What brake bleed sequence do you use?

[repo]

The FSM says FR, FL, RR, RL. Most people say furthest to closest so RR, RL, FR, FL. But from what I understand the front and rear and basically separate systems, there are 2 fluid compartment presumably for safety, so it shouldn't really make a difference between front or rear first?

 

[silver4est]

I've always heard RR RL FR FL, farthest from master cylinder to closest and that's the way I've always done it.

 

[JudeThaddeus]

Actually, it does matter. I tried 4 times bleeding my brakes after fixing a bad rear wheel bearing using the farthest to closest method. Every time my breaks still sucked. I then read an excerpt from the FSM that you start with the FR and move to the FL. After that, you move to the rear. All of this is done with the vehicle running and after bleeding off the power booster by pumping the brakes with the engine off before bleeding.
Know what, my brakes feel great after having crappy brakes. I actually have confidence that I'll stop while breaking now.

 

[99Runnr]

Tundra brake upgrade is semi-notorious for causing soft brake pedals. Myself included after the first bleeding. I do the standard furthest to closest method, with a twist since then.

I have my helper, push the pedal ONCE. Don't pump them up. Push, hold, open, close, push, open, close, repeat. I go through the 4 bleeders like this twice.

Just did it with a dry system, after replacing all soft lines with SS lines. Had it back to a solid pedal in 15 minutes. Works great for me.

 

[nevada]

Tundra brake upgrade is semi-notorious for causing soft brake pedals. Myself included after the first bleeding. I do the standard furthest to closest method, with a twist since then.

I have my helper, push the pedal ONCE. Don't pump them up. Push, hold, open, close, push, open, close, repeat. I go through the 4 bleeders like this twice.

Just did it with a dry system, after replacing all soft lines with SS lines. Had it back to a solid pedal in 15 minutes. Works great for me.

YES! finally someone else that knows how to do it correctly!

 

[JayRolla]

YES! finally someone else that knows how to do it correctly!

That was the only way I thought it was done!

 

[97Run-Man]

Actually, it does matter. I tried 4 times bleeding my brakes after fixing a bad rear wheel bearing using the farthest to closest method. Every time my breaks still sucked. I then read an excerpt from the FSM that you start with the FR and move to the FL. After that, you move to the rear. All of this is done with the vehicle running and after bleeding off the power booster by pumping the brakes with the engine off before bleeding.
Know what, my brakes feel great after having crappy brakes. I actually have confidence that I'll stop while breaking now.

Can you explain this a little more? I have been trying to find out how the FSM says to do it.
I get doing the front and rear separately but do you bleed them with the car on and then again with the car off? How does that work? Thank you.

 

[97 _SR5]

I use a vacuum pump and always bled furthers to closest and haven't had issues

Rafal

 

[TheDurk]

I'm a little late but there is an important fact here that everybody in this thread is missing. The older systems like my '99 bleed the rear brakes first. If you don't bleed the rears first, you can't bleed the front. See this excerpt from my '99 paper FSM:

On the other hand, the later systems bleed the front brakes first, specifically front right, front left, then the rears. See this link to the 2002 FSM:


http://www.teamtoyota4x4.org/archivio/1996%20to%202002%20Toyota%204Runner%20Repair%20and%20Wiring%20Manuals/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/02toyrm/02toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/br/braflu/blee.pdf

[Edited to provide working link as of 4/18.]


Please stop thinking that what is right for YOUR truck is right for everybody's truck. I think 2000 is the last of the old system but that's a guess.

 

[diverscale]

I'm a little late but there is an important fact here that everybody in this thread is missing. The older systems like my '99 bleed the rear brakes first. If you don't bleed the rears first, you can't bleed the front. See this excerpt from my '99 paper FSM:

Please stop thinking that what is right for YOUR truck is right for everybody's truck. I think 2000 is the last of the old system but that's a guess.

Thanks for the clarification durk

 

[2000Ltd4wd]

2000 LTD Brake booster?

Considering doing the tundra brake upgrade and obviously need to bleed the lines for that. Looking at this PDF from the FSM it talks about a hydraulic Brake booster that turns on when the ignition is on, but in my 2000 limited with ABS I only see what looks like a vacuum style brake booster and no sound is heard when ignition is turned in. Is it possible to bleed this ABS system without the scanner?

 

[HiLife]

Kinda. If you don't have air bubbles in the abs pump.
If no air made it to the abs pump, you don't need a scanner to bleed the brakes.
However if air did make it to the abs pump you'll need the abs pump to cycle, and then bleed, that's when the scanner comes in.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

Is it possible to bleed this ABS system without the scanner?

We need to be careful with terminology here, specifically "ABS system" vs "ABS pump".

You do not need a scanner to bleed an ABS equipped brake system, because the ABS pump is isolated from the rest of the hydraulic system. So you bleed your brakes as discussed above, keeping in mind the different sequences for vacuum boosters on the older trucks vs hydraulic boosters on the newer trucks.

You only need a scanner if for some reason you need to bleed the actual ABS pump. So if you somehow got air into the ABS pump, like if you replaced the ABS pump with a dry unit, then you'll need to bleed the ABS pump. But not needed under any normal circumstances.

