Where does toyota measure ground clearance? Obviously not the skid plate.

[Falls]

I guess I was more concerned about the front L/S. I know Ford stopped making them in the front in early 90's. I could not even get one in a full size P/U truck.

Also does not indicate V6 4x4 option or V8 AWD. Option codes are also subject to regional area's, but don't get me wrong if you had a V8 1998 there is no way it had L/S diff's. on an all wheel drive( front's). It would especially tear up the front tire's so fast you would'nt believe it. That's why they did away with it on all the truck's in early 90's also reaked havoc on drive train's for those not educated on how 4x4's worked. All wheel drive is not 4 wheel drive. When I bought my 99 Expl. I ordered the best way for off road and therre was no L/S available for front diff's. I also had 3.73's. Because of how all wheel drive system's work a L/S for the back would not even make sense. An all wheel drive will never go off road where a 4wd will ( hense , no Lo-range ) or in my opinion will never go through deep snow like a 4 wd will.

Don't get me wrong I'm not calling you a BS'r at all, I'm just going off of my experience with my 99 and my buddy Merc. experience when we were out playing. so no offense intended to you at all....life's to short for that crap...lol. before I had my last truck Z71 Tahoe I was a Ford truck buyer since 85. I had an 85,87,89,93,95,99,01,03 all purchased new and ordered with as many of road goodie's as I could get.

Either way I think the 4R is what it's all about and yes there are thing's to get used to compared to what we've been used to driving,but this will run circle's around other thing's we've owned.

Now go get that lift and big tiire's....

Hey does OME have their own website ?? Do you know what it is ?

You know what after thinking this thing through I kept thinking of Locking Diff's, limited slip is still an open differential (per say) and will move traction from side to side and not lock them together like a 4x4 with a locker would.

An AWD kind of bounces the traction around to the wheel that's getting the most traction or spinning the most and think's it's getting traction , it also will bounce from front to back

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

I guess I was more concerned about the front L/S. I know Ford stopped making them in the fron in early 90's. I could not even get one in a full size P/U truck.

Also does not indicate V6 4x4 option or V8 AWD. Option codes are also subject to regional area's, but don't get me wrong if you had a V8 1998 there is no way it had L/S diff's. on an all wheel drive( front's). It would especially tear up the front tire's so fast you would'nt believe it. That's why they did away with it on all the truck's in early 90's also reaked havoc on drive train's for those not educated on how 4x4's worked. All wheel drive is not 4 wheel drive. When I bought my 99 Expl. I ordered the best way for off road and therre was no L/S available for front diff's. I also had 3.73's. Because of how all wheel drive system's work a L/S for the back would not even make sense. An all wheel drive will never go off road where a 4wd will ( hense , no Lo-range ) or in my opinion will never go through deep snow like a 4 wd will.

Don't get me wrong I'm not calling you a BS'r at all, I'm just going off of my experience with my 99 and my buddy Merc. experience when we were out playing. so no offense intended to you at all....life's to short for that crap...lol. before I had my last truck Z71 Tahoe I was a Ford truck buyer since 85. I had an 85,87,89,93,95,99,01,03 all purchased new and ordered with as many of road goodie's as I could get.

Either way I think the 4R is what it's all about and yes there are thing's to get used to compared to what we've been used to driving,but this will run circle's around other thing's we've owned.

Now go get that lift and big tiire's....

Hey does OME have their own website ?? Do you know what it is ?

I may have been wrong in that the front may have not had a limited slip but I am almost positive it did. I know for a fact the rear did. If I was in st. louis I could go out and look but I can't right now.

Based on driving two different 3rd gen expolorers in the snow my expeariance were the low range on the v6 may have been benificial for big rocks. But the low end torque was enough for anything that the awd 5.0l had clearance to approach( it was an explorer). I drove the both drivetrain variations out in deep snow out in colorado. They v6 sohc with the 4x4 would struggle to get traction compared to the v8 in snow. The v8 felt heavier in the snow and seemed to cut through to the surface better.

Either way your right in that lifes to short to worry about the small stuff. I hope your right in than it wil run circles around my old explorer off road. Thats why I bought it.

I do not know if ome has their own website...:cheers:

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

You know what after thinking this thing through I kept thinking of Locking Diff's, limited slip is still an open differential (per say) and will move traction from side to side and not lock them together like a 4x4 with a locker would.

