Vibration in brake pedal

[marlopez]

This is a cross post from the braking noise thread, but does anyone notice a vibration feeling at the brake pedal when coming to a complete stop?

I notice a subtle vibration when coming to a complete stop that lasts for maybe 1 second. It isn’t like a vibration you feel when ABS is engaged; it feels like there are some gears turning or something. I want to think it has to do with the VSC or the car trying to do some preventative measure or something.

Edit: So after my hour drive home from work I paid closer attention to when this happens. No matter what speed I'm going (in stop and go traffic and going 65 mph), after the initial first few centimeters of depressing the brake, I feel the vibrations in the pedal, then it immediately goes away. It seems like something is being activated, then deactivated. It doesn't happen every time I push the brake, but more so after I haven't braked immediately before. I'm leading to this this is a premature reaction of the Brake Assist system or the EBD, but at the speeds and road conditions I'm experience this, there should be no reason either of these should be activating. Do any of you experience this? This is all in my 2010 Limited 4x4.

 

[Tiresidedown]

My Tundra has a similar VSC system in it (I think) and my brake will shutter/vibrate a bit on occasion if im braking over an uneven/loose surface or if one of the tires is in a wet spot while braking.

not sure if that helps at all.

 

[marlopez]

It's more of a gears turning feeling. But it definitely happens on flat, smooth surface.

 

[harper7]

It's more of a gears turning feeling. But it definitely happens on flat, smooth surface.

Have you driven a 4th Gen or 2010 4Runner before to compare the brakes?What was your previous automobile and did it weigh 5000 lbs? Anything that you are not sure on that's a safety issue,like brakes....take it to the dealer to be sure!

I would probably go back to the dealer and ask to test drive another new 4Runner to see if it feels the same to you to narrow it down whether there is a problem with yours or that's just the way 4Runner brakes are. All 2010 4Runners have the same brake systems.

There have also been a few complaints/questions on this forum about the brakes from people that are new to 4Runners. With me coming off a 2006 Runner, they feel the same to me but they do have their little idiosyncrasies with pedal feel and noises I guess. I'm just used to it and mine work great.

Good Luck and hopefully it is nothing!:thumb3:

 

[marlopez]

Thanks harper. I am actually going to stop by my dealership on Friday and check out another 4Runner. I have had one 3rd Gen 4Runners before, and both my parents drive 3rd Gens and I’ve never noticed this feeling in the pedal. However, this is the first 4WD 4Runner I’ve driven, so I’m not sure if this is normal.

 

[marlopez]

See my edited response in the original post above.

 

[smalls]

would be interested to hear what the dealer says when you take it to check it out. My wife's 4runner is doing something similiar but having never owned another 4runner or Toyota for that matter, I'm not sure if it's normal or not.

 

[marlopez]

I went to the dealer and talked to the mechanic. Unfortunately they didn't have any 2010 4Runners for me to try and compare.

The mechanic drove my car and immediately diagnosed the issue. He told me that the feeling on the brake pedal is the brake motor. Since the neither of the previous 4Runners I've owned have the electronic brake-by-wire system that the new Toyotas have, this feeling is new and foreign to me. Basically, the brake motor powers up depending on the brake pressure being applied to the brake. Adjacent to the brake motor in the engine, is the brake actuator which is filled with an x-amount of brake fluid. When the fluid level in the actuator falls below the pre-programmed threshold in the system, the brake power powers up to refill the actuator to the programmed level.

This explains why the "vibration" isn't felt every time--the actuator is re-filled every time you feel the motor working. But if you repeatedly step on the brake on and off, you will feel the motor power up almost every other press. Or on a long press of the brake, the motor can be felt towards the latter end of the braking because the pressure in the actuator is decreased due to a draining of the fluid and the motor needs to power up to refill.

Apparently this is felt on all of the newer Toyotas (Priuses, Highlanders, Land Cruisers, etc.). The mechanic admitted that he won't be surprised that this will become an issue that will be brought up by the media/Toyota in the future.

 

[T4Fun]

:sadwave:

I went to the dealer and talked to the mechanic. Unfortunately they didn't have any 2010 4Runners for me to try and compare.

The mechanic drove my car and immediately diagnosed the issue. He told me that the feeling on the brake pedal is the brake motor. Since the neither of the previous 4Runners I've owned have the electronic brake-by-wire system that the new Toyotas have, this feeling is new and foreign to me. Basically, the brake motor powers up depending on the brake pressure being applied to the brake. Adjacent to the brake motor in the engine, is the brake actuator which is filled with an x-amount of brake fluid. When the fluid level in the actuator falls below the pre-programmed threshold in the system, the brake power powers up to refill the actuator to the programmed level.

