Ducmonsta
New member
Will 285s rub? :rofl:
Congrats, Greg! I'm VERY interested in your thoughts as I think the Tacoma will be in our family soon as well.
What did 1Engineer buy?
- Thread starter 03_4x4Runner
- Start date
Will 285s rub? :rofl:
Congrats, Greg! I'm VERY interested in your thoughts as I think the Tacoma will be in our family soon as well.
Glandnut
New member
Do yourself a solid and go take a dip in one of the springs in the area off 19 and 40. Silver Glen, Salt Springs, and Juniper are a few....it's hot as balls and these are perfect this time of year!
Exact same here. Had one priced and on it's way from another dealership after one test drive because let's face it - it's one beautiful machine.
While waiting I test drove, then again, and again. All with worse results than before in the powertrain, no guts IMO. Kicked down into 4th on simple grades. Too much shifting going on even with the newest trans mapping (download).
The 4R, while not too refined itself, was still better.
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] - if you have big plans for it as your last 4Runner, any chance you'd consider a build thread here, or a link if you do elsewhere? I don't think anyone would be opposed if you did one here...!
Has anyone re-geared the 3rd gens yet? I would imagine, and also would suspect that could address some disappointments have for the down low power - albeit sacrificing a little fuel mileage.
Has anyone re-geared the 3rd gens yet? I would imagine, and also would suspect that could address some disappointments have for the down low power - albeit sacrificing a little fuel mileage.
1engineer
Moderator
5th Gen 4Runner/3rd Gen Tacoma Review
5th Gen 4Runner versus the 3rd Gen Tacoma – Who wins?
This article compares a 4WD 4Runner SR5 against the 4WD Tacoma TRD Sport Double Cab short box. There are options that can be had with either model that will enhance the vehicle but, for this comparison, let’s just keep it simple. Also, unless it is fact, everything is my opinion and *gasp* you might not agree!
So you have already decided that options such as minivans and CUVs, even though they are much more practical and efficient, bore you. You are an enthusiast that is either going or dreaming of going off road dammit! You want comparative highway comfort and the ability to go off road! You also want the durability and reliability that Toyota offers, not to mention the best residual value after three years out of any vehicle! Problem is, you have narrowed your choices down to two: The 3rd gen Tacoma and the 5th Gen 4Runner and you just can’t make up your mind. Well, hopefully the following article will help you decide.
Pro Tip #1:
No matter what vehicle you decide to get, don’t let the internet forums decide for you! Actually, the internet forums are probably the WORST place you can go to glean any meaningful information. Sure, if you are discussing mods, colors and tires, this is the place to do so. If you truly want an unbiased opinion or you need technical help such as warranty or such, go to people like the dealer or directly to Toyota proper. If you want reviews, go to Edmunds or Car and Driver. That is their job and they are much better at it than a forum guy, including me. You see, it seems like whenever somebody buys a vehicle, something snaps and, even though they are an Ancient Latin teacher in real life, buying that vehicle automatically makes them an expert in every facet of that vehicle. They suddenly know about transmissions, gear ratios, extended travel, tires and efficiency. Never mind they only learned it on Google a few minutes ago lol. They then go to the forum and expound on their (lack of) knowledge. Truth is, it’s hard to separate the bullshit from the truth on forums. Also on forums, you have to deal with the very real “I just spent a lot of money on this thing so it must be great” bias. When people buy something, especially if they spend a lot of money on it, very seldom will they trash the product. It’s almost like a Placebo effect. No lie, I have read where guys have put “E” rated tires on their vehicle, pumped them up to 60 psi, not added an ounce of weight to the truck and raved about how much smoother their ride is now! Really? Of course not. They just don’t want people to know they just dropped $1200 on tires that ride like a steel locomotive wheel and they suck. They somehow convince themselves that, “I just spent $1200, the ride must be better!” People do this with vehicles a LOT. So, stick with the pros on the reviews and stick with the dealers and Toyota on the issues. You will be glad you did!
