WarnerD9's Build thread

[WarnerD9]

So, how are you liking the 4.56 gears? Still want to unload that Shrockworks bumper? I got wedged in to a big rock today and completely destroyed my OEM bumper.

Still trying to find a competent alignment shop in Grand Junction. 3 strikes so far, my caster and toe are good at this point, but camber is visibly off by several degrees.

[MENTION=78273]Jeremy556[/MENTION], 4:56s are working out well. you can really notice it on the low speed acceleration. I don't think that the trans has fully adapted yet but it seems to be figuring out the new shift points. At freeway speed it doesn't gear hunt nearly as much and feels closer to factory. I need to figure out how to reset shift points as it still thinks they should be what they were previously.

No noticeable mileage gains, revs are slightly higher than where I would like them to be at 75, but at least it is holding and maintaining 5th instead of diving down into 3rd or 4th every time a head breeze kisses the front bumper.

If I did it over, 4:11s may be the way to go, but would be spend for a minor change. I think the 4:56s should have been one of my first mods and not one of the last.

No immediate plans to offload the Shrockworks bumper. I'll keep you posted.

 

[WarnerD9]

So I posted some pictures from my Moab trip and I never told the full story. After telling a few people they've put the guilt trip on me and its working. Here it goes.



We were having a great trip, everything was working well and the confidence was high. Towards the middle of the trail we were pulling a stunt where we pull two rigs through a hot tub at the same time. I wasn't paying enough attention and got off the right line. Like the video going up Hell's gate, I lifted the passenger front tire higher than I did on Hell's gate.

http://youtu.be/u63i3VBv1k8
The engine was still purring as the photo was taken.*

We decided to to winch it out to avoid backing down. As I was winching out, the engine died after idling for a few minutes at the extreme angle. I went to restart the engine and it acted like the battery was dead or I had killed the alternator.

At this point we didn't want to back it back down into the whole in case it became disabled. I assumed that the RSCA sensor may have been triggered so I pressed it and started the engine. After pressing the button the engine started on the second cycle. Immediately the ungodly sounds began and I immediately shut it down. An enormous cloud of white smoke blew past the front of the car and my spotter saw a piece of the engine fall down into the hole.



Yeah, we knew it was no bueno but it was difficult to tell what actually happened. I had head that same noise twice from my older 22REs when the crank went out but I didn't think that it was possible in this scenario with such a new vehicle under factory warranty. Strangely enough I had cell service so I called my Toyota master tech and explained the situation. Per instructions we tested and the flywheel turned so we had a shot. I also have a great relationship with a local Moab legend, Dan Mick who was instrumental in getting us out.



Dan Mick arrived and served as a second anchor to pull the new 4Runner out that weighs almost double what the old runner does. Once we got it on level ground we found the piece of metal that came from the engine and came to realize that it was a piece of the block. We decided to tow the vehicle out off the trail. Luckily I had two master pull kinetic ropes. One for the front tow vehicle to pull and another for braking from the old runner following behind.



It was a difficult tow due to the newer runner acting as a 6K lb dead weight on wheels. Traction was the biggest issue and we had to double up the towing rigs on a few large climbs.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0cR4aW5gHw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsEbQfFMU3c


Dan Mick saved the day as the old runner didn't have the weight to be able to pull the newer runner out and having another vehicle made it much safer. Overall, I'd say it was pretty well executed and the kinetic ropes saved the day. Eventually we got the rig back to Moab and we got it towed back up to Salt Lake a few days later.



What was going through my head? Well at first I was in shock. I couldn't believe that it happened. The tow out was stressful with the vehicle being disabled but my group members made it very easy for me. I really couldn't figure out how it happened as there weren't clear indicators. I knew that I had had it at an extreme angle but while it was idling it gave no indicators that it was a problem until it died suddenly. Then I started wondering if it was a warrantable failure or if I had been a complete idiot and destroyed my perfectly good engine. The thought of telling my wife that I toasted our engine and we'd need to budget $7-10K for an unexpected heart transplant.



After dropping it off at the dealer with a well constructed and honest story. Yes it was both, it was time to wait and see what if the warranty Gods would smile upon me or laugh at me with a thunderous laughter. Fortunately I had religiously maintained my vehicle at Mark Miller Toyota since I bought it, working with the same service advisor and master tech since day one. I told them that I didn't believe that I had done anything to destroy the engine, but it also wasn't my call. They vowed to do their best to get it covered under warranty and the waiting game began.



A few days later after pulling the engine out we found that oil had pooled in the rear of the drivers side head near the breather which caused rough idle and the engine decided it was best to shut down. When I reset the RSCA the engine pushed oil, thinking it was air into cylinders 5 and 6. It dumped enough oil into cylinder 5 that it burned it off, hence the cloud of smoke. However it dumped enough into 6 that the piston could compress and the starter and crank shaft forced the rod to give. This broke the the rod near the piston, the rod went down and as it came back up it punched through the outside cylinder wall. When it went to go back down, the rod was stuck in the hole and broke again. The middle section of the rod fell down into the oil pan. All in about two seconds.