This explains why the "vibration" isn't felt every time--the actuator is re-filled every time you feel the motor working. But if you repeatedly step on the brake on and off, you will feel the motor power up almost every other press. Or on a long press of the brake, the motor can be felt towards the latter end of the braking because the pressure in the actuator is decreased due to a draining of the fluid and the motor needs to power up to refill.

Apparently this is felt on all of the newer Toyotas (Priuses, Highlanders, Land Cruisers, etc.). The mechanic admitted that he won't be surprised that this will become an issue that will be brought up by the media/Toyota in the future.

um, brake by wire? i dont know, but that sounds like more trouble ahead for toyota as the mechanic said. Our infiniti also has EBD, brake assist, vsc, the other safety jazz and not ever has it made these vibration issues or swooshing sound. I was gonna guess that the swooshing sound was the brake fluid. but what is this brake motor you're talking about?

Judging from what the current headlines say, "Toyota withheld crash lawsuit evidence" doesnt give me a whole lot of confidence to go out and buy a 4R after ALL the reading, planned mods and test drives. I am overall very dissappointed at TM.
Final point another member(s) here made. The 10 4runner also has the 'brake override' system. Now step back a minute. If toyota was unaware of the acceleration issues, then whey did it put this on the new 4runner? Hmmm?

 

[Quentin]

:sadwave:

um, brake by wire? i dont know, but that sounds like more trouble ahead for toyota as the mechanic said. Our infiniti also has EBD, brake assist, vsc, the other safety jazz and not ever has it made these vibration issues or swooshing sound. I was gonna guess that the swooshing sound was the brake fluid. but what is this brake motor you're talking about?

Judging from what the current headlines say, "Toyota withheld crash lawsuit evidence" doesnt give me a whole lot of confidence to go out and buy a 4R after ALL the reading, planned mods and test drives. I am overall very dissappointed at TM.
Final point another member(s) here made. The 10 4runner also has the 'brake override' system. Now step back a minute. If toyota was unaware of the acceleration issues, then whey did it put this on the new 4runner? Hmmm?

They were aware of floormat entrapment in certain models a few years back and they recalled it (Camry and ES350, maybe?). Chances are, the brake override was planned for every major redesign as soon as they found that initial issue of floormat entrapment. I'm willing to bet that quite a few models don't have the hardware required for the brake override and that is why it is coming w/ major model changes instead of being added retroactively to everything.

Finally, don't believe everything the main stream media says. They have an agenda. Think about it. Which is better for the media: Toyota's documents showing they did what they should have done or some bullet points from documents that can be construed as "withholding"?

 

[Jtraskell]

:sadwave:

um, brake by wire? i dont know, but that sounds like more trouble ahead for toyota as the mechanic said. Our infiniti also has EBD, brake assist, vsc, the other safety jazz and not ever has it made these vibration issues or swooshing sound. I was gonna guess that the swooshing sound was the brake fluid. but what is this brake motor you're talking about?

Judging from what the current headlines say, "Toyota withheld crash lawsuit evidence" doesnt give me a whole lot of confidence to go out and buy a 4R after ALL the reading, planned mods and test drives. I am overall very dissappointed at TM.
Final point another member(s) here made. The 10 4runner also has the 'brake override' system. Now step back a minute. If toyota was unaware of the acceleration issues, then whey did it put this on the new 4runner? Hmmm?

I am not sure the 4runner has the brake override system. Those who say they had it, seemed to have tested their vehicles while driving at some speed, then hitting the gas and brake at the same time. This maybe an incorrect test. See the below post from a thread I started regarding brake sounds a week or so ago.

Dekeman, did you check you build Date? Mine was 12/09, unsure of exact date, and mine does not seem to have that feature. An automotive engineer friend of mine gave me instructions as to how to check and it was somewhat different then what you did. I copied and pasted his directions here.

To test feature, take vehicle to open parking lot. Place gear selector in drive and place left foot on brake pedal firmly. Depress accelerator pedal. If so equipped, the rpm will rise to approximately 1500-1800 then the computer ignores any further throttle input. Computer is receiving out of range signal from engine because it is not receiving input from speed sensor and it is receiving brake switch input. PCM makes decision and ignores throttle position sensor input.

Having worked for an auto manufacturer, I can tell you that changes occur in the middle of production runs all the time. Yours could be programmed that way but one from a month earlier may not have programming update (just a for instance).

My RPM's continued to climb past 3K and then the back tires started to break loss, (power braking) so I stopped. So I am thinking, I do not have the feature.


Now, the way you did it, and the way I was instructed to do it, may be the difference, maybe not. It simply may be that yours was built at a later date and the feature was added with yours. Appreciate you input.
Jake

 

[M1911]

This is a cross post from the braking noise thread, but does anyone notice a vibration feeling at the brake pedal when coming to a complete stop?

