Welding frame holes

[Moist]

I should start this by saying I have never as much as touched welding before. Let alone working on an auto frame.
Although I will need to soon, as the frame rail on the right side of my vehicle is corroding into nothingness. And no shop is going to want to touch that frame. This is the biggest issue so far when it comes to bringing this 4runner back to life, and the frame in general is the largest part of the "restoration".
I'm thinking that welding plates over the holes might be the best option. I don't have the money to buy chunks of a frame, or frame caps.
How exactly would one go about that? Where does one start with welding?

Any input is appreciated.

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[Moist]

Should also mention that it's really only this right half of the vehicle that is bad. The rest has rust sure, but, it's only surface and can be knocked off and repainted.

 

[JBR14]

In looking at that, not sure if welding plates on top will do much. Unless the bad parts are cut off and treated, it wont stop. It will just keep taking over. Welding something that would work near that body mount / track bar would be challenging unless you just stick weld something in the holes. However, I am not a welder, so I could be 1000% wrong.

 

[Moist]

In looking at that, not sure if welding plates on top will do much. Unless the bad parts are cut off and treated, it wont stop. It will just keep taking over. Welding something that would work near that body mount / track bar would be challenging unless you just stick weld something in the holes. However, I am not a welder, so I could be 1000% wrong.

That makes sense. I'm thinking hitting the whole frame with a wire brush on a drill to knock the paint and rust off, then welding the holes/worrisome areas, then repaint the frame and fill the inside of the frame with foam that should dissolve the rust and prevent future rust.
The body mount will definitely be tough.
Thank you for the response!

 

[MikeinNH67]

Those areas of rot are definitely a challenge as you have tough areas to clean and reach. These generally rot from the inside so what you see is the tip of the iceberg so to speak. From what I've seen of the rust I've fixed on mine, a hole the size of a dime ends up being 3" x 6" once you get back to solid metal. You can't weld to metal that is rusted, the rust just blows away. The good thing is the metal, when prepped properly, is pretty easy to weld to. It is about an 1/8" thick so as long as you use similar thickness mild steel you can learn pretty quickly, thin sheet metal is a bit tougher. A decent 110volt wire feed welder with quality welding wire is all it takes. Welding upside down is not so easy though. If this is really something you want to do, buy a welder and practice on metal that is similar thickness. Used welders are fine just don't go too low quality of a brand and pass on stick welders.

My video below gives you an idea of what you are up against on an easier location as it is flat but I still tough as it's upside down. The hole was pretty small when I found it but after some tapping with a pointy hammer I found it was not so small.

03 4Runner Frame Rust Repair! - YouTube

 

[MikeinNH67]

So I looked at this closer and it looks like 2 of the pictures are from the same area. If you really need this car to last a while I would save up for one of the caps below assuming that's the correct one. It will cover both spots.

You really need to check the rest of the frame first though. Front by the tow points, back corners behind the plastic bumper and anywhere else that looks soft. Usually at the bottom of the frame arches.

Mid Frame Section w/ Trailing Arm Mount (ART-202-R) Passenger Side - autorust.com

 

[thegame7]

MikeinNH pretty much covered it. Keep in mind the new plates you weld in will be uncoated on the inside. Once in place, the issue will keep happening unless you live in a dry area or are able to paint the inside of the frame. It will definitely buy you more time with the rig though.

 

[rdruss]

Toyota sells a plastic plug kit for the frame, p/n 04002-07104, for about $25.
I have it and plan on installing them with RTV to weather proof them in place. My frame has two plates welded in below passenger side front door at $1K cost ... not cheap unless you can weld yourself.

 

[AuSeeker]

Toyota sells a plastic plug kit for the frame, p/n 04002-07104, for about $25.
I have it and plan on installing them with RTV to weather proof them in place. My frame has two plates welded in below passenger side front door at $1K cost ... not cheap unless you can weld yourself.

I wonder why if Toyota thought it was a good idea to offer this plug kit, why didn't they just install these plugs from the factory??

It would be a great idea to do it when the frame is still new but after the insides gets filled with water and road salts and all kinds of other debris it would be kinda of a little too late!!!

That being said, that kit is now over $40-$45

 

[snowboardwcu]

safeTcap is the way to go. i did my whole passenger side about a year and half ago and then re-coated the end product with rustoleum again. absolutely no issues since. $2200 for the side. i would do the driver side but its getting ready to be sold here soon.

 

[ran]

Dealership Parts guy was happy with a Toyota number to look up. He said it was on the East Coast and $60+ to ship to me.
Any other options to try??
__________________
2007 SE V6 Titanium less than 50K

 

[Moist]

I wonder why if Toyota thought it was a good idea to offer this plug kit, why didn't they just install these plugs from the factory??

It would be a great idea to do it when the frame is still new but after the insides gets filled with water and road salts and all kinds of other debris it would be kinda of a little too late!!!

That being said, that kit is now over $40-$45

Makes you wonder if maybe toyota knew about the frames beforehand. I'll pick up those frame plugs once I get it together this summer.

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[aemravan]

sorry...from the few pictures of the body mount/link mount this is on the verge of failing as-is and I'm struggling seeing being able to easily save this... you're certainly not just welding some plates over top of any of this.. you're looking at having to cut out and remake those portions of frame.. honestly.. if this was mine and I wanted to save the rig long term, I would probably be searching for a totaled 4th gen you can swap the frame off of.. hour wise you're probably not far between the amount of work between the 2

 

[missionman]

2 answers for you even though this is an older post but still relevant now.

