What do Toyota owners want?

Which notional 4runner setup would you buy?

  • Gas Engine, IFS, Rear Solid Axle

    Votes: 31 21.5%
  • Gas Engine, Solid Front and Rear Axle

    Votes: 14 9.7%
  • Diesel Engine, IFS, Rear Solid Axle

    Votes: 59 41.0%
  • Diesel Engine, Solid Front and Rear Axle

    Votes: 32 22.2%
  • None of the Above

    Votes: 8 5.6%

  • Total voters
    144
I've been shopping for a 4x4 for a while and I want something more capable than a CUV or AWD SUV with no low range. Without going to a full-size pickup, the only vehicles that qualify are Jeeps or Toyota 4Runner and Tacoma (and maybe the Nissan XTerra).

I don't plan on something like the Rubicon trail but it needs to be more capable than a RAV4.

My experience with Toyotas is far better than with Jeeps and I'd like a better highway driver than a Wrangler.

From Toyota, I would like better mileage. A diesel? Maybe, but it is expensive and why would Toyota make a large investment to certify a diesel in the USA when the government could change emissions requirements anytime (and can Toyota trust the US government to keep its promises?). Would Toyota sell enough diesel 4Runners to make back the cost of development?

For now, a 4Runner Trail Premium with KDSS is just about ideal.
 
One really basic request would be putting the 8 speed auto in. My rx 350 feels more powerful and I think that it is entirely due to gearing. I was thinking transmission tune but after seeing that it has 4.39:1 differential gears it makes perfect sense. Especially with smaller tires. The 6 speed allows for this low gearing and good highway crossing rpm. The 8 speed is even better. Every other suv in the market has a better auto range. Toyota needs to get wroth the times here. The tacoma should have come with the 6 speed matched up with at least 4.30 gears.
 
Where's the option for a unibody, front wheel drive, electric motor only that goes up to 5 miles on a single 48 hour charge that costs tons of money while emitting ungodly amounts of smug from the driver?
 
Thanks for that! I was kind of hoping to hear a variety of opinions on this topic.

The poll results so far indicate that there are a variety of opinions.
Answering your poll and actually ponying up to buy a diesel over gas engine are very different things and would bring about very different results. Toyota clearly knows this already.

I'd love a turbo diesel 4Runner, but I'm not willing to pay more than $1k over the price of the gas counterpart.
 
I suspect if there was a demand and a market for it and Toyota determined it would be worth the investment to legalize and smog it here for the US, then they would do it.

Something to keep in mind. Toyota sells ~75k 4Rs in the states in every year. We, the power users, the dorks that care enough to converse on the internet about our trucks, are a very small percentage of that amount. So there's a handful of hardcore users on the internet that want a diesel? That does not a business case make for offering it.

I'd love a turbo diesel 4Runner, but I'm not willing to pay more than $1k over the price of the gas counterpart.

Likewise.

I take my truck off-road often and I'm not wanting for a diesel. I think you would find the take rate for such an option to be incredibly low.
 
I didn't put this poll together to try and convince Toyota HQ to put a diesel in their next gen 4runner. I have no idea what Toyota Corporate is thinking, and I'm willing to be bet that no one else on this forum does either.

I simply wanted to find out the preferences of 4runner owners, on this forum, when it came to diesel vs gas, IFS vs solid axle.

So if anyone else wants to warn me off on the futility of trying to get Toyota to put a diesel in one of their trucks, that's fine....just understand that you're missing the point.
 
There are very few products I would literally drive to the dealer and pay full msrp tomorrow for. One of them would be a new modern FJ40. If there were a Toyota version of the wrangler unlimited, I would own one. And to be entirely honest, I really don't much care if it were IFS or SA. I'd probably throw the stock axles away either way. Now if they were 70 series axles - I'd be all about it.

The key though is a factory convertible SUV from Toyota. In many ways an early 4runner type top would be great as well.
 
I simply wanted to find out the preferences of 4runner owners, on this forum, when it came to diesel vs gas, IFS vs solid axle.

And I think the point myself and some other have made that you've missed is it *doesnt matter* what we want. Since we're a very small representation of the 4Runner purchasing demographic.

I'm sure all the soccer moms I see around here driving their 5th gens couldn't give two craps less about a diesel option.

My personal opinion?

I don't care. I don't tow and gas is cheap so I'm not willing to drop an extra $3k+ on a diesel option.

The key though is a factory convertible SUV from Toyota. In many ways an early 4runner type top would be great as well.

The new roof crash standards are going to make this a non-starter and even Jeep is apparently having design problems with the next generation Wrangler and trying to keep it compliant.
 
198,000 wranglers per year in sales says Jeep will figure it out. It will remain a convertible. Toyota could do the same.

Not to mention the 20 other convertible models.