So now its your turn. With 44,000 miles on a 2011 4Runner TE, will Toyota cover it under warranty or teach me a lesson? Make your call. 100 points if you guess right. The answer and how it all went down to come. The two of you that know are prohibited form sharing.

 

[chmura]

Wow that's a interesting ride you went on with the 4runner.

Glad you got it towed out safely.

My guess is that Toyota covered it under warranty since you been getting it serviced at the dealer and they have records to prove it. Plus seems like you have a good relationship with that dealer and they can fight for you to make it a warranty claim.

That's unfortunate that the 4runners engine failed on that severe incline. Jeeps always go through that particular hot tub and i think I seen a sports mobile go through it. I think you could of had the left wheels ontop of that ledge, seems like most people go through it that way.

Hope Toyota fixes your rig quickly because I love seeing your wheelin' pics!

 

[4Running Daily]

I'm going to say they covered it under warranty as well.

 

[smallfry]

That sucks. At least you got a good story and photo's to go withit.

I'm going to go against the gain and say not covered under warranty.

 

[bimrunner]

Whoa! That is nuts! I had no idea that could happen with such a new engine and obviously you were trying your best to be conservative in getting out of that situation. I'm going to say, given the artfully but well crafted story with pics that Toyota pulled through and a new heart was granted.

 

[KodeRush]

WOW, holy smokes, literally. Glad you got your truck towed out safely, and everyone is safe. It sucks, but still better than engine suddenly shutdown on the highway.

Good luck man.

 

[Intruder]

My guess is that the dealership tried to warranty it but Toyota regional said no.

Btw, did the bump out on your slider and possibly your rear bumper save you from getting body damage? That's how it looks in the second and fourth pics.

 

[Jesse1983]

Jesus man. i can only imagine the feeling you had in your stomach as the truck started tipping. i've had that feeling under much, much less intense circumstances and it's very unpleasant. glad you're ok and I'm hoping your repair was warrantied.

 

[1engineer]

I think because of your relationship with the dealer warranty was approved.
Oh, great pics! I also think that even at that angle oil shouldn't have been trapped in a certain point. You just may have been the first guy to test that in a specific application and it will now become a case to take back to Japan with the engineers.

 

[chmura]

Where is the PCV valve located in the 4.0 V6 engine?

My assumption is that the PCV valve is located somewhere in the rear of the engine. So the PCV valve got flooded with oil with that severe angle and in return you got oil pumping into your intake manifold.

Also is there a drain in the rear of the heads of the V6? I know the oil drains from the from of the engine where the timing chain is. I am not sure if there is a drain in the rear of the engine?

If a PCV valve was to blame with some creative engineering you can relocate the PCV valve to prevent this in the future. Should be simple.

I have to give you major credit though. You are the top member in the 5th gen who does the most hardcore wheeling. :cheers: Your pictures always make me lust over the 5th gen TE and make me want to trade in my 4th gen.

So the dealer will give you a short block? If its NOT covered under warranty than maybe its best to throw in a used engine in there. 5th gens are still relatively new so finding a low mileage engine should not be hard. Best of luck to you! Hopefully this event won't stop you from hardcore wheeling like this!

 

[phillyd2]

I was always told that if the truck ever gets to that angle to turn off the engine right away. If it was covered consider yourself very luck.

Great pics and very glad you are ok :cheers:

BTW, this video comes back as 'private' for me: YouTube

 

[NorthWest 4R]

My guess is the photo-op is what really lead to the failure of you're engine. If you didn't stop idling for that and continued focused on wheeling. When that front came up like that you could have backed on down to try again at a better angle, or stopped there where you did shut it off and do what you did and winch out. Or at the very least, when the engine died at that angle don't try and restart it there.

I'm my opinion, you are 100% at fault for what lead to the cause of this failure.

 

[KVA]

I think because of your relationship with the dealer warranty was approved.
Oh, great pics! I also think that even at that angle oil shouldn't have been trapped in a certain point. You just may have been the first guy to test that in a specific application and it will now become a case to take back to Japan with the engineers.

I've got to agree here...clearly this spot in Moab is highly traversed based on the pics, so this isn't the first vehicle to go through something that could cause such an extreme angle but on this specific model there is clearly a problem that wasn't thought through completely.

That said, it will come down to your relationship with the dealer. Even if Toyota Corp says no, the dealer may say yes.

I had a co-worker who blew an engine on a very expensive/limited production sports car and he owned up to the fact that it could have been his fault since he chipped it. The manufacturer denied the claim but the dealer came back and agreed to replace the entire engine since he didn't bad mouth the situation on the forum, the manufacturer, or the specific dealer when he learned of the first denial. The dealer got a lot of great praise because of these actions and probably won some business....sometimes it pays to be nice on a forum as these guys do read, too.

 

[chmura]

My guess is the photo-op is what really lead to the failure of you're engine. If you didn't stop idling for that and continued focused on wheeling. When that front came up like that you could have backed on down to try again at a better angle, or stopped there where you did shut it off and do what you did and winch out. Or at the very least, when the engine died at that angle don't try and restart it there.

