Wheel Input Sought - 17 x 8.5 4.3" BS -10mm

TonyB66

New member
I’m on the brink of purchasing wheels and tires. I am certain that 33s (285/75-16) will suit us well now, and possibly even going-forward. Research here indicates that a 16x8 wheel with 4.5” BS will fit with no required BL or modifications. I have SPC UCAs for added flexibility, seemingly further making the 285/75-16 install a problem-free one.

After a couple of conversations, I am now contemplating different 33s, but on a 17” wheel - 285/70-17. The larger wheel affords upside potential in the rolling diameter. Knowing me, once the little ones leave home, I can see myself ditching the rear seats and doing quite a bit more to our now family adventure vehicle. Heck, maybe I won’t have such a desire when I’m that old, or maybe I’d want to do so even more! Prognostication aside, that is the dilemma I currently find myself.

If I were to decide upon 17” wheels, would 17 x 8.5 4.3" BS -10mm offset serve me well with desired 33s, and also later, like with 35s?

If such wheels are good in that respect, that is my current lean. The negative is that these 17” wheels are more expensive and heavier, often including their corresponding tires (more $ and mass), when compared to 16s. I realize some 17” tires, with the same rolling diameter, are actually lighter of course; and with respect to rolling mass, an added pound is more negatively impactful at the edge (tire) as compared to further inward (wheel). And, with 17s, there are more tire options.

To that point, one example is that BFG’s KO2 come in a 17 (285/70-17) with load rating C, a 6 ply that weighs like 8-10 pounds less than other Es of the same size. For this same tire in 16s, although the same wheel I’m considering is 3 pounds less, the fewer tire options are also heavier Es, which we don’t need now. The 33 on 17s (wheel & tire combo) is lighter than the 16 33s, notably the tire.

I appreciate the feedback as I know others have factored-in such considerations. So my question above is not lost – Are 17 x 8.5 4.3" BS -10mm wheels a good choice for 33s now, and larger tires later?

Thanks much.
 
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Sounds like your choice is well-researched!

The only clarity I can bring is you will almost certainly need to still trim some stuff (perhaps a lot, if you intend to wheel a good bit). Your wheels will stick out .2" further than mine and I still rub with my 285s despite a good bit of trimming and hammering (though, I also run soft front coils with no sway bars, so I am pretty flexy up front.
 
Lindenwood, thanks for the reality check.

If I do indeed go with the 17" wheels with the 4.3" BS, a 0.2" delta from stock, where would you anticipate possible rubbing with 285/70-17 tires?

Sticking-out 0.2" further, aesthetically, would seem fine, especially with Limited flares...
 
Sorry. To be clear, I have 8" wheels with 4" BS, and with my tires puts me about 1.4" further out than stock on each side. You will be a hair further.

After substantially softening up the suspension, I rub still on the back of the fender well on the driver side and on the left side frame at full lock. Also, occasionally I rub the passenger side front of the wheel well where where the windshield washer fluid reservoir makes the wheel-well trim stick out a bit more.
 

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Sorry. To be clear, I have 8" wheels with 4" BS, and with my tires puts me about 1.4" further out than stock on each side. You will be a hair further.

After substantially softening up the suspension, I rub still on the back of the fender well on the driver side and on the left side frame at full lock. Also, occasionally I rub the passenger side front of the wheel well where where the windshield washer fluid reservoir makes the wheel-well trim stick out a bit more.

Thanks for the clarification. Having looked at my stock tires, and how far they stick out in relation to the flares, I'm fine with that...

I'm reasonably certain that I'm going to purchase those wheels (17 x 8.5 4.3" BS) this week, or at least those tires (BFG K02 285/70-17) as they are currently on sale.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Having looked at my stock tires, and how far they stick out in relation to the flares, I'm fine with that...

I'm reasonably certain that I'm going to purchase those wheels (17 x 8.5 4.3" BS) this week, or at least those tires (BFG K02 285/70-17) as they are currently on sale.
I mispoke before! My wheels have 4.5" of backspacing! But, the edge of the rim sticks out about 1.25" further than stock, and the edge of the tire is about 1.5" further out than stock. So, 8.5" wheels with 4.3" if backspace would stick out another .7" beyond what is pictured!!

