what would you do??

T

T4Running4Fun

New member
Alright. I am in over my head now and was not expecting this...

I just bought a 99 limited with 155K on it. I got it for 8300 knowing there were a few things needing to be fixed and I would be in it 2-3k more at the dealership. I figured, still worth it. The interior and exterior of the car is in beautiful shape and with brand new tires.

So I take it to Toyota to fix:
- Valve cover gaskets
- Water pump/timing belt/seals (since I dont know the service history and if it was done at 90k)
- Leaking power steering rack

They also told me possible oil pan gasket and rear main seal leaking, but hard to tell because the valve cover gaskets are leaking bad. So I said start with the above.

I get a call that they sarted in on the valve cover gaskets and found an enormous amount of sludge build up in the engine. I'm told it's not likely to last much longer like this and will need a new engine.

I'm given the option of a short block from toyota with a 12mo, 12k mi warranty or a long block from Jaspers (I think thats what they said) with a 3yr 100k mi warranty. I'm looking at between 9k and 9700 now.

Any advice?? Should I try and sell it how it is and just get out of it and suffer the loss? Fix the issues and bite the bigger monthly payment? I'm so pissed cuz the car is beautiful and exactly what I want.
 
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DEALERS ALWAYS LIE!!!

Dealer recommending a new engine? Yeah I've heard that before. I have never heard of sludge issues in the 3.4L though and would be surprised if it were true even at 155k. IMO someone else should look at it so you can see what they think. That is a laundry list of big repairs which makes me suspicious. . .
 
With all due respect to any dealer techs on here, please take your 4runner to a reputable independent mechanic and get their opinion.
 
My b/f who is a mechanic at honda went over and took a look at it. It does indeed have sludge build up...but he's questioning their quick response of just giving up on the engine and suggesting a whole new one. There's no way to know how long it will still go.

So I've decided to just get the valve cover gaskets, power steering, and timing belt/water pump/seals done since they're already in there and I'm in it in labor costs no mater what. Then I'm just going to drive it either until the engine blows or maybe just try and sell it and get out of it.

Any suggestions on selling it? Trade it in? How much is it worth?
 
Given that it's 10 years old with 155K miles, you are going to have some issues with the car. If you take it to say 3 dealers, you may end up with 3 VERY different recommendations. Everyone has their idea of gold plating your car. I would do the repairs you mentioned and then drive it.

People who buy cars with that kind of miles are mostly do-it-yourselfers who have some knowledge to tinker around. If you're not familiar with automotive mechanics, this may be a great opportunity for you. This forum consist of members with wealth of information willing to give advice. Hope you will enjoy your 4 runner.
 

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To try and sell it without telling a potential buyer about the sludge issue is unethical, to say the least. If your boyfriend is a mechanic, why didn't you ask him to look it over BEFORE you purchased it?

If I were you, I'd drive it until it started giving me problems and then deal with the engine repairs down the road. Especially if it is in excellent condtion otherwise.
 
Even Steven said:
To try and sell it without telling a potential buyer about the sludge issue is unethical, to say the least. If your boyfriend is a mechanic, why didn't you ask him to look it over BEFORE you purchased it?

If I were you, I'd drive it until it started giving me problems and then deal with the engine repairs down the road. Especially if it is in excellent condtion otherwise.
Click to expand...

I agree. I wouldnt be able to lie and pass the problem on to someone else without them knowing.

I did have my boyfriend and Toyota look it over before I bought it. I knew about the leaking valve cover gaskets and power steering rack. But they didnt take off the valve covers. So I had no way of knowing about the sludge...

For now I'm going to just fix what I'm already into it with Toyota, then drive it and deal with problems when they come up. I do really love the car. I just wish I could drive it without having to worry...

But is there anything I can do to help clean out some of the sludge? I also found this on an older forum:
"Note; If you have sludge in your engine, be careful what oil you use. Very good group IV/V synthetic oil could cause havoc by dissolving the sludge. There are special additives (such as Auto RX http://www.auto-rx.com/) that can remove the sludge safely. You would use the additive for a short period (such as 500 miles) with cheap dino oil several times until it is clean. Then you could use the quality synthetic."

Thoughts on this?
 
T4Running4Fun said:

But is there anything I can do to help clean out some of the sludge?
Click to expand...

Yes, some Toyota dealerships have a machine that forces pressurized mineral oil throughout the entire engine. The idea is to filter out as much crap as possible to make the engine as clean as possible. The dealership that I used to work had one of these machines and they proved to be very popular. You might want to call a few of your local dealerships to see if they have one of these engine flushing machines.
 
Re: Re: DEALERS ALWAYS LIE!!!

97Limited4Me said:
Right...

Original post here:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33135&highlight=sludge+monster
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw and read that already. The sludge issue is not common, sporadic at best, in the 3.4L, although the 3.0L V6 did have issues. What is pictured here appears to be pure neglect and ignorance as discussed in the thread. Back on topic though. . . It wouldn't hurt to investigate options on cleaning out the sludge and weighing the benefits to the cost. Your engine is resilient and may be able to recover.
 