\

Correct. A limited slip is not a locker. A limited slip acts as an open diferential but has clutch packs that engage once one side is spinning faster than the other and in simple form locks the other axle. and makes it spin.

It is open around corners but once one wheel starts to spin the clutch packs will destribute the torque to the other axle/wheel simple put.

I could spin all 4 tires in the snow on the awd explorer at the same time. In the 4x4 explorer it was 2 usually.

 

[Falls]

[B


I could spin all 4 tires in the snow on the awd explorer at the same time. In the 4x4 explorer it was 2 usually. [/B]

That's weird ! ??? who know's I guess. I liked my 99 Expl. I also has a set of BFG At's on it. I had that sohc V6 and it was 210 hp if I remember correctly, I went like hell, and even for a 99 has a tune system that would blow the 4R's away by a long shot & it was all factory. I think Ford called it a Mach system.Probably based off of what we have in the Cobra's .

One thing I'm so bummed out about with the 4R is the tune system. I have the premium 6 disk in dash Cd w/mp3 and it suck's . last time I has a tune system this bad (factory) was when I bought a chevy back in 81 ....lol. Even the JBL 10 speaker was better but still sucked IMO.

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

That's weird ! ??? who know's I guess. I liked my 99 Expl. I also has a set of BFG At's on it. I had that sohc V6 and it was 210 hp if I remember correctly, I went like hell, and even for a 99 has a tune system that would blow the 4R's away by a long shot & it was all factory. I think Ford called it a Mach system.Probably based off of what we have in the Cobra's .

One thing I'm so bummed out about with the 4R is the tune system. I have the premium 6 disk in dash Cd w/mp3 and it suck's . last time I has a tune system this bad (factory) was when I bought a chevy back in 81 ....lol. Even the JBL 10 speaker was better but still sucked IMO.

I was just thinking about the 2nd gen explorers and if I remember correctly the mountaineers were only available in the v8 awd setup. They are listed in the chart I posted also.

Yeah the 4.0l sohc's got a little more horsepower through the years. I didn't know they had a mach system in them. My 91 4.0l pushrod and 98 5.0l both had a jbl systems if I remember correctly. I don't remember what the 2000 with the v6 had in it but it was the limited.

Oh yeah and remember you still have the cobra. I sold mine for the 4runner because I needed to replace my v8 explorer as it was turning 180k miles on the original powertrain. It's still around and running.

I had a 10 jbl sub powered by 1600 watts wired in the cobra for the extra bass tones the factory speakers could not hit. I always thought the 460 tweaters were good but the speakers lack certain range in their bass tones and would bottom out. Maybe I just wore them out...... Either way this setup was good so I could still here the stereo clearly with the top down at highway speeds with some mac plowpaths welded in.

Now your making me miss it. GRRRR. JK. I got the 4runner for a reason and don't regret it at all.

Hey btw. Do you want some spare parts I have lying around. I have a 280 blower pulley, a 2.93 dial ur boost pulley (interchangeable kind) and new gatorback belt, The ford gt40 coil pack covers that say powered by ford. Probably a few other thing I am forgetting also if your interested. If you want a custom flash by one of the people who wrote the programs and stratigy tables for the cobra's I can set you up with the best. Of course This is assuming you aren't modded already....


:cheers:

 

[Falls]

I'm running a Magnaflow CB (might switch to Borla Stinger ) , K&N FIPK, SCT dyno tune , MGW shifter and pulled over 440 + ?? RWHP with that . We tuned it back and richened it up a little so I'm at 440 and a little safer . Not sure what will be next for mod's. Between my 4R and that and detailing I spend alot of money on car/truck stuff.....wife love's it .....NOT !!

With the demise of SVT I found 2 Cobra's convt's this weekend at dealer and they wanted huge $$$ . 1 2003 & 1 2004 , both in the mid $30's.....there fricken nut's !!! I'm sure some of it is seasonal with summer coming , but I sure don't know why the other big $$$ unless it's because of the SVT demise ?????

You know I love the car and as you know is scary fast,but sometime's I look at it just sittin in the garage and hardly ever getting driven and think , there is alot of money just sittin there doing nothing.I think last year I drove it maybe 10 time's.

Did you ever dyno your car ?? Lucky for me I have a guy here who is really into late model Mustang modification's and dyno tuning. He's got an awsome shop and does awsome work and he's only about 15 min. away.