I only add that correction because it will affect both the aesthetics as well as the amount of trimming required (more trimming!).
 
I mispoke before! My wheels have 4.5" of backspacing! But, the edge of the rim sticks out about 1.25" further than stock, and the edge of the tire is about 1.5" further out than stock. So, 8.5" wheels with 4.3" if backspace would stick out another .7" beyond what is pictured!!

I only add that correction because it will affect both the aesthetics as well as the amount of trimming required (more trimming!).

Well, it looks like more trimming for me then. I ordered five of those tires last night... From what you explain, it looks like I'll be almost 2.25" further outward on the tires. I imagine this is doable. I'll look to see what I'd be trimming later today...
 
I have not yet committed to wheels. Are there more desirable 17" wheel specs for 33s, future 35s? Here's some of what I'm seeing for hubcentric options (106mm bore):

- 17x8", 4.5" BS, 0 offset
- 17x8", 4.1" BS, -10mm offset
- 17x8", 5.11" BS, -10mm offset

- 17x8.5", 4.3" BS, -10mm offset (thread title)

- 17x9", 3.5" BS, -38mm offset
- 17x9", 5.03" BS, 0 offset
- 17x9", 5.11" BS, -12mm offset

When I was contemplating 16's, I learned that 16x8", 4.5" BS, 0 offset wheels made 33s (285/75-16) fitment a breeze, with multiple reports of zero rubbing. That is a good reference point, I feel...

For the relationship between backspacing and offset, I found this cool chart:

EDU_wheel-offset-backspacing-conversion-chart.jpg


If a 33" tire fits very well on a 16" wheel with 4.5" BS and 0 offset, shouldn't a 33" tire fit just as well, theoretically, on a 17" wheel with 4.5' BS and 0 offset? If so, that would seem to be the safe bet (17x8", 4.5" BS, 0 offset).

That said, there are fewer larger tire options for 8" width wheels, as compared to 8.5"+....

I've decided that I won't go larger than 35s. The rear bumper swing-out carrier has a max of 35" too. So, the wheel of choice will be for 33s to 35s. It then seems that 17x9"s are on the overkill side for me, leaving these four:

- 17x8", 4.5" BS, 0 offset
- 17x8", 4.1" BS, -10mm offset
- 17x8", 5.11" BS, -10mm offset

- 17x8.5", 4.3" BS, -10mm offset (thread title)

This sort of thinking out loud has been helpful for me actually. I still welcome the input of others though. The seemingly "safe" bet of 17x8", 4.5" BS, 0 offset for 33s is appealing because that's what's coming next week (285/70 - 17s). As far as future fitments for up to 35 is where I remain uncertain as to which wheel would be a better choice...
 
I am running x8s with 4.5" of backspacing. Stock wheels are around 4.625" of BS so with wider tires, you will likely rub the UCAs with stock BS, and almost certainly with anything higher. My tires are maybe 1/4" from the UCAs. I do occasionally rub the frame on the driver's side at left full lock (unsure if I should or even can possibly adjust the steering stops).

Going with less backspacing will just mean a longer turning arc for the front wheels, and thus more trimming.
My tires are slightly on the larger side of 285s (more like 33-33.1, static), and even with the front lifted over 3" and extremely stiff, I had to do some mild trimming. Now that my front is much softer I am probably looking at things like relocating the washer bottle.

As to wheel width, I think there are lots of folks running 315 (35s) on x8 and even x7 wheels, so while it might not be ideal I certainly don't think x9s would ever really be required.
 
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I think you really just gotta ask yourself where you want to end up with your build. I am running 16" SCS F5s with 3.5" BS. I did some research early on and noticed that the 3.5 BS was desired if you wanted to end up running 35s without running spacers. I thought that that was a remote possibility at the time, but 35s are in the mail. I just wanted to end up with something that would grow with my build and not require spacers and be the correct bore diameter. Are they going to accommodate 35s without much work? I don't think so.

My point is, get something that is a little future proof that you like. Wheels aren't forever. You can make adjustments down the road, but also don't be afraid to do a little work to make them fit. The SPC UCAs can give you a lot of flexibility in the fitment department.

The 17" options can be nice because there seems to be a fair amount more size options from more manufactures. You can run 285/70/17, 297/70/17, 285/75/17, or 315/70/17, and a few others.
 
Thank you both.

I had 33s on my old LandCruisers (FJ40) back in the day and and that's probably a contributory reason for wanting that size again (nostalgia). Fond memories for sure...

Future-proof I get and that's what makes this a little more difficult, I feel. 33s (285/70 - 17) is happening. Just got an email that they are coming this Thu. So, I'm committed in the short term to those tires, and longer, to 17" wheels...

You say wheels are not forever, but they are more so than tires, which are more disposable items. I want a wheel that's also going to afford me some upside, to 35 max. Willing to do reasonable trimming and pounding, no problem there. Would be nice if the 33s didn't need as much persuasion though...

I have no BL, and I'd ideally like to keep it that way. What I will have help...

Front: Suspension lift (King) approx 2" with SPC UCAs
Rear: Suspension lift (King) approx 3" with 891...

I'm also considering the F5s. SCS is local to me, which is nice.
 
Thank you both.

I had 33s on my old LandCruisers (FJ40) back in the day and and that's probably a contributory reason for wanting that size again (nostalgia). Fond memories for sure...

Future-proof I get and that's what makes this a little more difficult, I feel. 33s (285/70 - 17) is happening. Just got an email that they are coming this Thu. So, I'm committed in the short term to those tires, and longer, to 17" wheels...

You say wheels are not forever, but they are more so than tires, which are more disposable items. I want a wheel that's also going to afford me some upside, to 35 max. Willing to do reasonable trimming and pounding, no problem there. Would be nice if the 33s didn't need as much persuasion though...

I have no BL, and I'd ideally like to keep it that way. What I will have help...

Front: Suspension lift (King) approx 2" with SPC UCAs
Rear: Suspension lift (King) approx 3" with 891...

I'm also considering the F5s. SCS is local to me, which is nice.

You have a 2" lift in front and you want 33s to fit with minimal rub? I predict A LOT of persuasion. I have SCS 17x8.5 w/ -10mm offset with 275 70 17 BFG KO2s, SPC UCAs and they barely fit and they do rub once in a while when I flex when the wheel is turned. Seems like they mostly hit on the front Limited flare as I have my caster set around 3.5. Easier to trim that flare than to beat the hell out of the pinch weld, which I had to do too.

I had considered a BL. I just don't like the way these trucks handle compared to stock the higher you go.
 
You have a 2" lift in front and you want 33s to fit with minimal rub? I predict A LOT of persuasion. I have SCS 17x8.5 w/ -10mm offset with 275 70 17 BFG KO2s, SPC UCAs and they barely fit and they do rub once in a while when I flex when the wheel is turned. Seems like they mostly hit on the front Limited flare as I have my caster set around 3.5. Easier to trim that flare than to beat the hell out of the pinch weld, which I had to do too.

I had considered a BL. I just don't like the way these trucks handle compared to stock the higher you go.

John, I appreciate you making the time to share your thoughts; especially since you also have SCS 17x8.5 -10 offset wheels AND the same KO2 tires (275/70-17) that I will have shortly...

If my goal was simply to get 33s and be done with it, I would have gone with hubcentric 16x8 wheels, 4.5" BS and zero offset (SCS, FN Wheels, Level 8 and maybe others). There are multiple confirmed accounts of these wheels mating-up with 285/75-16 (33s) with zero rub, even on stock rigs. If my be be-all and end-all were such, I'd be done and there would be no such thread.

I am attempting to find another route to 33s, one that will provide a more desirable path to larger tires, up to a max of 35s. In doing so, I'm willing to compromise and forgo the ease of going with 33s on the aforementioned 16x8s, and work a little... Sounds like you've had your share of trimming and pounding (flares and pinch weld).

I have to comment on your caster setting of 3.5. Wow, I like it. I'm generally in the more is better camp, to a point of course (rubbing and camber impact, I believe). I imagine more caster creates fender flair rubbing and at the pinch weld, right? If so, sounds like you are walking-the-line, trying to max caster, while "accepting" some rubbing.

John, thanks again.
 
John, I appreciate you making the time to share your thoughts; especially since you also have SCS 17x8.5 -10 offset wheels AND the same KO2 tires (275/70-17) that I will have shortly...

If my goal was simply to get 33s and be done with it, I would have gone with hubcentric 16x8 wheels, 4.5" BS and zero offset (SCS, FN Wheels, Level 8 and maybe others). There are multiple confirmed accounts of these wheels mating-up with 285/75-16 (33s) with zero rub, even on stock rigs. If my be be-all and end-all were such, I'd be done and there would be no such thread.

I am attempting to find another route to 33s, one that will provide a more desirable path to larger tires, up to a max of 35s. In doing so, I'm willing to compromise and forgo the ease of going with 33s on the aforementioned 16x8s, and work a little... Sounds like you've had your share of trimming and pounding (flares and pinch weld).

I have to comment on your caster setting of 3.5. Wow, I like it. I'm generally in the more is better camp, to a point of course (rubbing and camber impact, I believe). I imagine more caster creates fender flair rubbing and at the pinch weld, right? If so, sounds like you are walking-the-line, trying to max caster, while "accepting" some rubbing.

John, thanks again.

Please show me the confirmed accounts of 33s on a stock rig. Just don't see how that's possible, especially on a Limited with the flares. I think I may have read a thread or 2 but I don't think it's possible to have no rubbing through full suspension articulation with those size tires. Now if your going straight down the road and not turning they may not rub....

The caster spec for our rigs is 1.7 to 3.5. I maxed it out for better handling and to eliminate the rub at the pinch weld. Lessening caster increases the chance of rubbing on the pinchweld UNLESS you're using the UCA to adjust caster then it's the opposite as your actually tilting the top of the wheel backwards (to increase caster) towards the pinchweld as opposed to pushing the bottom of the wheel forwards (to increase caster) away from the pinchweld.
 
Please show me the confirmed accounts of 33s on a stock rig. Just don't see how that's possible, especially on a Limited with the flares. I think I may have read a thread or 2 but I don't think it's possible to have no rubbing through full suspension articulation with those size tires. Now if your going straight down the road and not turning they may not rub....

The caster spec for our rigs is 1.7 to 3.5. I maxed it out for better handling and to eliminate the rub at the pinch weld. Lessening caster increases the chance of rubbing on the pinchweld UNLESS you're using the UCA to adjust caster then it's the opposite as your actually tilting the top of the wheel backwards (to increase caster) towards the pinchweld as opposed to pushing the bottom of the wheel forwards (to increase caster) away from the pinchweld.

John, as I recall, there are two or three threads that I had found where posters commented, contrary to others in those discussions, that 285/75-16 can fit with no trimming or pounding, but on the correct spec'd 16 "wheels (16x8 4.5" BS 0 offset). I don't have those threads handy, but I got some confirmation of such in a thread I recently started on the Konig Countersteer wheels. I suppose I might not have been clear enough when I inquired about fitment issues though...

Really helpful information, and interesting too, on caster adjustment. Adding to my notes for when it's time for an alignment.

Question for you, two actually:

- Are you generally satisfied with your SCS purchase and how the wheels have held-up? At this point I'm willing to try these 17x8.5 wheels, with the F5s or Ray10s are being considered...

- Have you tried anything larger on these wheels, like maybe a 315/70-17 tire (34+)?
 
John, as I recall, there are two or three threads that I had found where posters commented, contrary to others in those discussions, that 285/75-16 can fit with no trimming or pounding, but on the correct spec'd 16 "wheels (16x8 4.5" BS 0 offset). I don't have those threads handy, but I got some confirmation of such in a thread I recently started on the Konig Countersteer wheels. I suppose I might not have been clear enough when I inquired about fitment issues though...

Really helpful information, and interesting too, on caster adjustment. Adding to my notes for when it's time for an alignment.

Question for you, two actually:

- Are you generally satisfied with your SCS purchase and how the wheels have held-up? At this point I'm willing to try these 17x8.5 wheels, with the F5s or Ray10s are being considered...

- Have you tried anything larger on these wheels, like maybe a 315/70-17 tire (34+)?
Heh, if x8 with 4.5" BS is "correctly spec'ed," then I guess I got the short end of the stick because even with my previous ~3.25" lift on a hotwheels-stiff front end I rubbed a bit on the back of the flares until I trimmed a bit, and this was just during daily driving. It rubbed a bit more during offroading, but I never flexed it much (mostly due to its stiffness, but also due to the moderate forest roads I was doing). With my softer front end and more aggressive offroading lately, I rub quite a bit more, mostly at the rear. Increasing caster by moving the upper joint rearwards would only exacerbate this problem except where I occasionally now rub the front passenger side at the coolant bottle bulge.

But yeah, I cannot imagine a way that a 33" tire could move through its entire articulation and turning arc on a flared 3rd gen without any rubbing. Are you sure the anecdotes you found weren't in reference to flareless rigs, or only in street driving?

Oh, I actually have about .5" between my sidewall and UCA, rubbing 285s on 16x8s with 4.5" backspace. A 315 adds 15mm, or about .6", to each side of the tire, so I would rub the [stock] UCAs with these wheels and 35s. However, 4.25 to 4" backspacing should work. Of course, that means more "persuasion," even with 33s.
 
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For the relationship between backspacing and offset, I found this cool chart:

EDU_wheel-offset-backspacing-conversion-chart.jpg

that chart is actually off a bit; wheel width is measured to to the inside of the bead seat wall (a measurement pertinent to tire suitability), whereas BS is measured to the outside of that wall's flange (a suspension clearance measurement.) - it isn't uncommon for 8" wide wheels to have an overall width of 8.5", for instance.

from what I can tell, that chart assumes that width is measured to the same point that BS is.
 
John, as I recall, there are two or three threads that I had found where posters commented, contrary to others in those discussions, that 285/75-16 can fit with no trimming or pounding, but on the correct spec'd 16 "wheels (16x8 4.5" BS 0 offset). I don't have those threads handy, but I got some confirmation of such in a thread I recently started on the Konig Countersteer wheels. I suppose I might not have been clear enough when I inquired about fitment issues though...

Really helpful information, and interesting too, on caster adjustment. Adding to my notes for when it's time for an alignment.

Question for you, two actually:

- Are you generally satisfied with your SCS purchase and how the wheels have held-up? At this point I'm willing to try these 17x8.5 wheels, with the F5s or Ray10s are being considered...

- Have you tried anything larger on these wheels, like maybe a 315/70-17 tire (34+)?

1. I LOVE the SCS rims. I got the RAY 10s but I honestly like them all. The Matte gray is almost a perfect match for the silver cladding trim on my Limited. I think I read in your build somewhere you didn't like the cladding color and were going to change it. I just wanted to get away from the black rims EVERYONE has now. My only very minor complaint is the fake beadlock holds "stuff" in it. But it does make the rim look smaller and deeper which I like.

2. I know for a fact 315s wont fit without a BL. I rubbed on my front flare when I turn until I trimmed it. It barely clears now. I also don't like the hit in gas mileage I've taken with the size I have now. Rides pretty good, especially after the EIMKEITH bracket mod and rear bump stops. I don't think I would go any bigger or taller as much as I like the look, I still have to drive it.
 
Heh, if x8 with 4.5" BS is "correctly spec'ed," then I guess I got the short end of the stick because even with my previous ~3.25" lift on a hotwheels-stiff front end I rubbed a bit on the back of the flares until I trimmed a bit, and this was just during daily driving. It rubbed a bit more during offroading, but I never flexed it much (mostly due to its stiffness, but also due to the moderate forest roads I was doing). With my softer front end and more aggressive offroading lately, I rub quite a bit more, mostly at the rear. Increasing caster by moving the upper joint rearwards would only exacerbate this problem except where I occasionally now rub the front passenger side at the coolant bottle bulge.

But yeah, I cannot imagine a way that a 33" tire could move through its entire articulation and turning arc on a flared 3rd gen without any rubbing. Are you sure the anecdotes you found weren't in reference to flareless rigs, or only in street driving?

Oh, I actually have about .5" between my sidewall and UCA, rubbing 285s on 16x8s with 4.5" backspace. A 315 adds 15mm, or about .6", to each side of the tire, so I would rub the [stock] UCAs with these wheels and 35s. However, 4.25 to 4" backspacing should work. Of course, that means more "persuasion," even with 33s.

I think you got me there. Something I missed. I can't say for sure on the flares, but I know I didn't make it a point to notice or inquire if those making such assertions had Limiteds or flares. Otherwise, the posters did off-road their trucks...

Appreciate the projection on 315s. The 17x8", 4.1" BS, -10mm offset might be a good choice seemingly. As you said, at the expense of 33 fitment. No free lunch, which I get. Trying to find that "happy" medium wheel of sorts for 33's and 35s...

that chart is actually off a bit; wheel width is measured to to the inside of the bead seat wall (a measurement pertinent to tire suitability), whereas BS is measured to the outside of that wall's flange (a suspension clearance measurement.) - it isn't uncommon for 8" wide wheels to have an overall width of 8.5", for instance.

from what I can tell, that chart assumes that width is measured to the same point that BS is.

I know what you mean Keith. Watched a good video a couple nights ago of someone making such measurements, noting that the referenced width was from inside, not the outside, and in his example, it too was a .5" delta. That would be a pretty glaring mistake. I lifted the chart from this page:

https://www.americastire.com/learn/offset-backspace

At the bottom they show a 6" width wheel as measured from the outside. Hmm....

1. I LOVE the SCS rims. I got the RAY 10s but I honestly like them all. The Matte gray is almost a perfect match for the silver cladding trim on my Limited. I think I read in your build somewhere you didn't like the cladding color and were going to change it. I just wanted to get away from the black rims EVERYONE has now. My only very minor complaint is the fake beadlock holds "stuff" in it. But it does make the rim look smaller and deeper which I like.

2. I know for a fact 315s wont fit without a BL. I rubbed on my front flare when I turn until I trimmed it. It barely clears now. I also don't like the hit in gas mileage I've taken with the size I have now. Rides pretty good, especially after the EIMKEITH bracket mod and rear bump stops. I don't think I would go any bigger or taller as much as I like the look, I still have to drive it.

Good stuff John and glad to hear that you feel very good about your SCS wheel purchase. The price difference in their wheels is pretty minimal, so not much of a factor, I feel. Appearance-wise, I'm leaning toward the RAY10s. With more material as compared to the F5s, they are a little over 2 pounds heavier, but with that, can take more max load, about 200+ lbs more. It will likely come-down to availability... That said, I likely won't be putting on wheels/tires until late this year, after skids, bumpers and suspension are in-place, so I can wait some.

Your memory is spot-on. In an ideal world, I wouldn't have a Limited. Not a fan of the flares and cladding, among other "upgrades". I however approve of them over the little square holes that would remain! Maybe I'll figure something out, someday... If keeping them, they will painted black, like the future bumpers and sliders. With that, likely yet another 3rd gen with black rims, to make you cringe :-)

Thanks for the feedback on 315s. I too recently received Keith's PCKs, so I'm glad to hear yet more good feedback. Still trying to find a good welder in these parts...

Here's a question for you, or anyone here... If you were to design a 17" wheel to accommodate both 33s and 35s on our 3rd gens, to strike that balance, what would those specs be?
 
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Here's a question for you, or anyone here... If you were to design a 17" wheel to accommodate both 33s and 35s on our 3rd gens, to strike that balance, what would those specs be?

I went with the FX PRO wheels - they're a great fit with 33s (285/70/17) during mock up stage (my truck is on jackstands atm)
 

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