new 2011 Tacoma they said every 7K.. But he also let me know synthetic was bieng used..

 

[toyo]

Sounds interesting, although no one I know in Europe got a chemical analysis of their engine oil. The chemical composition of used engine oil will also depend on the quality and type of fuel used.

If the local Toyota dealer tells me - off record - that US recommendation of 5000 miles for every oil change are "over cautious", that Toyota in Europe accepts an intervall of 10.00O miles as acceptable for factory waranty and my other mechanic - a racing bike expert - thanks me for every oil change of my T4R because he can "use the oil from my engine, as if it was new" - well then its time to re-think!

Whatever caused Toyota to recommend in the US half the interval for oil change than for the same engine in Europe .... it seems unreasonable!

Too many variables in the mix to ever figure it out. If you use a high quality oil like M1 and a good filter you can go 10K without any adverse effects.
I'm sticking to what I know works. One of my current high mileage cars has 379K on it. 2001 Lexus RX300. I have used M1 and change it at 5K since the 1st oil change. It does not burn any oil at all and the top end is still extremely clean. At least it was 30K miles ago when I changed the valve cover gaskets.

The 4.7 in the 4R is actually very easy on oil.

 

[MikeInNH]

#1 - You can NOT tell how good an oil is by looking at it.

#2 - European oil formulas are NOT the same as US formulas.

#3 - How long do you plan on keeping you 4runner? 100k miles? 200k miles. 300k miles?


Post back when you have 300k miles with the 10k oil change interval and if you had any engine problems. 10k oil change interval I'm sure is fine for up to 150k miles. Not sure about after 150k miles though.

 

[aha2988]

when did Europe start measuring distance in miles? could have swore they use the metric system.. which if they recommend 10k kilometers that would be roughly every 6200miles

 

[GLP]

I change mine (conventional oil) about every 4000-5000 miles and the color is very dark brown or black and it is much thinner than when it was new. To me there are enough contaminants in the oil after 5000 miles to justify an oil change, especially since I am doing it myself. In the US the oil gets recycled so I am not worried about any pollution caused by frequent oil changes.

 

[ebg18t]

My last sample sent to Blackstone Labs at 5k miles suggested I go to 6200 miles and retest. This was on Pennzoil platinum 5w30. I haven't sent a new sample at the higher mileage yet.

 

[Whitson Metalworks]

its just cheap insurance at the very least. if i dump brand new looking oil from our 5VZ after 5k, I say Sweet, must be running pretty good. my 7.3 ford gets 15 freakin quarts of synthetic rotella, every 5K.

 

[Fleethammer]

I bought mine with 117K on it with two previous owners so I had no idea how it was treated. I decided that I'll put German Castrol 0Ww-30 in like I have been doing with my other vehicles as of late. After 8K miles I decided to change out the GC because I was too scared to go 10K and sent a sample in to Blackstone Labs. Two oil changes later I sent a second sample in but that time I was using Mobil 1 EP, which is a 15K synthetic. I only ran this a little over 10K miles but still got excellent results, but IMO not as good as the German Castrol. I think I'll be going back to GC and running it to 10K. See the attachments below for reference.

I tow a fair amount too, use the truck as my DD with some occasional wheeling. Although the main purpose of a UOA is to understand the health of your oil, it's also the best barometer you have for understanding what's going on wear-wise in your engine short of a complete tear down. Worth getting every now and again. I'm at 157K now and I think with these results I'll wait until 200K before I send another sample off.

I think 5000 miles is fine for conventional oil, although I have run it in previous vehicles for a lot longer with no ill effects. For synthetic it's a waste of money. The main reason to buy synthetic over conventional oil is for extended OCIs, so make the most of it

BTW, bobistheoilguy is a great resource for oil-related questions.

View attachment 4Runner UOA GC.pdf

View attachment 4Runner UOA Mobil 1 EP.pdf

 

[Veritas]

I use synthetic mobile 1 every 10,000 miles as recommended. Convential oil is every 5,000 miles

 

[V8Man]

Too many variables in the mix to ever figure it out. If you use a high quality oil like M1 and a good filter you can go 10K without any adverse effects.
I'm sticking to what I know works. One of my current high mileage cars has 379K on it. 2001 Lexus RX300. I have used M1 and change it at 5K since the 1st oil change. It does not burn any oil at all and the top end is still extremely clean. At least it was 30K miles ago when I changed the valve cover gaskets.

