Went in for 90K, came out with...

[BlackWorksInc]

I think it's time to again post this. STAY far AWAY from the TOYOTA DEALERS STEALER NON SERVICE DEPT.S. Them CV Boots are torn are the oldest SCAM used by them monkeys. Water pump leaking? do you see anything like it leaking? Trust me when one is failing you see something.
Find a good local garage to deal with and do as i have done for years, change your own oil and filter it's a simple job.:banana:

You realize that independent shops are not exempt from the same issues that plague "stealerships" and that the real culprit is more the automotive repair industry?

Not to mention "Torn CV Boots" are not exactly a "scam" since the J120 platform seems to suffer from loosening clamps and as they age tears in the CV boots (typically just behind the small diameter clamps as I mentioned before). The real "scam" if any is selling a customer a new $600+ CV Axle or lesser quality aftermarket one when all it needs is a reboot.

Hi [MENTION=100496]blackworks[/MENTION], always good to hear from a pro, but you may have missed that my 08 is a v6, not a v8. How does that change your opinion of the water pump issue and the 7 quart oil change? As for the cabin air filter, I check it before every oil change, and am able to go more than a year without needing it changed, so I thought them claiming it was dirty in 2 weeks was pure dealer theft.

Ah I missed that, the V6 pumps seem to hold up a bit longer than the V8's do (at least from a leaking/seeping standpoint). They are also easier to watch for leaks as they are exposed on the front of the block, just watch for pink crust/dribbles (if it gets that bad) forming under the pump pulley (at the weephole) or under the mating surface as that will indicate a leak forming. The nice thing is the V6's are a breeze to replace relatively speaking in comparison to the V8's.

As for 7qts in a 4.0L 1GR-FE, that's way too much; at most they take around 5.5qts.

 

[wadle5]

While I do respect what BW is saying about giving the tech ample time for repair. The reality as always it comes down to costs. The Manufacturer doesn't pay standard rate and also discounts the time frame. My argument would be the techs who only do warranty work all the time(which as you stated is a double edge sword) where they clearly milk the clock and easily breeze through a job in half the alotted time.

 

[m85476585]

Not to mention "Torn CV Boots" are not exactly a "scam" since the J120 platform seems to suffer from loosening clamps and as they age tears in the CV boots (typically just behind the small diameter clamps as I mentioned before). The real "scam" if any is selling a customer a new $600+ CV Axle or lesser quality aftermarket one when all it needs is a reboot.

Maybe the scam is that they crawl around parking lots loosening CV boots at night when no one is looking. If they do it enough it becomes a common problem, so no one questions it. Then they make money on the repairs!

 

[GHARP57]

I would not replace the CV axles at all. When I was working retail counter and the service counter for 3 years (I'm in wholesale now), Lazy technicians would replace the axle, the ones who didnt want to sell a shitty aftermarket one would reboot it and re grease it. the boot kit is like 60-80 bucks its just the labor time goes up since it takes a little longer to do than throw a new axle in.

 

[Ralph Blake]

When in the service i worked part time at both a Firestone and Good Year service centers, i watched the front end mechanics use every trick they knew to push shocks struts break jobs alinement's.
Mostly it was a service many wife who had brought the cars in. They would tell the women call your husbands tell them how dangerous it is to have them and your children being driven in a death trap.
99 times it worked like magic made the mechanic money made the center money. Did these people really need the work....no even a small amout.

Today things are the same it's all about making money, and unless you are really on top of things you will get taken.lane:

 

[Erkelbot]

Making SOME money is fine. It's for profit -- I get it. Just be respectful about it...

I mean, I'm willing to give you $550 for a 90K service -- basically a glorified inspection, new spark plugs, a tire rotation, some lube, and oil (take note of that, CARFAX!) -- you can probably forego pushing the extra laborious stuff...

 

[heiser]

Considering I replaced a CV axle with a reman a few months ago for $70 + couple hours, and also rebooted the other side for $20 + couple hours last weekend, I'd never hand over 900+ for replacing CVs. That's just absurd.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Considering I replaced a CV axle with a reman a few months ago for $70 + couple hours, and also rebooted the other side for $20 + couple hours last weekend, I'd never hand over 900+ for replacing CVs. That's just absurd.

Depends on the quality of parts. Seems like the general consensus is that the non-Toyota units are not the same quality as the factory units. Many people on this forum have had "rebuilt" or "Like OEM" CV Axles break when off-roading; they do fine for on-road use. But the pattern seems to indicate you're better off rebooting a factory CV Axle if you can or replacing it with a Toyota unit or aftermarket unit like a CVJ Axle.