I notice a subtle vibration when coming to a complete stop that lasts for maybe 1 second. It isn’t like a vibration you feel when ABS is engaged; it feels like there are some gears turning or something. I want to think it has to do with the VSC or the car trying to do some preventative measure or something.

It is the electric brake booster pump. It is on the other side of the firewall, and it runs periodically to boost the pressure in the brake system. The 4th Gens do the same thing. It's normal.

 

[wombie]

This sounds all too familiar to me.

My 2006 Runner had the same issue - there would be an electronic buzzing or pulsing feeling whenever i pressed the brake pedal down - even when it was in park. It got to be so distracting when braking that I think it was arguably (from my POV) dangerous. Brake pedals should do nothing but brake the truck.

It is part of the master cylinder/brake booster system. It shakes around (the pump at any rate) every time you brake - you can open the hood and see/feel it.

In my case they first tried replacing the booster. That didn't work so they had to replace the entire master cylinder. This eliminated the pulse/movement in the brake pedal.

Now, this took a number of trips to the dealership to diagnose. The techs didn't really get what the problem was until I asked them to pull up a couple other 4runners so we could compare them.

I hope this information is helpful.

 

[yellowrose]

Wow, you spent 5k to fix a minor vibration?

I just paid 3k for my booster brake assembly motor and now they want to do a 1500 job on the master cylinder--mine is a loud screeching noise but first fix didn't change the noise.... I think we both may have been ripped off.

 

[Hockey]

same vibration/sensation

I am getting the same sensation through the brake pedal on my 2010 4 runner. i took it to the dealership and of course, they could not detect a the grinding or vibration. I did drive another 2010 and did not notice the sensation. But, just like you described, it is intermittent and doesn't occur all the time. And you're right,it does feel like a motor is deploying. It is very aggravating and annoying and can be worse at certain times. I seem to notice it more at low speeds but not as much if I have been driving it for a while especially after highway driving. I am planning on taking it to another dealership this week. You'd think with all the problems Toyota has had, this would be a non-issue. One of the last things you want to feel is vibration through the brake pedal on a $30,000 plus vehicle. Regardless if something is not mechanically inferior, this is NOT something you want to feel while you're braking. If there is not an explanation for it or it cannot be fixed, this will be the last Toyota I own and I have owned 3 in the past 20 years. Thanks for posting your observation as I thought I might be the only one who noticed this. Now, if Toyota will just recognize there's a concern.

 

[Rob_G]

This is a cross post from the braking noise thread, but does anyone notice a vibration feeling at the brake pedal when coming to a complete stop?

I notice a subtle vibration when coming to a complete stop that lasts for maybe 1 second. It isn’t like a vibration you feel when ABS is engaged; it feels like there are some gears turning or something. I want to think it has to do with the VSC or the car trying to do some preventative measure or something.

Edit: So after my hour drive home from work I paid closer attention to when this happens. No matter what speed I'm going (in stop and go traffic and going 65 mph), after the initial first few centimeters of depressing the brake, I feel the vibrations in the pedal, then it immediately goes away. It seems like something is being activated, then deactivated. It doesn't happen every time I push the brake, but more so after I haven't braked immediately before. I'm leading to this this is a premature reaction of the Brake Assist system or the EBD, but at the speeds and road conditions I'm experience this, there should be no reason either of these should be activating. Do any of you experience this? This is all in my 2010 Limited 4x4.

Probably not related, but I thought I would share:

My 4R TE is having a lot of issue with the slip yoke sticking after 1000kms. It's causing all kinds of thumping in the drive train upon initial braking/acceleration. I know it's the slip yoke because my 08 FJ had the exact same problem. I'm going to have the joints lubed this week and I hope that will help.

Rob

 

[4rbcool]

I have had my 2010 4Runner trail into the dealership for this same issue before. I don't like the steering wheel vibrating when you apply the brakes. It fells like a warped rotor but the dealer always say it is fine. Sometimes the brakes will just lock up when applying the brakes one in a while and is hard to duplicate for the dealership. It's going back again tomorrow for the same thing. My wife has also had enough of this issue. Anyone else experiencing this?

 

[Swacer]

I have the same feeling in my 2016. I originally thought it was ABS overreacting and couldn't figure out why in the world it would try to use ABS when I was stopping from 50-0 slowly.

I turned off my radio and listened for it to happen again, and when it did, it sounds like an electric motor or something is running.

It only happens occasionally, and is hard to duplicate. I will keep an eye on it, but having a secondary motor sounds logical.

 

[4rbcool]

I've had this truck since new and I haven't heard the pump that some have discribed. It just seems like something else. To the dealership in the morning

 

[4rbcool]

Well dealer now say all four rotors are warped and need to be resurfaced and brakes replaced because they all have "hot spots" on them. And even through this was brought in early on for the same symptoms this is not warranty. going driving today to check out the work and see if this cleared it up.