WarnerD9's Build thread

[NorthWest 4R]

As an engineer, I don't see you keeping it running while in that position as any big deal nor the cause of failure. I am pretty sure they will analyze it and make small changes to the internal passages so it won't happen again. While I don't know the problem exactly it could only be a few things.

LOL, they are going to make a few small changes so you're engine will run just fine for extended periods at this angle. At what angle does it end then, until vertical? This engine has been out for how many years now, how many have you heard of?

This engine is also in the FJ, and most wheel them allot harder that the 5th gen 4R crowd, haven't seen it a problem over their.

How many other late model vehicles offered now do you think that can run for extended periods at that angle without a problem?

For those of you that think that was too steep of an angle to keep the engine running you are wrong. As shown, many vehicles have been in that exact same hole and came through it just fine apparently. Even in our neck of the woods going through a ditch or getting winched up a hill or bank could put it in that position as well. Yes, it looks like you discovered a design flaw! Yay!

Correct many have been through that trail, does that mean they all took the same line and we're just sitting idling at that same extreme angle, resulting in having to get winched out or flop it?

I don't think it was the trail or even possibly the line he took, it was directly caused by what happened after that. Sitting for a bit idling at that angle, the engine knew their was a problem, probable why it cut power. Then he tried to "re-start" it multiple times all while at the same angle finaly pushing the RSCA button. Then when it finally did start, poooofff.

 

[NorthWest 4R]

You are correct that the photo op led to or contributed to the failure. As @churma mentioned below, backing down did not seem like a good option and it should have been just as easy go forward as it would have to go back. Additionally the engine gave no sign that there was a problem until it shut down. I had had the vehicle at similar angles earlier that day without issues so no reason to assume there would be in this one. We tried winching it out without running and it just pulled the old runner towards it. Backing down could have easily led to laying on its side.

Thanks for your opinion, very helpful...

No need to explain should'a, would'a, could'a, I am sure if you could go back you would do things differently. What I originally meant by the "photo-op" is what lead to it is, if you had the time to pose/take a photo then you had plenty time to react before the problem arouse no mater the fact if you we're getting winched down or up.

All in all, Good luck and I hope you're dealer takes care of it, sounds like you are on good terms with them already.

 

[Osmith]

Warranty due to the friendliness you have with your dealer... When I drive by my dealer they act like its a sin to mod the 4R...lol but with that being said since you discovered something quite interesting I'm going to say not only do you get a new engine but the supercharger on top so you can launch yourself out of those situations next time..."at those angles" they'll just become a launch pad

 

[Doubledew]

I was just talking to one of the mechanics I work with the other day down at Mark Miller and he was talking about a guy who blew the engine is his 4Runner going up a steep hill, I had no I idea it was yours!

 

[WarnerD9]

An Unexpected heart Transplant Part II

Alright so we figured out the the engine hydrolocked. As they were investigating and had done the initial tear down, I asked my service advisor what his thoughts were. He resounded by saying by explaining that nothing was certain yet but that it didn't look good. They were rather suspect that I had ingested water or debris from the more than expected water crossing. I had brought it in a week or so before to check up on a rough idle at startup. They ended replacing the idler bearing under warranty and I thought that for sure i was screwed. I had done everything I could to ensure that the there was no water or debris in the the engine.

A few days later the Toyota warranty big wig came in and inspected the vehicle. Apparently he took a bunch of pictures of the whole vehicle and really liked it. He wanted to show the engineers what people actually do with the rigs and how they use them. I never got a chance to talk to him but they say he's a pretty cool guy. My Service Advisor called me later that day and said that if they found debris they may be willing to help me out and if it was starved for oil Toyota would cover it.

Hence a half hearted sigh of relief and the waiting continued. Another day or so and I got what I thought was the best news I could have asked for. Based on the fact that I had religiously maintained the vehicle at the same dealer since I got it they covered it under warranty. I wrote them a nice letter saying thanks and trying to show my gratitude. Quite honestly I couldn't have held it against them if they hand't of warrantied it. I had pushed it to its limits or beyond and something had to give. They did mention that if I hadn't of maintained it how and where I did they wouldn't have given it near as much consideration which I think is understandable.

One more reason to be anal about maintenance and use the proper parts and techniques. I knew I was paying more to have the dealership do the work, but they always did a great job and it really ended up paying off.

Seeing that the front diff was out I took advantage of the situation and had them install 4:56s.