A factory 4th gen CV Axle is something like $500~600 "List" from a dealer, the boot kit is about $40~50 "List"; factor in the labor I mentioned earlier for one unit $195 (1.3hrs X$150), fees, and taxes it can end up being that much. Figure about $270 in labor for rebooting one side, it's a much more affordable process and keeps your factory unit (these are rough estimates based on posted labor rate/times, your mileage may vary.)

 

[heiser]

Depends on the quality of parts. Seems like the general consensus is that the non-Toyota units are not the same quality as the factory units. Many people on this forum have had "rebuilt" or "Like OEM" CV Axles break when off-roading; they do fine for on-road use. But the pattern seems to indicate you're better off rebooting a factory CV Axle if you can or replacing it with a Toyota unit or aftermarket unit like a CVJ Axle.

A factory 4th gen CV Axle is something like $500~600 "List" from a dealer, the boot kit is about $40~50 "List"; factor in the labor I mentioned earlier for one unit $195 (1.3hrs X$150), fees, and taxes it can end up being that much. Figure about $270 in labor for rebooting one side, it's a much more affordable process and keeps your factory unit (these are rough estimates based on posted labor rate/times, your mileage may vary.)

That's true. My first time I replaced the axle because it was easier, but I wish I would have just rebooted it to keep the OEM axle. However, by that time it had been torn for a while and I'm not sure if the inners had been degraded or not. Still, I rebooted the second time to keep the OEM. I'm still not sure if the OEM is worth that kind of list price though.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Just visited my local dealer for the 90K checkup and was due for an oil change. It was a couple thousand premature, but I like to stay ahead of the game.

While it was in, I got the normal You're in the yellow on brakes, tires are decent, etc... BUT, they also called to tell me that my CV boots are torn -- both of them -- and are leaking pretty bad. They said both need to be replaced in short order. They also told me that the water pump was leaking slowly, and that it's a common problem... Tally that up and we've got an extra ~$1,900 recommended in maintenance.

I'm not dumb, so I asked about the severity of the leak and CV tears. They said both should be dealt with imminently, but that the leak in the water pump was neither "pouring out" or "seeping". I think he was getting at it being really slow. I had them refill the overflow tank so I can monitor it in the interim. I know the CVs aren't "bad" until we start hearing clicking on turns, so I'm not as worried about that.

I picked it up $550 later (90K bill, sans air filters), and crawled under the truck. The CVs look gloppy and greasy, but when looking at them quickly I didn't see any tears. I wonder if I have a leaking clamp on my hands instead. I've also -- in my paranoia -- thought maybe they put that grease there themselves after I declined the repair. I am certain that I went under the truck within the last 2K miles, and I saw nothing like it. And when I was under there, I was looking closely at the suspension -- this was when I put the Bilsteins in. My father-in-law also looked things over when he was down there (he's a mechanic), and he said it all looks to be in great shape.

As for the water pump, that worried me a bit more. He said there was some crust from the leak on the pump itself. I haven't had a chance to visually inspect anything myself, but I can say I haven't smelled any coolant in the engine bay -- nor has there been any seepage under the car in the heated garage. I guess it could be leaking really slowly, but the fact that no other dealer saw this (no other Toyota dealer, which another dealer saw it 3K ago) seems suspect.

My question: Do water pumps go often with these trucks? I have read about radiators, but are the pumps problematic too? Am I being unreasonably paranoid about the requested repairs -- and how about the costs?... Seems high to me. The WP is a bit of a PITA, but the CVs is really just a mechanical swap -- right? $950 is what they line-itemed me for CVs...

I guess this stuff happens -- even with the most dependable trucks -- but this kind of stuff seems to be happening a bit early for my liking at 88K (a 2008).

The 90K service normally also includes the timing belt. Did they work that into the quote too?

I'm not sure the water pump "often" goes that early, and I find Toyota has absurd standards for what warrants replacement. A tiny seepage can fit you into the "yellow" on their scorecards, which I don't personally agree with.

On the other hand, if you plan to do the timing belt any time soon, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to have a mechanic do that AND the water pump at the same time. (I would go to a qualified, good 3rd party mechanic though -- I wouldn't go to a Toyota dealer at 2-3x the price.)

If you're not going for the timing belt now, you can probably wait until 120k or so before you really NEED to do it. Whether or not your water pump lasts that long if truly leaking is another story though...

 

[Erkelbot]

V6 -- no belt. No need to wake snakes and rip apart the front end unless that little pump is leaking.

Otherwise, I'd be in complete agreement with you...