IF YOU WELD on your 4th gen 4runner frame which is 1/8 thick steel you ONLY use 3/32 7018 rods, 85-90 amps, hot start +7, Arc Force +5, background current 70%, 2 hz - literally drag the rod on the frame steady but slow creating weld pools overlapping each other as you go for proper deposition. you dont want to blow holes in the frame so practice on 1/8 steel plate if needed. Start at 85 amps. youll likely find 90 is better if you have a good machine because it burns almost all the way into 1/8 which is great but again, you dont want to blow holes.

You CAN use 1/8 size rods but its unnecessary and risky unless you're experienced and that would change all the perimeters I gave above for 3/32 sized rods. you can easily blow holes in 1/8 steel with 1/8 rods. stick with 3/32 on the 4runner frame.

OTHERWISE there is a company that MAKES every part of your 4runner frame at rustbuster.com who sell frame repair kits for 3rd and 4th gen 4runners and other models and manufacturers.

Rust Buster Frame Repair Kits For 2003-2009 Toyota 4Runner

 

[Parks Junkie]

I should start this by saying I have never as much as touched welding before. Let alone working on an auto frame.

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Welding isn't rocket science, but it's not slingin' burgers either. It is, and rightfully so, a skilled trade. Maybe you can carry it off, but do you really want frame work your first job?

Depending on the shape of the body of course, but it sounds like you're in a situation of needing a new frame. Junkyards, DIY junkyards, etc. I would look there before trying to patch yours, especially if you have no welding experience.

Especially if you don't have welding experience, puddles, flow, etc, I think you want to look for the wrench, not the torch.

 

[triethylborane]

Welding isn't rocket science, but it's not slingin' burgers either. It is, and rightfully so, a skilled trade. Maybe you can carry it off, but do you really want frame work your first job?

Very true. I welded up the frame on my 03, some flat areas and a few areas that had more complex curvatures, took a few days with prep, cutting, fitment, more fitment, then finally welding, grinding, welding etc. Its doable, I think it came out pretty good, looks wise its not great, but the grinder took care of it.

Did plenty of protective steps with some Eastwood products after, has held up fine after nearly three years.

I had the benefit of a lift, I would not have attempted without it.

I also realized that while I had protected everything but my feet, some old tennis shoes are not going to do anything when the embers drop, makes for some interesting scars but definitely an amateur move. Welding is something I do when the need arises, so I tend to rush things.

 

[Moist]

Welding isn't rocket science, but it's not slingin' burgers either. It is, and rightfully so, a skilled trade. Maybe you can carry it off, but do you really want frame work your first job?

Depending on the shape of the body of course, but it sounds like you're in a situation of needing a new frame. Junkyards, DIY junkyards, etc. I would look there before trying to patch yours, especially if you have no welding experience.

Especially if you don't have welding experience, puddles, flow, etc, I think you want to look for the wrench, not the torch.

I agree, I'll be paying someone to do it when the time comes.

For now I'm getting rods installed in the frame to try and get a little bit longer out of it.

I do plan to restore this car in the far future, but it will need a new frame entirely. I've been thinking about a custom tube frame, but I haven't decided yet.

Thank ya'll!

 

[rdruss]

I agree, I'll be paying someone to do it when the time comes.

For now I'm getting rods installed in the frame to try and get a little bit longer out of it.

I do plan to restore this car in the far future, but it will need a new frame entirely. I've been thinking about a custom tube frame, but I haven't decided yet.

Thank ya'll!

Frame replacement or tube frame, either will be an exciting project, keep us posted!

 

[DK327]

I'm dealing with this right now; took the vehicle in to get an undercoat only to discover a hole in the frame which they said should be addressed 1st, if I wanted to keep this vehicle for a while. I mentioned to them that I had a timing belt/water pump job at my mechanic next week and they said to have them relocate the AC drain lines to mitigate some of the rust caused by that:

//imgur.com/a/4TPAmbF

Took the vehicle to a frame repair shop after that appointment and they quoted me $700 to get it patched. Didn't find any other holes. I assume they'll cut out the cancer and weld a new plate on. After that, the undercoat will be something the detail shop calls "Undergone" which is: "Built for vehicles that already show surface rust or live in heavy salt and brine. Undergone™ is a rust-converting, soft-barrier undercoating that chemically stabilizes existing rust and forms a protective, self-healing film — so you're treating the problem, not just covering it."

The process:

Heated Hotsy prep wash to remove road grime, salt residue, and contaminants
Full disassembly and masking — spare tire, underbody panels, and wheel well liners removed and reinstalled; exterior and sensitive components protected
Light descaling and surface prep as needed for proper coverage
Internal cavity protection in frame sections, subframes, and internal crevices
Full underbody treatment with Undergone™, then reassembly

What you get:

Rust-converting formula that stabilizes existing surface rust
Self-healing soft barrier that blocks moisture, road salt, and brine
Bonds directly to metal for lasting adhesion
Every service logged to CARFAX
Pre- and post-service photos at every visit

Ideal for: vehicles with existing surface rust, vehicles exposed to frequent salt and brine, and owners who prefer a soft-barrier protection system.

That'll be $1200 including deep clean and is a multi-day process and should last for years, so they said. They have a great rep and work on 4runners and tacomas all the time, so even though it's not cheap, I intend to keep this vehicle for a while...

 

[DK327]

Update: I just picked the vehicle up from frame shop - it ended up costing $650, they said it was more extensive than it 1st appeared but they got it done and put some undercoating over on that side for good measure, although I'm still going to get the whole belly done like I had wanted - just made an appt for the 30th to drop the vehicle off to get it undercoated.

In some of the images, you can see the tip of the AC drain hose extension that I put up this past weekend. Before that, it was draining right on that section of the frame that rotted out; the original owner could have spent $6 and 5 mins to extend the hose to save me from having to spend $650! Oh well...

//imgur.com/a/mXb2dH5