I consider myself to be very fortunate and lucky in this situation. I am very grateful to Toyota and Mark Miller Toyota for helping me out when they didn't have to. I'll be going back there for life and its one more reason to recommend them. Its nice to know that you have a dealer and a manufacturer who stand behind what they do.

I hope that you enjoyed this and that you don't have to go through the same experience. If you do i will help you build your case and write your story to give to the dealer. Happy wheeling...

 

[chmura]

Glad to see that Toyota is fixing it for you! That must of been a huge relief for you. Congrats.

Can you tell us what Toyota is replacing? Giving you a brand new short block, long block? Or giving you a new block and salvaging your old heads?

My guess would be a brand new short block.

 

[Keemonrunnin]

So you didn't have to pay for the labor as well? My guess would have been that Toyota would warranty the engine but charge you for the labor. You would still be ahead if it were to be this situation. Labor=About $3k. Engine+labor=$14-17k just my guess. Glad to hear Toyota warranted it for you.

 

[WarnerD9]

Glad to see that Toyota is fixing it for you! That must of been a huge relief for you. Congrats.

Can you tell us what Toyota is replacing? Giving you a brand new short block, long block? Or giving you a new block and salvaging your old heads?

My guess would be a brand new short block.

Yeah, I guess I left out some important details. Toyota really stepped up and I had no out of pocket expenses. They covered labor, a new short block and four valves that had been bent. Like I said I am very fortunate, I really appreciate what Toyota and the dealer did for me.

 

[STX4Runner]

Wow! Amazing to see the dealer step up like that. Another reason I will be having my service done at the dealer until the extended warranty runs out. Also, a good lesson for all of us to turn off the engine or get out of a very off camber/extreme angle situtation as soon as possible when off road. Also cool that the warranty guy will hopefuly be showning the engineers that we actually do wheel these things.

 

[phillyd2]

Sorry for being so dim but where the water come from?

 

[Gabex35]

Sorry for being so dim but where the water come from?

"Breather is located on top of the head closest to the driver. Drain valve is opposite opposite..."

I think it was oil. Reads like the angle allowed oil in from the breather and didn't allow it to drain.

 

[WarnerD9]

"Breather is located on top of the head closest to the driver. Drain valve is opposite opposite..."

I think it was oil. Reads like the angle allowed oil in from the breather and didn't allow it to drain.

I was referring to post # 111. It made it through a very deep water hole that the guy following me with a snorkel got stuck and did over $8k worth of damage to his truck. I was fortunate then, did not get stuck and did no damage. I took it to the dealer to have it checked out to make sure it didn't ingest any water or do any damage. It checked out then and it did when they tore it all down so… Should be good.

 

[Jhalko]

Yeah, I guess I left out some important details. Toyota really stepped up and I had no out of pocket expenses. They covered labor, a new short block and four valves that had been bent. Like I said I am very fortunate, I really appreciate what Toyota and the dealer did for me.

Wow, simply amazing, I'm so impressed at what you do in your truck, I guess you really did find the limits.

I think I'll skip that trail while I'm in Moab next week. :fear:

My mostly stock truck will enjoy some mild gravel roads and I'll hike the hard stuff. Haha

 

[WarnerD9]

Wow, simply amazing, I'm so impressed at what you do in your truck, I guess you really did find the limits.

I think I'll skip that trail while I'm in Moab next week. :fear:

My mostly stock truck will enjoy some mild gravel roads and I'll hike the hard stuff. Haha

Noooo… don't confine yourself your amazingly capable rig to only gravel roads. You can do so much more. I made mistakes, pushed the limits, etc.

This is why I was afraid of posting this. There's no reason to assume that what happened to me will happen to you. In both instances I varied from the intended path. Don't limit yourself man. They've taken Jeep patriots through that same trail and obstacle. I wasn't paying attention…

My heart will be broken if stuff like this leads people to stick to the pavement which leads the engineers to build more unibody vehicles which leads more people to stick to the pavement which leads to them eliminating body on frame vehicles. You see where I'm going and I'm not trying to pin this on you. It seems that I am at fault.

Please please please, go and see what you can do and don't deprive yourself. This is the first major incident that I've ever had where I couldn't drive the vehicle home on its own power.

Yes things may break or get damaged occasionally, but 9 times out of ten it is driver error. I've found that proper mods can bring it down to 9.99999999/10 if you do it right and know your limits. Sometimes you've got to push them. Enough ranting, just please don't throw in the towel, you'll miss out on so much.