Full Disclosure:
I went to the dealership about six weeks ago because the owner called me. They had just gotten in a new Land Cruiser. We had talked about the LC many times and I mentioned that I eventually could be interested in buying one. Well, I went and drove it. It is everything that the 4Runner aspires to be when it grows up! I won’t bore you with the LC’s attributes but suffice to say they were many. I went home and, after a few beers, decided to take a hard look at where I was at this point in my life. This also was the beginning of this story but I digress. I started asking myself questions: Did I truly want to get rid of my 4Runner? Did I really want to spend $80K+ on a vehicle to drive? I mean, two weeks before I had 10 five gallon buckets filled with gravel in my 4runner. Did I want to do that with the LC? So, after another beer or two, I REALLY took a deep dive into my life. My wife is retired, my kids are grown, I live outside, either on the mountain bike or in the woods on the trails. I still need a rugged 4WD because my job sometimes takes me out in the middle of nowhere. I live where we get feet of snow every year and there is no level ground. I still do a lot of wood work and enjoy working out in the yard. I came to the conclusion that, if I traded for anything, I needed a truck. I drove the Tundra a few years ago and that is just too… much for what I needed. So the next day, I went back to the dealer and traded for a Tacoma. That’s what happened with me. Now, before reading any further, you dear reader, need to ask yourself one basic question:
Do I Haul People or Do I Haul Stuff?
This is the most important question you should ask yourself before deciding on a 4Runner or a Tacoma. If you haul more than two people on a regular occasion, get a 4Runner and never look back. If you only haul yourself and one other person and you haul a lot of stuff, then look at a Tacoma. Yes, you can haul four adults in the Tacoma. It won’t be very comfortable for the people in the back though. Yes, only two people can ride in the 4Runner but then the back seat is wasted space, unless you fold them down.
Hands down, the 4Runner wins if you haul more than two people very often for any distance. The Tacoma does just fine with two people, maybe three adults for an hour or so. If I had to drive any distance regularly with four adults I would NOT get the Tacoma. So, if you are gonna haul people, quit reading and enjoy the 4Runner!
So What Did I Get?
I now own a 2017 4WD Tacoma. It has a 3.5L V6, six speed manual transmission and a short bed. I got the TRD Sport trim with no sunroof or technology package. I did get Entune and navigation. The color is Inferno. I also purchased the TRD Grille, the Toyota OEM Bed cover, Toyota bed extender and a generic bed mat. I have installed Vent Visors. That’s pretty much it. As of this minute I have put 5,342 miles on it in around a month and a half. The longest trip so far has put me in the driver’s seat for 12 hours. I think this qualifies me to at least state my opinion on the Tacoma.
Let’s Talk Apples to (Oranges, Spiders, Helmets) Quality
One of the many, many things that drives me crazy is when people decide to expound on quality. After reading or hearing what they have to say, I don’t think they would know quality if it bit them on the ass. People try to compare the 4Runner “quality” with the Tacoma “quality.” Why not compare the quality of your couch to the quality of your yard? It’s about the same comparison, really. Now, you could compare the quality of the 4Runner’s door panels to the Tacoma’s door panels. Compare the carpet or the glass. If you break it out, you can compare the individual quality of components, be it material spec or design. You cannot compare the “quality” of the whole vehicle, simply because the vehicles are not the same. You can compare the “luxury” of the vehicles and you can compare the fit and finish of the vehicles, but overall quality comparison will never tell the story. The 4Runner is definitely more luxurious.
The quality of the 4Runner is very good. The quality of the Tacoma is very good. They are also very different! Most of you have 4Runners so you know how they are. You know how you feel when you get in, how you feel when you drive it, how you feel when you wash it. Well, with the Tacoma, it is a different feeling. When you get in, you immediately know you are in a truck. This is extremely hard to describe, but it is an almost visceral feeling. It is a tad bit raw, a tad bit edgy. When you drive it, at least for me when going over a bump, I know I am in a truck simply because of that instant body/suspension flex you only get when you drive a truck. Bottom line, both are quality but, taken as a whole, both are very different. I’m pretty sure the Toyota engineers worked really hard to give the owner a “trucky” feel and they did a good job. It rides fine, actually smoother than my 4Runner TE with KDSS, but it is different somehow. The fit and finish is very good on both vehicles. The interior material is comparable between the two vehicles. Both are quality but both are different. It also does not help that the models between the 4Runner and the Tacoma are different. For example, they both offer SR5’s but what makes up a SR5 with a 4Runner is not what makes up the SR5 in a Tacoma. Different seat materials, different Entune, different options, etc.
The Important Part – The 3.5L Engine
So everyone is all worried that the Tacoma 3.5L engine is going to replace the 4.0 4Runner engine. I would not be worried at all guys. The HP and torque are basically the same when comparing the 4Runner to the Tacoma. I have a manual transmission but I did do an extensive test drive in an AT Tacoma. Guess what… in order to make it go, you have to push the accelerator pedal. In the 4Runner, in order to make it go, you have to push the accelerator. What’s the difference? About 7/10ths of a second from 0-60. The Tacoma is a bit quicker. When I test drove, especially up the hills, the Tacoma did indeed change gears rather often. In the 4Runner, it also changed gears quite often. Now, in my manual transmission, it does not need to be changed like the automatics change. There is a button in the Tacoma automatics, the ECT button that will minimize the shifting. Also, the aftermarket is HUGE for the Tacoma. Just thought I would throw that in there. After driving the 3.5 for 5K miles, and 400 miles was with a 3.5K trailer, I wouldn’t think twice about buying a 4Runner with this engine. Both my 4Runner and my Tacoma weigh within 100 lbs of each other. I am AVERAGING almost 22 mpg with the Tacoma. I averaged around 19.9 with the 4Runner. That is over 10% which is a really big deal!
Warts and All
You hear a lot about the problems the Tacoma and the 4Runner are having, especially if you read the forums. Tire shimmy. Vibration. Airbag. Rear diff. Water leaks. Recall this, problem that, blah blah blah. The Tacoma has had some issues. The 4Runner has had some issues. Right now there is a recall on 228,000 for possible rear diff weep or leak. Toyota only thinks about 1% of that number are affected but you gotta check them all. If you read about it on the forums though you would think the world is ending. It also had a few first year growing pains. Cam positioning sensor and a few other odds and ends. Mine? It’s working perfectly with no issues. Again, if I would have listened to those guys on TW I would have bought a Ford or something! I have been a member of this forum for six years and the problems I have had (squeaks, axle wrap, etc) from the 4Runner is about what I would expect to have from the Tacoma. No Takata airbag problem though! And compared to the rest of the automotive world? We have no problems!
Let’s Wrap This Up
There will always be detractors on both sides. There will be fanboys on both sides. I got a Tacoma because, right now at this point in my life, a smaller truck rather than a SUV fits my needs. I got a manual transmission because I just wanted it. Yes, the Tacoma has rear leaf springs and rear drum brakes. People say it like that’s a bad thing. Guess what – when I step on the brakes the truck slows down. When I step firmly on the brakes it slows down faster. Braking distance is comparable to other mid sized trucks. Drum brakes in the rear are no big deal. If it had drums all the way around there would be a problem. I have had a half ton of gravel in the back. The leaf springs did their job and kept the bumper from dragging. The engine goes just fine, the radio sounds good (so I can listen to my AM religious broadcasts – not) and the seats are comfortable to me. I didn’t get a sunroof on purpose because headroom. So far I really like the truck. It actually rides (and my wife concurs) better than the 4Runner on the interstate. We did 30 hours of driving in five days so we do have the seat time.
It seems like life, advertising, family and peer pressure is always pushing. You have to go faster, harder, stronger and longer, especially when you are younger and climbing the ladder. Well, the truth is, sometimes you can go sideways, slower or backwards and it’s OK. If you can afford it, get what you want and what will fit your needs the best. Haul lot of people and some stuff = 4Runner. Haul few people and lot of stuff = Tacoma. I think both are good vehicles. I don’t necessarily think buying the Tacoma is a step back from the 4Runner. It’s more a sideways step. They are truly two different vehicles with pros/cons to each. If I would have gotten the Land Cruiser it would have been a big step forward, but right now, I am fine and don’t know if I ever want to take that step. I’m not out to impress anyone any more. I have nothing left to prove. I am 55. I have a truck. After 5K miles, I truly feel that I could beat the piss out of this truck and it would still be just fine. Life is good.
Thanks for reading.
UPDATE 8-15-17:
Have almost 10K on it now. Runs and drives fine. Still enjoying rowing through the gears too! I had forgotten how useful having a truck was after owning the 4Runners for awhile. No issues at all.
On another note, TacomaWorld is a mess. You have like half a dozen guys over there who post 12K times in every thread about their issues. Sure, there have been recalls and sure, there have been issues but these guys won't give it a rest. They post so much they actually set the tone for the 3rd gen Tacoma forum. However, there are many many more that have no issues with their truck and they post too. Just like here, you have to separate the good info from the bad.
I still can't rightfully compare the 4Runner with the Tacoma in terms of overall quality. The Tacoma is a truck. Pure and simple. The 4Runner is an SUV. Unless you are a one or two person household you should not cross shop these vehicles. They are not meant to compete, really. The whole "feel" of the vehicles are different too.
Funny story: My wife wanted a new vehicle so we went from a Honda CR-V to a new '17 Highlander. Man, that thing has all the bells and whistles and costs much more than a 4Runner... TRD Pro... above msrp lol. Anyway, she had to have surgery (new knee) about 3 hours away. I asked her which vehicle she wanted to take as I wanted to make her as comfortable as possible on the drive home. She said take the truck... it's more comfortable as the seat height is perfect for her to slide into and out of the vehicle. The Highlander is really nice though and has a ton of room in the back seats for passengers and all those luxury features that people want on the 4Runner. The full HVAC controlled from the rear and the pull down sun shades for the back windows are pretty nifty lol.
itsdchz
New member
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]
Amazing write up and spot on. Love your take, vision, and simple way to highlight the pro's and con's. Thank you!
My wife love's her Highlander too, but secretly never complains about taking the 4Runner everywhere! I am sure the same would be if we had the Tacoma. Your sentiments about the people vs. the space, and T4R vs. Tacoma for consideration, SPOT ON!. Also the Oranges vs. Apples.. EXACTLY!
Enjoy!
Amazing write up and spot on. Love your take, vision, and simple way to highlight the pro's and con's. Thank you!
My wife love's her Highlander too, but secretly never complains about taking the 4Runner everywhere! I am sure the same would be if we had the Tacoma. Your sentiments about the people vs. the space, and T4R vs. Tacoma for consideration, SPOT ON!. Also the Oranges vs. Apples.. EXACTLY!
Enjoy!
wadle5
New member
I believe you are referring to a lateral move? :lol:
But seriously great comparison on the vehicles. I only ask because I drove through the dealer again this past weekend and they wanted 38k for a Tacoma and 43k for a similarly equipped Tundra......Just thought for 5k why not go full size and have the best of both worlds...haul people AND cargo!
So how long until you mod it???
Mr.Rick
New member
I really appreciate your (in my opinion) fair review on this. I went from a 2016 Tacoma TRD sport to a 4runner SR5 premium. I really enjoyed the Tacoma for the 10k miles I owned it but at the end of the day, I wanted more covered interior space and for me being a bigger guy, I needed more head and shoulder room. The only complaint I had with my Tacoma was that every time I would look over my shoulder, I would hit the B pillar. That is just a matter my size though and no fault of Toyota. I also had an issue with my rear diff, it was one of the ones that was recalled. Was I upset? Sure, but all vehicles have their issues and showing up to the dealership and losing your shit solves nothing. Be reasonable and willing to negotiate and you get a lot further. All in all, both the Tacoma and the 4Runner are great vehicles but serve very different purposes.
dot_tom
New member
Great write up! We bought our '16 Tacoma and fell in love with it. Our first Toyota and my Fiance and I would fight over who got to drive it. Lift and Tires were done within 300 miles. Plenty of camping trips, hauled my Intergra Type R to the race track, Haulel furniture and tons of truck stuff. The 3.5 is great and does everything it needs to do. I like how you say "if you want to go, step on the gas" its true.
Year later we decided to add a 2017 4Runner TRD OR. We love it! Lift and tires within 300 miles and now we fight over who gets to drive it. The loser still gets to drive the Tacoma, so its not too bad.
Two very different vehicles and their own strengths and weaknesses. I am glad to hear you love the Tacoma. If I had researched on the forums, I probably wouldn't own either vehicle right now.
Year later we decided to add a 2017 4Runner TRD OR. We love it! Lift and tires within 300 miles and now we fight over who gets to drive it. The loser still gets to drive the Tacoma, so its not too bad.
Two very different vehicles and their own strengths and weaknesses. I am glad to hear you love the Tacoma. If I had researched on the forums, I probably wouldn't own either vehicle right now.
Hellaflushfj60
New member
Good write up! Had a laugh at the Tacoma World bit. I'm on these forums quite a bit and when my dad got a 3rd gen taco I told him to check out the forums - I looked at them myself and it's pretty funny to read. Complete mess and a noticeable lack in relevant knowledge. Still browse it every now and then for a laugh.
flyrv9
New member
As previously stated it's kind of an apples vs oranges comparison. Since we have all 3 types of vehicles, I know they all have their strong and weak points. We have a 95 Nissan 2WD 5 speed pick-up, a 2000 Tundra 4WD pick-up and a 2013 4Runner SR5 4WD. All we bought new; and all have been excellent vehicles.
The Nissan for example is still on the original clutch after almost 200K miles. We keep it because it's worth little, still runs well, and is easy to drive and park - plus the A/C still works after all these years. But, I wouldn't take it on a trip; or tow anything. I've replaced a water pump, alternator and brakes. Also having a 5 speed is kind of a theft deterrent. Most young punk car thieves can't drive a stick and so will pass my Nissan by!
The Tundra has been bullet proof over 130K miles. I've changed 2 coil packs and 2 oxygen sensors and had the timing belt and water pump changed at 90K as suggested and brakes. It's not a Unimog but will go anywhere I need it to go and the 4.7 V8 still has plenty of power. I wouldn't hesitate to drive it across country - but I'd take some tools and a code reader!
The 4Runner has been trouble free over 17K miles and one 4.7K mile road trip. It's nice to have a vehicle with decent interior space. Sure I could put a cover over the Tundra bed; but after 13 years we were due a new vehicle anyway. Now we are both retired and drive much less - the 4Runner will probably be our last new vehicle unless I have another mid-life crisis!
The Nissan for example is still on the original clutch after almost 200K miles. We keep it because it's worth little, still runs well, and is easy to drive and park - plus the A/C still works after all these years. But, I wouldn't take it on a trip; or tow anything. I've replaced a water pump, alternator and brakes. Also having a 5 speed is kind of a theft deterrent. Most young punk car thieves can't drive a stick and so will pass my Nissan by!
The Tundra has been bullet proof over 130K miles. I've changed 2 coil packs and 2 oxygen sensors and had the timing belt and water pump changed at 90K as suggested and brakes. It's not a Unimog but will go anywhere I need it to go and the 4.7 V8 still has plenty of power. I wouldn't hesitate to drive it across country - but I'd take some tools and a code reader!
The 4Runner has been trouble free over 17K miles and one 4.7K mile road trip. It's nice to have a vehicle with decent interior space. Sure I could put a cover over the Tundra bed; but after 13 years we were due a new vehicle anyway. Now we are both retired and drive much less - the 4Runner will probably be our last new vehicle unless I have another mid-life crisis!
03_4x4Runner
Senior Member
I would like to see your opinion of the 4runner verses the Highlander. Mainly the power and driving experience no off road included obviously. I have recommended the Highlander to many people.
1engineer
Moderator
Alright... let me think about it a bit because they are different animals as well.
Cymon
New member
Great info, no less than I expected from you. I'd also like to eventually step up to the LC once the kids are grown. Hopefully they are still making/selling them in the US when I pawn the 4Runner off onto them. I couldn't live with the current car seats destroying the leather and seat cushioning in an $80k vehicle.
Moral of story: Tacoma is good for hauling stuff; 4Runner is for hauling people.
Both have their purposes. That said, 4Runner has its foundations in the LC Prado. Tacoma is very much a pickup tailored to North America. It's a solid reliable pickup, though the new 3.5 v6 I'm not a fan of; it's basically a passenger car engine retuned for truck usage. The 4runners old fashioned 4.0l v6 is nothing special by comparison, but it is a truck engine at its core.
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Both have their purposes. That said, 4Runner has its foundations in the LC Prado. Tacoma is very much a pickup tailored to North America. It's a solid reliable pickup, though the new 3.5 v6 I'm not a fan of; it's basically a passenger car engine retuned for truck usage. The 4runners old fashioned 4.0l v6 is nothing special by comparison, but it is a truck engine at its core.
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Hellaflushfj60
New member
With that being said, and I agree, the 4R has a higher tow rating than the taco though the taco has a trailer tow button.
At least in North America, the Tacoma has a higher tow rating than the 4runner's 5k lbs.
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