Wheel shakes at speed, do these lower ball joints need replacing? [PICs]

[taxzz]

Thanks for looking in here and hopefully you can help me diagnose the issue with my first t4r.

2004 SR5, 98k miles.

My wheel shakes between 55-65 mph, not too bad, and not all the time. Probably 85%, and mostly only when driving dead straight. When braking at those speeds the shaking is 10x worse, not unbearable, but very annoying. Once I get below 50mph or so it goes away completely and doesn't really exist above 75mph at all.

I was told it could be a wheel balance issue and I may want to look into that first, but I wanted to share these pictures to see if anyone has any insight.

passenger side

drivers side

 

[RonJR]

Could be ball joint, given the greasy look, but 98K is really early for them to fail. I'd be more likely to suspect a stuck brake caliper.

Jack it up, grab the wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock, and try to rock it. Should be zero movement. Also put a 2x4 under the wheel and have someone pry up and down while you watch the ball joint. Again, should be no motion.

 

[EdmundGTP]

Tough to say..

Get yourself a pair of big ass channel lock pliers and check them.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_VfMZ0g31J8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MACT4R]

I had this issue recently and finally fixed it. I have an 03 4runner v8 with 217K miles and no issues with the lower ball joints. It was time for me to upgrade the tires and brake system anyways. I started with new tires and the shaking decreased. I had the front tires re-balanced properly resulting in minor shaking. I pressed the break and the shaking increased so I know that it could be the pads/rotors, which I haven't changed in 100K miles. I then changed the rotors and pads, went with centric from rockauto, which eliminated the shaking when braking but still have shaking around 55-65. I then notice that it pulls left when braking from high speed which I knew it was a stuck caliper. I changed the front calipers, centric from rockauto, which eliminated the shaking. Long story short, check your brake system such as pads, rotors, and calipers. Hope this helps.

 

[gtb129]

Checked your u-joints in your driveline? Doesn't account for the braking, but it could be a multiple issue thing

 

[Silver4RunnerIS300]

Could be ball joint, given the greasy look, but 98K is really early for them to fail. I'd be more likely to suspect a stuck brake caliper.

Jack it up, grab the wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock, and try to rock it. Should be zero movement. Also put a 2x4 under the wheel and have someone pry up and down while you watch the ball joint. Again, should be no motion.

This could also tell you if there is play in the wheel bearing. Something else to consider after balancing wheels and inspecting brakes.

 

[Erkelbot]

Have you checked the simple stuff like wheel weights? Unbalanced tires can also cause wobble at speeds like this, and it's a super cheap solution.

 

[Nyc-Runner]

I would say most like it's between a wheel/tire balance issue and they can change over time and your brake rotors are probably warped. Especially if it gets worse when you brake thats more than likely rotors. I had similar symptoms recently when braking at higher speeds i was getting really bad pulsating. I just did all new pads and rotors on all four corners and no more pulsating when braking!

 

[taxzz]

Could be ball joint, given the greasy look, but 98K is really early for them to fail. I'd be more likely to suspect a stuck brake caliper.

Jack it up, grab the wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock, and try to rock it. Should be zero movement. Also put a 2x4 under the wheel and have someone pry up and down while you watch the ball joint. Again, should be no motion.

can you explain how the 'rock it' you are referring to is supposed to work? you mean like push the top forward and the bottom towards the drivers seat?

Tough to say..

Get yourself a pair of big ass channel lock pliers and check them.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_VfMZ0g31J8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

thanks, I will look into this.

I had this issue recently and finally fixed it. I have an 03 4runner v8 with 217K miles and no issues with the lower ball joints. It was time for me to upgrade the tires and brake system anyways. I started with new tires and the shaking decreased. I had the front tires re-balanced properly resulting in minor shaking. I pressed the break and the shaking increased so I know that it could be the pads/rotors, which I haven't changed in 100K miles. I then changed the rotors and pads, went with centric from rockauto, which eliminated the shaking when braking but still have shaking around 55-65. I then notice that it pulls left when braking from high speed which I knew it was a stuck caliper. I changed the front calipers, centric from rockauto, which eliminated the shaking. Long story short, check your brake system such as pads, rotors, and calipers. Hope this helps.

it does seem to pull a bit to the right when braking, I do know that the BMW dealer I bought the car from replaced the rotors, or so the work order says.

Checked your u-joints in your driveline? Doesn't account for the braking, but it could be a multiple issue thing

interesting, i'll look into this as well, thanks.

This could also tell you if there is play in the wheel bearing. Something else to consider after balancing wheels and inspecting brakes.

ah okay coo.

Have you checked the simple stuff like wheel weights? Unbalanced tires can also cause wobble at speeds like this, and it's a super cheap solution.

no not yet, i figure I would need to have them completely balanced and I'm close to buying a new set of rubber anyway.

I would say most like it's between a wheel/tire balance issue and they can change over time and your brake rotors are probably warped. Especially if it gets worse when you brake thats more than likely rotors. I had similar symptoms recently when braking at higher speeds i was getting really bad pulsating. I just did all new pads and rotors on all four corners and no more pulsating when braking!

i would think the rotors were the issue too but when i got the t4r in December 2015 the BMW dealer I bought it from put it through service and replaced the front rotors, or so they say. they don't appear to be worn much and no ridges so I believed them at the time. I called a few weeks later to get a work/service order so I could have it for my records and the service dept said they did the rotor replacement.

 

[Nyc-Runner]

i would think the rotors were the issue too but when i got the t4r in December 2015 the BMW dealer I bought it from put it through service and replaced the front rotors, or so they say. they don't appear to be worn much and no ridges so I believed them at the time. I called a few weeks later to get a work/service order so I could have it for my records and the service dept said they did the rotor replacement.

My fronts didn't look warn at all either and still had a ton of life left but they were definitely warped! Being that their so new i wouldn't think they would warp that fast but you never know, maybe see if you can get them turned somewhere and see if that helps? My experience with warped rotors though is it's just better to replace them completely.

 

[taxzz]

My fronts didn't look warn at all either and still had a ton of life left but they were definitely warped! Being that their so new i wouldn't think they would warp that fast but you never know, maybe see if you can get them turned somewhere and see if that helps? My experience with warped rotors though is it's just better to replace them completely.

gave the dealer a call (6 mo after purchase) no dice on them taking any blame. not surprised and I should have called the first time I noticed the shake. I can deal with it for now so I will probably wait until I replace the tires to find out if that takes care of it, if not then onto rotor replacement.

 

[taxzz]

hey everyone,

So I got new tires and they were balanced and all that, shake persists.

Is the only option to replace rotors next? I suppose I can't really tell that's the issue unless I replace them, unsure of what the best option is.

 

[chompster4runner]

Make sure they are using a road force machine or whatever they call it. It simulates wheels on the road. Rather than a simple spin. Just had mine rebalanced for vibrations above 60mph. Steering wheel was wobbling. Oh and my lower ball joint looks just like yours. Got to get that fix next.

hey everyone,

So I got new tires and they were balanced and all that, shake persists.

Is the only option to replace rotors next? I suppose I can't really tell that's the issue unless I replace them, unsure of what the best option is.

 

[nevada]

My fronts didn't look warn at all either and still had a ton of life left but they were definitely warped! Being that their so new i wouldn't think they would warp that fast but you never know, maybe see if you can get them turned somewhere and see if that helps? My experience with warped rotors though is it's just better to replace them completely.

y usually are warped, but instead they get uneven friction material buildup. in fact, actual warped rotors is very uncommon.
as long as they are still above the specs, they can safely be resurfaced. this will correct the pulsation, be it from warp, or friction material.

hey everyone,

So I got new tires and they were balanced and all that, shake persists.

Is the only option to replace rotors next? I suppose I can't really tell that's the issue unless I replace them, unsure of what the best option is.

no change in the shaking? what you described sounds pretty much like classic tire/wheel balance issue.

 

[NinjaOne]

First guess would be brakes or still tire balance. I had to balance mine twice to get it right and remove shaking. Still shakes when braking at high speeds, but not enough to worry about.


As far as balljoints. All four of my balljoints and the LCA bushings failed at ~97k. Only real noticeable symptom was tire wear on the front. No shaking etc. Did feel more solid after replacement, but I think that's because I gained additional caster post-alignment. (cams were frozen before)

 

[taxzz]

y usually are warped, but instead they get uneven friction material buildup. in fact, actual warped rotors is very uncommon.
as long as they are still above the specs, they can safely be resurfaced. this will correct the pulsation, be it from warp, or friction material.


no change in the shaking? what you described sounds pretty much like classic tire/wheel balance issue.

no change at all. that was what was so weird.

i know its super uncommon for the rotor to be warped, but why would it shake the wheel (while not braking) at any speed even if it was warped?

 

[nevada]

no change at all. that was what was so weird.

i know its super uncommon for the rotor to be warped, but why would it shake the wheel (while not braking) at any speed even if it was warped?

it wouldn't. that is a tire/wheel/balance issue.

 

[Andy42]

i know its super uncommon for the rotor to be warped, but why would it shake the wheel (while not braking) at any speed even if it was warped?

It is not uncommon at all. I have never had a vehicle (and I have had quite a few now) with disc brakes that didn't eventually develop warped rotors. Rotors are a wear item.

I've been watching this thread because I've been experiencing intermittent wheel shake at highway speeds for quite awhile. I've had my tire shop re-balance the front tires three times so far this year and this last time both I and the manager observed and agreed the tires were balanced to perfection.

I had the front end checked out, and I had worn shocks & cracked bushings replaced, and a front end alignment. The problem remained and in fact it was getting worse on the last trip I made towing my camper. What was new however, was a lot of wheel shimmy when braking.

Yesterday I took it back to my mechanic and he went through everything. He confirmed the symptoms plus commented the brake pedal was pulsing too, which I had not noticed. Everything in the front end was nice and tight. The only thing they found was warped front rotors, so they turned them.

This morning I hit the freeway and voila! No more steering wheel vibration, it's steady like a rock up to 70 (as fast as I could go in traffic today). And smooth as glass with the brakes on, as well. I even noticed the lack of pedal pulsing (I must have gotten used to it).

So while conventional wisdom says wheel shimmy is a tire balance issue, I can now testify that's not always the case. Warped rotors were definitely causing the problem for me. I couldn't tell you why! :shrug:

 

[taxzz]

It is not uncommon at all. I have never had a vehicle (and I have had quite a few now) with disc brakes that didn't eventually develop warped rotors. Rotors are a wear item.

I've been watching this thread because I've been experiencing intermittent wheel shake at highway speeds for quite awhile. I've had my tire shop re-balance the front tires three times so far this year and this last time both I and the manager observed and agreed the tires were balanced to perfection.

I had the front end checked out, and I had worn shocks & cracked bushings replaced, and a front end alignment. The problem remained and in fact it was getting worse on the last trip I made towing my camper. What was new however, was a lot of wheel shimmy when braking.

Yesterday I took it back to my mechanic and he went through everything. He confirmed the symptoms plus commented the brake pedal was pulsing too, which I had not noticed. Everything in the front end was nice and tight. The only thing they found was warped front rotors, so they turned them.

This morning I hit the freeway and voila! No more steering wheel vibration, it's steady like a rock up to 70 (as fast as I could go in traffic today). And smooth as glass with the brakes on, as well. I even noticed the lack of pedal pulsing (I must have gotten used to it).

So while conventional wisdom says wheel shimmy is a tire balance issue, I can now testify that's not always the case. Warped rotors were definitely causing the problem for me. I couldn't tell you why! :shrug:

Thanks for the information. I think having them turned would definitely be the cheapest option, especially after having new tires just put on the truck. It just doesn't make any sense to me that it would shake without braking and only at a certain highway speed. I guess the balance is off just enough to cause it.

I'll go this route first. Do you know how much you paid to have the front rotors turned?

 

[Andy42]

I'll go this route first. Do you know how much you paid to have the front rotors turned?

$95 plus tax in Seattle, which is probably more expensive than average. I forgot to ask them if it was an on-car turn of if they removed them - I don't think it makes much difference if the shop knows what they are doing.

What you should do is ask the shop to check the rotors for "lateral runout", they can measure it very accurately, and will advise you if turning is actually necessary. They'll also measure uniformity of the thickness, and make sure there is enough material left to be able to take out the runout if there is any. A friendly independent shop will do the check gratis (especially if you are getting an oil change), or else for a very nominal fee. Stealerships will often want to charge you a bunch just to check it.

Good info here: Rotor Runout: Cause and Correction