Even just copy the renegade would be pretty close;
jeep-cherokee-trailhawk-forest-lake-mn-04.jpg
 
Answering your poll and actually ponying up to buy a diesel over gas engine are very different things and would bring about very different results. Toyota clearly knows this already.

I'd love a turbo diesel 4Runner, but I'm not willing to pay more than $1k over the price of the gas counterpart.

Why not? Plenty of folks are paying up to 5K more for an appearance package and shocks (TRD Pro).
 
I'd like exactly what I have. A comfortable daily driver (IFS) with decent off-road capability. If I wanted a real rock crawler I'd get an old Wrangler or Land Cruiser.

And the recent Volkswagen problems have convinced me that Toyota won't be getting into the US small diesel market any time soon.
 
One more thing. Make it smaller or offer a smaller model. Basically a 3rd Gen with a modern drive train and 25mpg.

I think a lot of owners would be better suited with a highlander with an off road package. Add the 8 speed with no need for low range but put a stronger transfer case and atrac.
 
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At this point I would settle for the return of a manual transmission option on the 4Runner. Never understood why it went away on the 4runner but not the Tacoma.
 
I didn't put this poll together to try and convince Toyota HQ to put a diesel in their next gen 4runner. I have no idea what Toyota Corporate is thinking, and I'm willing to be bet that no one else on this forum does either......

(Whatever your motivation) I think it has generated some really interesting discussion and a nice break from will these tires fit posts. Thanks for putting it out there to kick the crap out of.
 
For me (new toyota owner in the last month, never owning a toyota before this, always owning a diesel truck (still do...just needs work )) but needed something smaller for driving in downtown areas as i was tired of crew cab/long box and turning radius... and more family orientated, the 4Runner is perfect! I love my 2015 SR5 Premium. If the Colorado duramax was available at this moment, I would have bought that over the 4Runner only because I prefer diesels. I needed something now as my transmission went on my truck.

I think there is a demand for diesels in these types of vehicles, but I think some of it relates to the packaging that the manufacturer puts together. I did not like the options for the ECO diesel in the either truck or SUV so i steered away from Ram/jeep.
 
And I think the point myself and some other have made that you've missed is it *doesnt matter* what we want.

It does matter in that I would like to know what perspectives/opinions of the owners on this forum....so far the poll results indicate a variety of opinions on this topic.

I'm sure all the soccer moms I see around here driving their 5th gens couldn't give two craps less about a diesel option.

Where does this perception of the 4runner being a "soccer mom" vehicle come from? I acknowledge that some soccer moms and commuters purchase and drive the 4runner for purely daily driver use, but the same applies for Jeep JK's, Chevy Suburbans...there are a lot of BOF trucks that never see any action outside of grocery shopping.

But I see far more "soccer mom" types driving a Subaru Outback, Audi or BMW crossover, Honda CRV, Jeep Cherokee. And Toyota certainly doesn't seem to be marketing the 4runner to the "soccer mom" crowd:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-66qsKlHTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwTxEIEGcCs

Seems to me that Toyota is marketing this vehicle to the exploratory type, but I'm just speculating...
 
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Where does this perception of the 4runner being a "soccer mom" vehicle come from?

It's not "perception", it's reality. Well, reality inasmuch as a clear majority of other 4Rs I see are driven by women.

But I see far more "soccer mom" types driving a Subaru Outback, Audi or BMW crossover, Honda CRV, Jeep Cherokee.

Well sure you do, but there is also a higher population of those vehicles too, thus more drivers of either sex.

And Toyota certainly doesn't seem to be marketing the 4runner to the "soccer mom" crowd:

True, but who does, really? Jeep=rugged/outdoorsy, BMW=Luxury/The Ultimate Driving Machine, Subaru=Love/Squishy, Audi=Luxury/Technology.

Seems to me that Toyota is marketing this vehicle to the exploratory type, but I'm just speculating...

Granted, that's how they market it, but regardless, I sure know which sex I see driving 75% of them. The demographic of this forum is in no way indicative of the real world 4R driver.
 
What? No hybrid?

Just thinking about putting a diesel engine into my 4runner gets me daydreaming: gobs of torque and grunt to tow a whole range of loads or to power up steep terrain; prolonged engine life; better fuel economy. If diesels were to make a true comeback here in the US, you'd think it would start in this segment, which caters to off-road enthusiasts, rural working types, and people who like to travel and explore.

Maybe I am wrong in my assumption. So that's why I put this poll together. If you had the money and the ability to buy a brand new 4runner (think of it as the new and revised 6th gen), which of these listed options would you choose?

Edit: For the sake of context, when I refer to a an optional gas engine, think of a 3.5 or 4.0L V6, naturally aspirated engine with something like 300hp and 270lb-ft. When I refer to a diesel engine, think of a modern inline 4 cylinder or V-6 turbo-diesel, with somewhere around 250hp and 390lb-ft.