The 90K service normally also includes the timing belt. Did they work that into the quote too?

I'm not sure the water pump "often" goes that early, and I find Toyota has absurd standards for what warrants replacement. A tiny seepage can fit you into the "yellow" on their scorecards, which I don't personally agree with.

On the other hand, if you plan to do the timing belt any time soon, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to have a mechanic do that AND the water pump at the same time. (I would go to a qualified, good 3rd party mechanic though -- I wouldn't go to a Toyota dealer at 2-3x the price.)

If you're not going for the timing belt now, you can probably wait until 120k or so before you really NEED to do it. Whether or not your water pump lasts that long if truly leaking is another story though...

 

[Erkelbot]

Yeah, it's definitely going to be a reboot instead of replacement. It'll end up being cheaper, and in general I believe in OEM part quality being superior to non-OEM (for parts like this, at least...).

Now, if my head unit died, I'd be a fool to go OEM... Aftermarket for electronics are generally FAR superior to OEM. From what I've heard, seat covers is another example where non-OEM pays off.

Depends on the quality of parts. Seems like the general consensus is that the non-Toyota units are not the same quality as the factory units. Many people on this forum have had "rebuilt" or "Like OEM" CV Axles break when off-roading; they do fine for on-road use. But the pattern seems to indicate you're better off rebooting a factory CV Axle if you can or replacing it with a Toyota unit or aftermarket unit like a CVJ Axle.

A factory 4th gen CV Axle is something like $500~600 "List" from a dealer, the boot kit is about $40~50 "List"; factor in the labor I mentioned earlier for one unit $195 (1.3hrs X$150), fees, and taxes it can end up being that much. Figure about $270 in labor for rebooting one side, it's a much more affordable process and keeps your factory unit (these are rough estimates based on posted labor rate/times, your mileage may vary.)

 

[iBison]

My water pump was just starting to weep a bit at 170 when the head gasket let go.

 

[bamma]

Yeah, it's definitely going to be a reboot instead of replacement. It'll end up being cheaper, and in general I believe in OEM part quality being superior to non-OEM (for parts like this, at least...).

Now, if my head unit died, I'd be a fool to go OEM... Aftermarket for electronics are generally FAR superior to OEM. From what I've heard, seat covers is another example where non-OEM pays off.

You can buy oem rebuilts. Napa and Autozone have them. Just physically inspect to make sure it is oem. Cost is around $80 to $90.

 

[Erkelbot]

So I took the time to take a picture of what I'm seeing on both sides of the CVs. This is what they look like (though this is jut the driver's side). My question is this: how would this CV grease accumulate like this? It looks like it was administered from above -- or was dripping from top down. Wouldn't the grease be splattered everywhere with CVs spinning -- like upward and everywhere else? This is the only place where there's grease outside of the boots themselves. This gives credence (maybe?) to the argument that the last person down there just put CV grease down there to make it appear as though the CVs were leaking after I declined the work. Does the grease look old to you guys?

Remember, this is new grease -- on both sides -- within m the last 2-3k miles...

 

[Erkelbot]

I'm going to wipe everything down later today to get a better look at the clamp and boots. That'll help to properly diagnose the issue.

 

[RonJR]

So I took the time to take a picture of what I'm seeing on both sides of the CVs. This is what they look like (though this is jut the driver's side). My question is this: how would this CV grease accumulate like this? It looks like it was administered from above -- or was dripping from top down. Wouldn't the grease be splattered everywhere with CVs spinning -- like upward and everywhere else? This is the only place where there's grease outside of the boots themselves. This gives credence (maybe?) to the argument that the last person down there just put CV grease down there to make it appear as though the CVs were leaking after I declined the work. Does the grease look old to you guys?

Remember, this is new grease -- on both sides -- within m the last 2-3k miles...

That looks pretty similar to what I just saw on mine when I worked over the inner boot this morning. The grease that is thrown out ends up behind the CV joint, because at any speed that will sling grease, the air flow is pretty strong in the rearward direction. Also, the light color of that grease indicates to me that it's mixed with water, which is an indicator that the boot is leaking and water is getting inside.

I would definitely inspect them carefully, both for cracks and for loose clamps.

 

[Erkelbot]

Closure:

Took care of this today. CV reboots (the clamps were the issue), a new water pump, a serpentine belt, and the radiator which was also crying a bit. After all of that, my friend price with my buddy's shop was $700. Not exactly the $1900 the Toyota dealership quoted me -- and that was before the radiator replacement was identified as a need.

I'll repeat: dealer services are absolute robbery for this kind of stuff.