 

[chmura]

Great post by WarnerD9 ^^^

Here is the same trail that a Ford Wagon 4x4 went through.

Ford Club Wagon Quigley 4x4 at Hells Revenge MOAB, UTAH 2008 Easter Jeep Safari - YouTube

If you really want to get crazy there is Mickey's Hot Tub to try. This one is walking distance from the one that WarnerD9's got stuck in. I saw that one personally last year and man its like a vertical wall. I could not even climb it with my own feet. Amazing that some rigs get out of this thing.

Subaru in Mickey's Hot Tub Moab - YouTube

I personally think there is some kind of engineering flaw with the 5th gen V6 as the Subaru in the video is near vertical and doing WOT and got out of there with engine running.

[MENTION=77684]WarnerD9[/MENTION] I really hope Toyota engineers tell you how to prevent this in the future. Or tell you something at least. Your experience could lead to a revision of this engine in the future.

 

[Jhalko]

Noooo… don't confine yourself your amazingly capable rig to only gravel roads. You can do so much more. I made mistakes, pushed the limits, etc.

This is why I was afraid of posting this. There's no reason to assume that what happened to me will happen to you. In both instances I varied from the intended path. Don't limit yourself man. They've taken Jeep patriots through that same trail and obstacle. I wasn't paying attention…

My heart will be broken if stuff like this leads people to stick to the pavement which leads the engineers to build more unibody vehicles which leads more people to stick to the pavement which leads to them eliminating body on frame vehicles. You see where I'm going and I'm not trying to pin this on you. It seems that I am at fault.

Please please please, go and see what you can do and don't deprive yourself. This is the first major incident that I've ever had where I couldn't drive the vehicle home on its own power.

Yes things may break or get damaged occasionally, but 9 times out of ten it is driver error. I've found that proper mods can bring it down to 9.99999999/10 if you do it right and know your limits. Sometimes you've got to push them. Enough ranting, just please don't throw in the towel, you'll miss out on so much.

Honestly I have done more difficult trails in the past in jeeps but I didn't care about them, I love my 4runner so much I'm not ready to push it very far and scratch it up. At some point I will and since a new suspension is on order it may be sooner rather then later. But even with an upgraded suspension I wouldn't try to find limits as I enjoy mostly just getting into the backcountry and camping in solitude more then rock crawling and such. Your story doesn't dissuade me from doing anything, it's just a reminder that bad things can happen sometimes and to be prepared for it, and since I'll be in Moab alone with my wife, no reason to get myself stranded! That's just me personally, I appreciate seeing someone push it to the point of breaking, we can all learn from it, even toyota!

As I read through the whole story I found anyone blaming you to be short sighted as everyone ignored all the things you did RIGHT, like not being out there alone and having proper recovery gear for starters. I realize anything can go wrong and sometimes there are things you might do to contribute but having things in place for those events puts you in position to deal with it.

 

[jbstrd]

Hey [MENTION=91899]Jhalko[/MENTION] I will be in Moab next week for Cruise Moab. I will be running Hells Revenge on Saturday with a buddy, not with a group. Apparently DNR won't let large groups run certain obstacles on Hells Revenge. I like to do Escalator and Hells Gate, so that is why we run it alone. You are more than welcome to tag along with us if you are in town Saturday. Hells revenge is a trail where you can bypass most obstacles if you don't feel comfortable doing them. I will be in my Tacoma, not the 4Runner.

 

[jrandom]

Yeah, I guess I left out some important details. Toyota really stepped up and I had no out of pocket expenses. They covered labor, a new short block and four valves that had been bent. Like I said I am very fortunate, I really appreciate what Toyota and the dealer did for me.

Mark Miller Toyota has always been good to me. Nothing as extreme as an engine replacement but various other 3rd gen repairs and at a more reasonable than most dealers price.

 

[Narkhelek]

I'll agree that Mark Miller is the best dealership I've dealt with. Their prices are pretty reasonably. I actually ran into [MENTION=77684]WarnerD9[/MENTION] at Mark Miller where he told me this story. I'm glad he decided to share it with the forum as I knew everyone would get a kick out of it.

 

[whodat]

My heart will be broken if stuff like this leads people to stick to the pavement

Please please please, go and see what you can do and don't deprive yourself.

I like your spirit of adventure! :guitar2: