Weight and lack of power

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Thebeastlives

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I have a 3 rd gen 4 runner which I've now had for years. It has been through 3 sons and my brother and survived. Now that I did on the big maintenance on it I want to turn it into an overlander. The problem is that after a 1500 mile trip from Tucson and through California and back I realized that with all the added weight the power and fuel economy sucks big time. The truck for years has been driven around tucson which is flat and power is not a big deal. It avg around 18 to 20 mpg . Driving to San Diego I think I got 14 mpg and it was tough to run 75 mph in the wind and up the slight incline on the 8. What is it that you 3rd gen overlanders or offroaders are doing to handle this power fuel issue on this 190 hp vehicle? I seriously am thinking bout either just using my 2019 Trd forerunner for my overlander or turbo charging the 96. I like the idea of adding a turbo but I definitely want to maintain the reliability of the vehicle since having issues a 1000 miles from home sucks.
 

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Two things that could help. Especially if you're running bigger tires, gearing. Not sure exactly what your setup is, but you either have 4.10 or 4.30 now, stepping up to 4.56 or 4.88 could make the difference for you power wise, but won't necessarily help with economy. There's also the relatively maintenance free option of a supercharger in stock form. 4-5psi can make the difference in what you feel for power.

At the end of the day though, don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed. Do my 4runners make the best 80mph freeway cruisers? No. Are they fast enough to outrun literally anybody from a dig? Probably not. But, do they have enough power to get out of their own way and get me to my destination? Yep.

Sent from my JSN-L23 using Tapatalk
 
My take on it has been to concentrate on keeping the weight and wind resistance down. It's a pretty drivable vehicle in stock form, it just doesn't have a lot of overhead in the performance department.
 
First, the newer truck won't get any better gas mileage...

Keep it under 70mph if you are looking for fuel economy, and take off that roof rack unless it is full of stuff.

A supercharger is your best bet for reliable power, though gears are also a good idea if you have bumped up your tire size.

-Charlie
 
Do what millions* of people have done in other cars - LS swap it!

I recently completed(ish) a turbo LS 6 spd manual swap into my old Volvo station wagon. It's a real hoot to drive.

I checked and found an adapter kit to bolt an LS engine up to my 99's R150F manual trans.

I'm mostly just kidding about this as a solution to your issue. I have added a bunch of weight and taller tires to my 4Runner, it's def. slower than it used to be, and (indicated) MPG has suffered as well. It's just the nature of what it is, an old truck with a bunch of new stuff bolted onto it. I don't expect too much out of it. It's not dangerously or annoyingly slow, even going up mountains in Colorado at altitude.

*-only a slight exaggeration
 
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I've driven my 2000 4runner up I 70 west through the rocky mountains a lot and you can feel the lack of power but overdrive off and it keeps up so you get used to it, that is until you drive a friends supercharged, 7the injector, meth, up the pass and it feels like a rocket compared to stock. His 1999 has 270k + miles on it and has not had any reliability issues.
 
I supercharged mine back in 2011 and never looked back. Even the V8 4Runners feel slow, particularly at altitude, by comparison.

My fuel economy changed by less than 0.5 MPG ( I still get 19 MPG highway even with a lift and big tires.) Downside is the need to run premium fuel.

I can't recommend it enough.
 
Supercharger

The setup is stock with stock size tires until I figure out the power issue. So the SC option has worked out for many of you and it seems like you have not sacrificed fuel economy much. I will definitely take a look into the different SC options. The roof rack and other additional weight has to stay because if I make it into an overlander the additional gear is a must. I do have a guy that built a pre runner and twin turbo charged his Taco and that thing is insane to drive. Great hwy power fuel economy is over 23 mpg as long as he drives normal. The 3.4 motor in my 96 with 314,000 miles runs fabulous when it isnt loaded up. I do like the idea doing a good turbo or sc mod on this truck as long as i can keep it very reliable
 
Thebeastlives said:
The setup is stock with stock size tires until I figure out the power issue. So the SC option has worked out for many of you and it seems like you have not sacrificed fuel economy much. I will definitely take a look into the different SC options. The roof rack and other additional weight has to stay because if I make it into an overlander the additional gear is a must. I do have a guy that built a pre runner and twin turbo charged his Taco and that thing is insane to drive. Great hwy power fuel economy is over 23 mpg as long as he drives normal. The 3.4 motor in my 96 with 314,000 miles runs fabulous when it isnt loaded up. I do like the idea doing a good turbo or sc mod on this truck as long as i can keep it very reliable
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If you want to turbo it be prepared to fabricate most of what you need. There aren't any turbocharger kits for 3.4 4Runners or even exhaust manifolds for a turbo that I'm aware of. You'll also need to add fuel management and tuning if you go that way. Our ECM's are barely sufficient for a supercharger with the stock pulley. Good luck.
 
JohnMc said:
Do what millions* of people have done in other cars - LS swap it!

I recently completed(ish) a turbo LS 6 spd manual swap into my old Volvo station wagon. It's a real hoot to drive.

I checked and found an adapter kit to bolt an LS engine up to my 99's R150F manual trans.

I'm mostly just kidding about this as a solution to your issue. I have added a bunch of weight and taller tires to my 4Runner, it's def. slower than it used to be, and (indicated) MPG has suffered as well. It's just the nature of what it is, an old truck with a bunch of new stuff bolted onto it. I don't expect too much out of it. It's not dangerously or annoyingly slow, even going up mountains in Colorado at altitude.

*-only a slight exaggeration
Click to expand...
Is this the kit you're referring to? Toyota Hilux LS1 V8 engine conversion - 4Runner / Surf I've looked into it as well, but haven't been able to determine what year's R150 have the 160mm input shaft that the kit says it needs.
 
Bad Luck said:
Is this the kit you're referring to? Toyota Hilux LS1 V8 engine conversion - 4Runner / Surf I've looked into it as well, but haven't been able to determine what year's R150 have the 160mm input shaft that the kit says it needs.
Click to expand...

I think I saw one on Advance Adapters (pause, google: 712561V : Toyota Truck R150 & R151F, V6 Manual Transmission to GM 4.3 V6 / 350 Adapter Bell Housing Kit. | Advance Adapters ) but I wasn't seriously looking.

My general impression is that the 160mm shafts are the earlier transmissions, usually found behind a 3.0, and the 190 is the version found behind the 3.4, so not really going to work here. Kind of makes sense, people are a lot more anxious to swap those than the 3.4.

I wasn't seriously looking, at all, just a moment's idle curiosity. Yes, they exist, and I never even bothered to read the fine print.
 
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Are u monitoring ur trans temps?

As I built my "overlander" and my mpg went down I found the best way to increase said was by changing my driving habits, 65 mph (auto, 4:30 gears, 32.7" tires currently) I have found is the sweet spot. I like the 3rd gen because of its size, which allows me to get around in the back country easily, but I also like having my creature comforts and being self sufficient which means carrying a lot of gear, water, tools, parts, food, recovery gear, etc.

What type of weight r u talking about?

I am pretty sure i have one of the heaviest 3rd gens on here (my build is an overland/rock crawler) and I get 15.5mpg hwy and have decent pwr driving Calorado's mtn passes and do not have a SC, yet (I meant to spell it that way). As i added weight I also felt i didn't have enough pwr, I found myself struggling to get up mtn passes even with WOT. What I was doing was overheating the trans, getting heat soak, which in turn would heat up the engine, the oil, coolant, etc... all of which as u know are not good, and lossing the pwr I was after. Point being is the issue is not the 3.4L pwr (assuming its health), it is getting the pwr that the engine can produce to the wheels. Where I started was by identifying and figuring out how to remove as much parasitic drain from the system as i could.

I started by getting a way to monitor my transmission temps so I could better understand the heating issue. To get my trans temp in check and restore factory function and reliability I rebuilt/modded my valve body with the transGo kit and the sonnax o-ring end plug kit. Swapped the transmission oil pump 4 a Lexus v8 pump with 11.7mm gear vs the 9.5mm 4runner gear. (dont quote me mm just what i recall off the top of my head). I removed my trans fluid air cooled cooler from going into the bottom of the radiator (I know peeps will try to say this is a trans fluid cooler, but it is not, its a trans fluid warming to bring said fluid up to optimal running temps quickly. I don't want to get into a lengthy explanation as the subject has been thoroughly beaten to death on this site). Furthermore, I added an idiot light to visual know when TC lockup was occurring, IMO i many peeps r confusing the OD kicking on/off for when they think TC lock up is occurring. The ability to visible know when lockup is occurring has further changed my driving habits and allowed me to regulate trans temps better. Using the TC light and in my case (2000 model yr) OBDII trans temp info I can drive my fat overweight 4runner up and down mtn passes and go wheeling with a good amount of pwr and mpg by not overheating the whole system... For further cooling while wheeling I have made some other mods but these r not necessary 4 hwy uses.

There r some other things I could add but guessing i have rambled enough 4 this reply.
 
Thebeastlives said:
The setup is stock with stock size tires until I figure out the power issue. So the SC option has worked out for many of you and it seems like you have not sacrificed fuel economy much. I will definitely take a look into the different SC options. The roof rack and other additional weight has to stay because if I make it into an overlander the additional gear is a must. I do have a guy that built a pre runner and twin turbo charged his Taco and that thing is insane to drive. Great hwy power fuel economy is over 23 mpg as long as he drives normal. The 3.4 motor in my 96 with 314,000 miles runs fabulous when it isnt loaded up. I do like the idea doing a good turbo or sc mod on this truck as long as i can keep it very reliable
Click to expand...

Yeah the turbo builds make some serious power, but only at very high RPM's. Adding turbos, replacing the stock ECU with an aftermarket standalone, increasing oil usage & all that don't make it reliable, it does quite the opposite. The Magnuson supercharger kit however is very simple to install (read as, it doesn't modify the engine hardly at all) so keeps as much stock as possible and keeps the engine reliable.

Owning a supercharged vehicle that's been boosted since day one, it does wear faster than a stock engine. But that was after 200,000 miles of it!
 
gamefreakgc said:
Yeah the turbo builds make some serious power, but only at very high RPM's. Adding turbos, replacing the stock ECU with an aftermarket standalone, increasing oil usage & all that don't make it reliable, it does quite the opposite. The Magnuson supercharger kit however is very simple to install (read as, it doesn't modify the engine hardly at all) so keeps as much stock as possible and keeps the engine reliable.

Owning a supercharged vehicle that's been boosted since day one, it does wear faster than a stock engine. But that was after 200,000 miles of it!
Click to expand...

That isn't true turbos can and do make power at low rpms and thru out the power band of the engine. They can be a way to make cars or trucks more fuel efficient especially at the lower rpm range or make big power at the high rpm. I have several turbo cars that are more fuel efficient the their aspirated or super charged counterpar but still make more power under the same PSi. I just don't know if boost of any type is the way I want to go on this old SUV. Maybe simply reducing weight, adding an intake system/exhaust mod and leaving stock size tires will be ok
 
You can do one or the other with a turbo (early spool, low end torque vs. high RPM spool and peak HP dyno glory) - it's really, really hard to do both. You usually just end up with a midrange compromise.

And I don't mean that in a bad way.

Some OEM's can science their way around the conundrum of a small turbo vs. a big turbo with variable gate/geometry/vane/etc turbos - they can act sort of like a smaller turbo when they need to spool up, and then once making boost they can open up and really let it flor for high RPM power. But you're generally not going to get anything that involved in an aftermarket turbo kit.

As for intake/exhaust mods - feel free to try, but it's my impression that Toyota didn't really leave a lot of untapped HP laying on the table, choked down with restrictive intakes or exhausts. I think you can certainly make it sound snortier, but I don't think you're going to get much in the way of actual real world horse powers from stuff like that.
 
Intake

Well I had the shop install the intake yesterday and my guy said it had an 8 hp increase on the dyno. Didn't really get into it with him because I know until the magnum flow exhaust comes and is installed it probably would not be noticeable anyways. But I did drive it today and getting on the fwy it does accelerate a little better. Passing on the street at 50 mphs it definitely has more power. Passing at 70+ nothing noticeable. It is still a dog but it is a better dog and not bad for a 25 year old car with 314,000 miles. I would never use it tow anything, even my can am x3 would be too much for it but as a decent get up and go around the town SUV it has improved. I might take it on a ski trip this year when the exhaust is installed just to see if it handling the mtn hills better
 
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