 

[2000Ltd4wd]

We need to be careful with terminology here, specifically "ABS system" vs "ABS pump".

You do not need a scanner to bleed an ABS equipped brake system, because the ABS pump is isolated from the rest of the hydraulic system. So you bleed your brakes as discussed above, keeping in mind the different sequences for vacuum boosters on the older trucks vs hydraulic boosters on the newer trucks.

You only need a scanner if for some reason you need to bleed the actual ABS pump. So if you somehow got air into the ABS pump, like if you replaced the ABS pump with a dry unit, then you'll need to bleed the ABS pump. But not needed under any normal circumstances.

Thanks for the reply, good clarification on the ABS and the different types of boosters. So I did the swap this week and everything seemed to go fine. However when I start the car the brake pedal drops near the floor.

I assumed air in the lines and bled again with no luck. Assumed blown seal on master cylinder and so replaced that, bled thoroughly and again no luck.

When the car is not started (ignition can be on) the brake pedal feels fully engaged a few inches in and feels normal, so I suspected maybe the booster, I disconnected the Vac hose from the booster and plugged it and drove the car around the block with manual braking. The braking was obviously slightly more difficult, but the pedal and brakes were engaging with much less travel. Re-hooked up the booster and same issue the pedal travels almost all the way to the floor before the brakes engage.

Considering getting a new booster, but due to the brakes being easier to apply with it connected I don't believe it is bad, unless the connection between pedal and MC in the booster is slipping? Running out of ideas here and by the "symptoms" listed here doesn't appear to be the booster. Any ideas before I throw in the towel and take it to a shop?

Thanks

 

[gamefreakgc]

Thanks for the reply, good clarification on the ABS and the different types of boosters. So I did the swap this week and everything seemed to go fine. However when I start the car the brake pedal drops near the floor.

I assumed air in the lines and bled again with no luck. Assumed blown seal on master cylinder and so replaced that, bled thoroughly and again no luck.

When the car is not started (ignition can be on) the brake pedal feels fully engaged a few inches in and feels normal, so I suspected maybe the booster, I disconnected the Vac hose from the booster and plugged it and drove the car around the block with manual braking. The braking was obviously slightly more difficult, but the pedal and brakes were engaging with much less travel. Re-hooked up the booster and same issue the pedal travels almost all the way to the floor before the brakes engage.

Considering getting a new booster, but due to the brakes being easier to apply with it connected I don't believe it is bad, unless the connection between pedal and MC in the booster is slipping? Running out of ideas here and by the "symptoms" listed here doesn't appear to be the booster. Any ideas before I throw in the towel and take it to a shop?

Thanks

Bleed the brakes one more time with the engine running. I know that is counter to what people say for 96-00 but it's the only way I could get my brakes to bleed on the 98 fully. Give it a shot.

Also, some years have a little one-way valve on the booster vacuum hosing that I think goes to the 4WD VSV. These little guys have been know to fail once in a while and cause bad pedal feel. Easy to check them, just take it out and blow in it, air should pass through one way and not the other.

 

[phattyduck]

Also, some years have a little one-way valve on the booster vacuum hosing that I think goes to the 4WD VSV. These little guys have been know to fail once in a while and cause bad pedal feel. Easy to check them, just take it out and blow in it, air should pass through one way and not the other.

All of the vacuum booster 4Runners (2WD or 4WD) have a 1-way valve to the booster (actually, all modern vacuum boosters have valves, sometimes internal to the booster assembly). That's what holds vacuum for a couple brake applications if the engine turns off while driving.

There is a separate 1-way valve for the ADD vacuum system, that's the little black/blue thing in the vacuum line down to the ADD VSVs. There is also the vacuum reservoir in the fender well to help with ADD switching. That's only on the pre-01 4Runners.

-Charlie

 

[jack.hanks02]

2001 here - I was about to follow the advice in the first few posts, but I'm wondering if those are specific to 96-00?

I cannot find a definitive method for my '01 without buying or making bleeding tools.

Thanks

 

[msimcoe]

Took your suggestion and it seemed to work for me.

Actually, it does matter. I tried 4 times bleeding my brakes after fixing a bad rear wheel bearing using the farthest to closest method. Every time my breaks still sucked. I then read an excerpt from the FSM that you start with the FR and move to the FL. After that, you move to the rear. All of this is done with the vehicle running and after bleeding off the power booster by pumping the brakes with the engine off before bleeding.
Know what, my brakes feel great after having crappy brakes. I actually have confidence that I'll stop while breaking now.

I had the same problem as you did so I took your suggestion and it seemed to work for me too. It makes sense to start from the front with the engine running as the fluid will be moving through the master cylinder and ABS pump first so if you have any air in the ABS or Master it should be expelled first through the front brakes rather than having to make the long trip to the back brakes and possibly not making it out the bleeder valve if not enough fluid was moved. At least it seems like it to me. Some OBDII code readers will cycle the ABS and bleed the brakes for you but, that function is not supported on the 3rd Gens.

 

[TheDurk]

2001 here - I was about to follow the advice in the first few posts, but I'm wondering if those are specific to 96-00?

I cannot find a definitive method for my '01 without buying or making bleeding tools.

Thanks

Read the thread, specifically my post #9. Yours will be the same as the 2002 FSM I linked.