I'd actually like to see a good hybrid done for an offroad vehicle. the torque and control offered by 4-wheel electric assist would be killer. And the mileage could equal or beat a diesel. The 6200 lb Chevy Tahoe hybrid had fuel numbers equal to the current 4runner but with 332 HP and 367 Ft-lbs. That would be awesome in the 4runner.
 
I'd actually like to see a good hybrid done for an offroad vehicle. the torque and control offered by 4-wheel electric assist would be killer. And the mileage could equal or beat a diesel. The 6200 lb Chevy Tahoe hybrid had fuel numbers equal to the current 4runner but with 332 HP and 367 Ft-lbs. That would be awesome in the 4runner.

First off, the first generation GMC/Chevy "Hybrid" trucks/SUVs were a very loose definition of a hybrid (at least as the public has been led to believe.) The reason they got to call themselves a "hybrid" is because the alternator & starter were replaced with a combination generator/alternator/starter "hybrid" unit. The entire system was so the vehicle could stop/start at red lights and save fuel idling. The second generation was closer to a traditional hybrid with motors and a battery pack; but from what I read they weren't that great in real life. They tended to be only slightly quicker than non-hybrid units (if that), and shifting and power delivery was inconsistent and undesirably finicky at times.

All that being said, I would not want a hybrid SUV for off-roading period. With all the issues I see with the Prius line and other hybrids from other brands over the years; I would not want a failure on the trail (granted they don't have issue regularly and it's not like they're fragile) because it'll be a logistic nightmare. Something you need to realize about hybrids is that they can't be towed like a normal vehicle, when the 12v power supply goes, the ENTIRE vehicle is dead, and god forbid the HV battery pack runs out because the 12v was run down and you pushed it too long; then you're SOL until you get to the dealer (thankfully Toyota is starting to make HV chargers mandatory at every dealer). But that still leaves the question of how you are going to transport a giant brick that can't and isn't supposed to roll without damaging the hybrid system to the dealer to get charged up anyways.

Honestly, I'd rather have an EV off-roader that's been designed and equipped with virtually bulletproof EV drivetrain components that are modular and easy to swap/repair in the field. Unfortunately we're easily a decade or two out from that because while EV technology is nice; it isn't reliable enough to trust out on the trail (highway sure, just call a flatbed and have it taken to the dealer if it has an issue.)

~

All that being said, I want what Toyota will not make in North America...

-A Gasoline V8 like the 1UR-FE (4.6L V8) or 3UR-FE (5.7L V8)
-Or a Diesel V8 like the 1VD-FTV (4.5L Twin VGT Common Rail V8), although one of the newer GD diesels aren't too bad I suppose
-Manual transmission isn't as important to me, but if they are going to go above 7 speeds for the transmission it better drive nice. So far every transmission that is about 7+ in speeds just seems to have poor transmission of power (i.e. feel of the vehicle accelerating/decelerating in gears as you load the engine) and/or they hunt for gears noticeably; not to mention the higher gear transmissions have still to prove reliability (one need only look at Chrysler to see how well those 8spds are holding up, not to mention the issues the older ZFs 7spds have been popping up with in other brands.)
-Beefier suspension, the dual wishbone IFS in the J120/J150 is nice and I like it; I'd just prefer the TRD Pro suspension was standard vs. what you have now.
-The body is better designed for larger tires, i.e. the FJ Cruiser will easily fit 33 and up to 35" tires with minimal trimming and rubbing along the fenders compared to a 4th or 5th gen 4Runner.
-Stronger charging system, this is a must for a vehicle that is being touted as off-road in my opinion; mainly because it shows that it's ready to be "built" with winches, lighting, ect.
-Strong differentials and transfercase (granted Toyota has done reasonably well here so it's not that big an issue.)
-Locking front, center, and rear differentials (if they are going to use an electronic unit, preferably one that is very robust)
-Torsen center differential (to give it good on-road manners)
-Not too much luxury or electronic crap (i.e. BSM, Self-Parking, Self-Braking, all that useless garbage that just adds to the sticker price and repair bills), but have enough modern comfort touches that it feels high class (i.e. ventilated seats, a nice modern looking center console & dash, nice but durable rubber/leather/plastic trim, ect.)
-Stout frame (again, not so much an issue as the J120/J150 platforms have been good in that respect) with better rust protection (I haven't had rust issues with my 4th gen but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.)
-Better interior ergonomics (I found the 4th gen to be one of the most comfortable 4Runners to sit in/operate; the 5th gen is nice but many of the switches, rests, and so on are just a little "off" and not as comfortable.)

I could probably go on quite a bit more... but basically Toyota will never make that vehicle. The closest you can come for a brand new one would be a Land Cruiser.

Not the overluxed, mall crawling, blinged out $90k one that exists in the US; but the optionable, more laid back, rugged Land Cruiser you can get over seas in a more "modest" loadout with say the 1VD-FTV 4.5L Diesel V8 and very nice cloth seats.
 

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