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

I'm running a Magnaflow CB (might switch to Borla Stinger ) , K&N FIPK, SCT dyno tune , MGW shifter and pulled over 440 + ?? RWHP with that . We tuned it back and richened it up a little so I'm at 440 and a little safer . Not sure what will be next for mod's. Between my 4R and that and detailing I spend alot of money on car/truck stuff.....wife love's it .....NOT !!

With the demise of SVT I found 2 Cobra's convt's this weekend at dealer and they wanted huge $$$ . 1 2003 & 1 2004 , both in the mid $30's.....there fricken nut's !!! I'm sure some of it is seasonal with summer coming , but I sure don't know why the other big $$$ unless it's because of the SVT demise ?????

You know I love the car and as you know is scary fast,but sometime's I look at it just sittin in the garage and hardly ever getting driven and think , there is alot of money just sittin there doing nothing.I think last year I drove it maybe 10 time's.

Did you ever dyno your car ?? Lucky for me I have a guy here who is really into late model Mustang modification's and dyno tuning. He's got an awsome shop and does awsome work and he's only about 15 min. away.

Nice. Superchip tune. Superchips picked up one of the smartest young men and best in the business. Brian Herron is a good guy. Last I heard he went to vice president at superchips after selling his company "apten". I wonder if he is still there. He is a stand up guy.

Yes I dynoed it a few times. Stock down to the paper air filter it made made 369rwhp and 348 lbft of torque. After the blower pulley, tune, drop in k&N, and muffler swap i t put down 447 hp and 440lb torque. I then went to a whipple and made well over 600 hp. Funny thing was my vorteced 98 was scarier cause with it's narrower 255 tires I had on you could lite them up at 45ish and keep them spinning......

I average about 32k miles a year on my vehicles but I sold it for the same reason in that it was not functional for my everyday porposes and needs compared to how much it cost overall. It sure was fun though. I played with mustangs heavily for a while and kinda at least I think got my speed bug out of me.

 

[Falls]

WHIPPLE !!!

FRICKEN AWSOME !!! That's the cat's ass buddy !!

There is a guy in our group with one,he too is well over 600 hp....I can't even imagine that

Did you return it to stock when you sold or traded it ??? or did the whipple go with it ???

Did you have any cosmetic mod's at all ??

I guess me and you really got off topic and dominated this thread , sorry guy's.....

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

WHIPPLE !!!

FRICKEN AWSOME !!! That's the cat's ass buddy !!

There is a guy in our group with one,he too is well over 600 hp....I can't even imagine that

Did you return it to stock when you sold or traded it ??? or did the whipple go with it ???

Did you have any cosmetic mod's at all ??

I guess me and you really got off topic and dominated this thread , sorry guy's.....

Nothing visual on the outside other than a set of slightly wider tires in the rear...
It was bone stock when I sold it besides a subwoofer, amp, air filter were the only things I left on it.

Have you done the cooling mod to help keep 7&8 cilinders cool. Thats the weak link with high boost in the cobras as you probably know.

Sorry about taking over the thread also. We should continue this in a PM or the off topic section

 

[teotwaki]

..... The clearance is alright everywhere else for the most part . Why put the front so low to the ground? ......

The point about bumper alignment is interesting so as not to "terrorize" all of the micro-cars out there. :bonk:

I would also add that it is about gas mileage too. Using the odometer and gallons of gas used in the tank I could get 21 MPG on long drives ('05 V6). Now with 3"+ of front lift it looks as if I am down about 2 MPG. I am correcting the odometer numbers for the larger tire circumference.

Given the terrain that I recently went through in Utah, the added lift and larger tires were a big plus and my mileage is about 60% better than my '89 Bronco; 5.8L & C6 trans.

All in all I am very happy......

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

Re: Re: Where does toyota measure ground clearance? Obviously not the skid plate.

Given the terrain that I recently went through in Utah, the added lift and larger tires were a big plus and my mileage is about 60% better than my '89 Bronco; 5.8L & C6 trans.

All in all I am very happy......

How does the 4runner compare to the bronco as far as out of the box off-roadability and also the bronco compared to the 4runner with the lift and tires. I'm interested in hearing your perspective since you have most likely put both through their paces out in the sticks.....