I'm my opinion, you are 100% at fault for what lead to the cause of this failure.

At that angle is was in even backing up slightly and hitting the brakes could of made him roll over. So he was waiting to get winched to pull the front end down. Blaming it on the photo-op is little extreme. :bash:

 

[Stifler]

DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!:shocked:

 

[phillyd2]

So he was waiting to get winched to pull the front end down. Blaming it on the photo-op is little extreme.

I think he means letting the engine run during the wait.

 

[NorthWest 4R]

I think he means letting the engine run during the wait.

Yes, also had I been their I would have been the guy shouting " turn that mother F'R off".

 

[WarnerD9]

My guess is that the dealership tried to warranty it but Toyota regional said no.



Btw, did the bump out on your slider and possibly your rear bumper save you from getting body damage? That's how it looks in the second and fourth pics.

Bump out slider saved the drivers side on this one. Great observation.

I think because of your relationship with the dealer warranty was approved.
Oh, great pics! I also think that even at that angle oil shouldn't have been trapped in a certain point. You just may have been the first guy to test that in a specific application and it will now become a case to take back to Japan with the engineers.

Toyota flew their guy in and he said and did exactly what you mentioned as well as taking pictures of the rig to show their engineering team that people actually off road these things and they sent old block back for testing.

Where is the PCV valve located in the 4.0 V6 engine?

My assumption is that the PCV valve is located somewhere in the rear of the engine. So the PCV valve got flooded with oil with that severe angle and in return you got oil pumping into your intake manifold.

Also is there a drain in the rear of the heads of the V6? I know the oil drains from the from of the engine where the timing chain is. I am not sure if there is a drain in the rear of the engine?

If a PCV valve was to blame with some creative engineering you can relocate the PCV valve to prevent this in the future. Should be simple.

I have to give you major credit though. You are the top member in the 5th gen who does the most hardcore wheeling. :cheers: Your pictures always make me lust over the 5th gen TE and make me want to trade in my 4th gen.

So the dealer will give you a short block? If its NOT covered under warranty than maybe its best to throw in a used engine in there. 5th gens are still relatively new so finding a low mileage engine should not be hard. Best of luck to you! Hopefully this event won't stop you from hardcore wheeling like this!

Breather is located on top of the head closest to the driver. Drain valve is opposite opposite. We installed a Mishimoto oil catch to prevent it in the future. Not sure that they will actually reengineer since they are moving away from body on frame and this type of application.

My guess is the photo-op is what really lead to the failure of you're engine. If you didn't stop idling for that and continued focused on wheeling. When that front came up like that you could have backed on down to try again at a better angle, or stopped there where you did shut it off and do what you did and winch out. Or at the very least, when the engine died at that angle don't try and restart it there.



I'm my opinion, you are 100% at fault for what lead to the cause of this failure.

You are correct that the photo op led to or contributed to the failure. As @churma mentioned below, backing down did not seem like a good option and it should have been just as easy go forward as it would have to go back. Additionally the engine gave no sign that there was a problem until it shut down. I had had the vehicle at similar angles earlier that day without issues so no reason to assume there would be in this one. We tried winching it out without running and it just pulled the old runner towards it. Backing down could have easily led to laying on its side.

Thanks for your opinion, very helpful...

At that angle is was in even backing up slightly and hitting the brakes could of made him roll over. So he was waiting to get winched to pull the front end down. Blaming it on the photo-op is little extreme. :bash:

You got it but the photo op didn't help.

I think he means letting the engine run during the wait.

Bingo

Yes, also had I been their I would have been the guy shouting " turn that mother F'R off".

Yeah, that wasn't going through any of our heads. We were thinking of how to get it out of there.

Also consider that despite the photo op, it takes time to get a winch strapped up. The winch was being set up while the photos were being taken. It took a good 45 seconds to get the vehicle positioned, and another two-three minutes to get the remote and lines hooked up. The winch had just been tensioned when the engine died.

All I'm saying is that hindsight is usually close to twenty twenty and it's easier to assess when you've had a chance to think it through vs when your one year old is in the back seat and everybody is panicking. Considering I'd say we did ok, but certainly could have been better.

If I had the chance I would have just thrown a strap on to tension the rig while I backed down and realigned to take a clean run. But like I said, confidence was running high and it didn't seem like a big deal, then the sh$& hit the fan.

 

[1engineer]

Toyota flew their guy in and he said and did exactly what you mentioned as well as taking pictures of the rig to show their engineering team that people actually off road these things and they sent old block back for testing.

As an engineer, I don't see you keeping it running while in that position as any big deal nor the cause of failure. I am pretty sure they will analyze it and make small changes to the internal passages so it won't happen again. While I don't know the problem exactly it could only be a few things.

Word to the wise [MENTION=66300]Intruder[/MENTION] keep it under that angle lol.

For those of you that think that was too steep of an angle to keep the engine running you are wrong. As shown, many vehicles have been in that exact same hole and came through it just fine apparently. Even in our neck of the woods going through a ditch or getting winched up a hill or bank could put it in that position as well. Yes, it looks like you discovered a design flaw! Yay!