The 4.7 in the 4R is actually very easy on oil.

Be careful with the 3.0 liter. They have had a lot of problems with oil sludging on them. My carpool buddy lost his Lexus to it!

Vehicle Engine Sludge | Consumer Reports

 

[AZ07Runner]

A lot depends on driving habits. I live pretty close to work which sounds like a good thing, but the oil doesn't have enough time to warm up to FULL operating temperature, which is not a good thing. I'd purchased the 4R in May last year with ~46k with no idea what oil had been used. I changed the oil to M1 5w30 HM. At around 6k miles later I changed the oil, but to M1 0w40 which is the Euro formula and possibly Mobil's best oil. The old oil was pretty dark which doesn't mean it was way overdue. I'm guessing at this point the 5w30 did some cleaning.
I'm only about 2k into the 0w40 and plan on changing at 60k which would be about 6k on the oil. From then on I plan on changing the oil every 5k and the filter every 10k. The small amount of oil left in the filter will hardly affect the fresh batch and the filter (OEM, btw) can handle 10k.

So, changing synthetic at 5k is probably overkill, but I figure, since I do it myself, the ~$26-$27 is cheap insurance for the oil only change. Add $4 for the filter to that amount for the other one. My short trip driving is why I'm going to follow this procedure and not do oil analysis.

For those interested, I did feel a little bit of change with the 0w40. It felt a SLIGHT bit sluggish upon the first few minutes of driving, but I barely notice it anymore. No change in mpg according to the monitor, even when using the A/C.

As someone else mentioned, bobistheoilguy is a great place to find info. Been there since 1992.

 

[JEL]

Be careful with the 3.0 liter. They have had a lot of problems with oil sludging on them. My carpool buddy lost his Lexus to it!

Vehicle Engine Sludge | Consumer Reports

To be fair he does seem to do everything "right," and he has nearly 400k on it. Oddly enough I had an LS400 which was dealer maintained with conventional 5w30 every 5k, driven by an elderly couple, and that thing was actually sludged pretty bad. I suspect they made a ton of short trips in it or something. It was fine for the time I owned it, and I ran M1 at 3k intervals a few times to clean it out and it never had a problem after that, but I found it surprising that the LS400 got caught by the sludge monster as it did not have the reputation for it (it was a 2000 with 100k). Makes me wonder if the Seattle-area Lexus dealer was just swiping their credit card and not actually doing any work; Stone Cold Steve Austin was right, DTA.

 

[Dylan]

I change mine about every 5k miles. It doesn't look like new. But again you cant verify anything just from the look, unless say, the oil was glowing green or something when it came out. Then yes, a visual inspection such as that might lead you to believe something's up.

 

[toyo]

Be careful with the 3.0 liter. They have had a lot of problems with oil sludging on them. My carpool buddy lost his Lexus to it!

Vehicle Engine Sludge | Consumer Reports

I know all too well about the 3.0 problems that some owners had. Here is a picture I took of the top end when I replaced the valve cover gaskets. This engine is pretty much spotless for the mileage.

 

[CXS]

Oil chemistry and engine technology have evolved tremendously in recent years, but you'd never know it from the quick-change behavior of American car owners. Driven by an outdated 3,000-mile oil change commandment, they are unnecessarily spending millions of dollars and spilling an ocean of contaminated waste oil.

The majority of automakers today call for oil changes at either 7,500 or 10,000 miles, and the interval can go as high as 15,000 miles in some cars. Yet this wasteful cycle continues largely because the automotive service industry, while fully aware of the technological advances, continues to preach the 3,000-mile gospel as a way to keep the service bays busy. As a result, even the most cautious owners are dumping their engine oil twice as often as their service manuals recommend.

Remainder of article: Stop Changing Your Oil! | Edmunds.com

I do mine around 5K this time of year with high ambient temps, trailer towing, mountain passes, lots of off-roading, etc.