Even Steven said:
To try and sell it without telling a potential buyer about the sludge issue is unethical, to say the least. If your boyfriend is a mechanic, why didn't you ask him to look it over BEFORE you purchased it?
Click to expand...

It might be just me, but I don't think "looking over a vehicle before you buy" usually includes removing the valve covers to check for sludge.
 
Even Steven said:
Yes, some Toyota dealerships have a machine that forces pressurized mineral oil throughout the entire engine. The idea is to filter out as much crap as possible to make the engine as clean as possible. The dealership that I used to work had one of these machines and they proved to be very popular. You might want to call a few of your local dealerships to see if they have one of these engine flushing machines.
Click to expand...

I talked with my boyfriend a little about this option, but havent asked toyota about it yet. There was something else he was saying you can flush through it...I didnt know about the mineral oil...but his concern was that it could cause "chunks" or whatever to break free and end up somewere else and cause a problem. Any experience with that?
 
Re: Re: Re: DEALERS ALWAYS LIE!!!

004Gunner said:
Yeah I saw and read that already. The sludge issue is not common, sporadic at best, in the 3.4L, although the 3.0L V6 did have issues. What is pictured here appears to be pure neglect and ignorance as discussed in the thread. Back on topic though. . . It wouldn't hurt to investigate options on cleaning out the sludge and weighing the benefits to the cost. Your engine is resilient and may be able to recover.
Click to expand...

I agree with the pure neglect. Its horrible. I know mine didnt look near that bad however. So I'm hoping there is hope it will still last me for a while. I'm investigating the cleaning out options.
 
BG makes a pretty good engine flush kit. If possible get a couple of those, use one then drive it for awhile. Use the second one a month or 2 later. You will probably be using a fair amount of oil at this point because your oil control rings are now gummed up and collapsed. If you have the money and you feel your 4runner is worth it you can have the heads removed and thoroughly cleaned and made right then have new rings and bearings put in. If you lived in cali I would either want to buy it from you or do the work to fix it
 
birchy said:
It might be just me, but I don't think "looking over a vehicle before you buy" usually includes removing the valve covers to check for sludge.
Click to expand...

I'm an ex-mechanic, so I'd sure do it. But keep in mind that you don't have to remove a valve cover to check for sludge. Simply removing the oil fill cap usually does the trick.
 
thanks toytech (I'm assuming your a tech at a toyota shop). I looked at BG products web site and that looks pretty good. I'll see if I can get my b/f to help with that - I dont know how much a shop would charge for that. What's your thought on how often I should be doing oil changes with the condition its in, and what kind would you rec?

I'm torn about putting the investment in to doing your suggestion about the heads, rings and bearings - especially since its not something I could do myself and would feel bad dragging my b/f into putting his time into it (he's more of a honda man and has enough of his own projects as it is). I want to have this 4runner for a long time, but I am hesitant about putting much into the engine that it has now and rather just drive it as long as I can, then look at replacing it down the line if need be. So in the mean time I want to do what is best for it to improve the chances of it lasting a long as possible.

Of course, if I had someone up here offering to help me or take it off my hands, I might be thinking differently....See a trip to OR in your future?? ;-)
 
T4Running4Fun said:
I talked with my boyfriend a little about this option, but havent asked toyota about it yet. There was something else he was saying you can flush through it...I didnt know about the mineral oil...but his concern was that it could cause "chunks" or whatever to break free and end up somewere else and cause a problem. Any experience with that?
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's the reason that the engine flush machine runs under pressure. Actually, it is hooked up to shop air (90 PSI) and it does a great job of dissolving sludge and removing it. In your case, I'd run the machine through at least two cycles to ensure that everything is dissolved and removed. Each cycle uses fresh oil and new filters in the machine.
 
Even Steven said:
Yes, but that's the reason that the engine flush machine runs under pressure. Actually, it is hooked up to shop air (90 PSI) and it does a great job of dissolving sludge and removing it. In your case, I'd run the machine through at least two cycles to ensure that everything is dissolved and removed. Each cycle uses fresh oil and new filters in the machine.
Click to expand...

I see...Now how would that compare to using the BG products toytech was suggesting? Sorry for the ignorance about it....Still learning.

Also, any ideas on how much a shop would charge for that?
 
T4Running4Fun said:
I see...Now how would that compare to using the BG products toytech was suggesting? Sorry for the ignorance about it....Still learning.

Also, any ideas on how much a shop would charge for that?
Click to expand...

No comparison at all. The mineral oil is heated and combined with detergents that are specifically designed to dissolve sludge and remove it under pressure. You'd be amazed at the crap that comes out of a normal engine with this machine, much less your sludge monster engine!

As for the price, it used to be about $100.00 about 10 years ago. I'm sure the price is higher now though...
 
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