:cheers:

 

[RonMAIDEN]

A few questions
Does the tacoma skid plate you have give you better clearance than the stock one? Are your tires approxemetly a half inch taller than the oem size? Stock suspension and what year 3rd gen?

I actually remove the skidplate for off road since it just good for looks and is just a short plate to pretend to protect the lower bumper and it does shave off about a half inch clearance. The stock '02 brackets even lower the skidplate and move it forward another two inches so my custom brackets keep the plate as close to the bumper as possible.

Yes,my tires are probably a half inch taller than the 265/70 that came stock plus it's a '99 so it has the coils with one more wind than others so it does have a few advantages right from the showroom plus it's got the locker.

 

[teotwaki]

Re: Re: Re: Where does toyota measure ground clearance? Obviously not the skid plate.

How does the 4runner compare to the bronco as far as out of the box off-roadability and also the bronco compared to the 4runner with the lift and tires. I'm interested in hearing your perspective since you have most likely put both through their paces out in the sticks.....

:cheers:

It is funny to compare them as the early 4Runners were "Baby Broncos" with the fiberglass add on shell, two doors and a tailgate power window. It ironic that the 4Runner outlasted the Bronco! Shame on Ford.

My model year Bronco is a little large compared to it's 1960's grandparents, but it is still very capable. The 3 speed C-6 trans is bulletproof and has no computer to die. The 5.8L V-8 is a beast with direct port fuel injection and gobs of torque. The axles both had Factory limited slips with manual locking hubs on the front and a 2-speed transfer case.

Full sized Broncos came only in 4WD. 2WD was never optional.

It boasts a great 35 foot turning radius as well as:

Angle of approach 37.5 degrees
Angle of departure 23.4 degrees
Breakover angle 24.9 degrees

Ground clearance (lowest points with stock tires)
-- Front axle 8.1 inches
-- Rear Axle 7.8 inches
-- At Breakover 9.6 inches

Most everything underneath had stock skid plates of fairly tough steel. You could often bash rocks with the axles and not care.

The stock front axle was a hybrid that had a center pivot point called "Twin Traction Beam" with dual shocks and large coil springs.

I think it was my first American auto where I did not have to slam a door. to make it close It would close easily and with a satisfying click. Overall fit and finish was good but does not compare to a 3rd or 4th Gen 4Runner at all.

The rear bumper is all steel and recently a 99 Beetle rear-ended me at 40 MPH. The Bug was totaled. I got a new bumper for $250.

A stock Bronco can whup a stock 4Runner in most everything off road except where smaller size will get you through places more easily. A Bronco can carry all of your gear internally whereas my 4Runner had to use a roof basket on my last trip.

A 4Runner lifted is a different story.....

On my Utah trip my friend had a stock Sequoia, sort of the size and power equivilant of the Bronco. Many times I stopped for photos while he ambled ahead. I could race across the desert roads and easily catch him. I climbed two difficult sections with more ease than he did and I garnered better gas mileage too.

A 4Runner is more like a smaller but very refined modern Bronco: quiet, reliable, solid drivetrain, great amenities and cool styling.
It is a little more like a sports car than a truck but built quite tough. I really love mine without any guilt. The Bronco will stay in the family for a long while but the 13 MPG and 32 Gallon gas tank will keep it on a short leash.

 

[Mr. Lambdebois]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Where does toyota measure ground clearance? Obviously not the skid plate.

It is funny to compare them as the early 4Runners were "Baby Broncos" with the fiberglass add on shell, two doors and a tailgate power window. It ironic that the 4Runner outlasted the Bronco! Shame on Ford.

My model year Bronco is a little large compared to it's 1960's grandparents, but it is still very capable. The 3 speed C-6 trans is bulletproof and has no computer to die. The 5.8L V-8 is a beast with direct port fuel injection and gobs of torque. The axles both had Factory limited slips with manual locking hubs on the front and a 2-speed transfer case.

Full sized Broncos came only in 4WD. 2WD was never optional.

It boasts a great 35 foot turning radius as well as:

Angle of approach 37.5 degrees
Angle of departure 23.4 degrees
Breakover angle 24.9 degrees

Ground clearance (lowest points with stock tires)
-- Front axle 8.1 inches
-- Rear Axle 7.8 inches
-- At Breakover 9.6 inches

Most everything underneath had stock skid plates of fairly tough steel. You could often bash rocks with the axles and not care.

The stock front axle was a hybrid that had a center pivot point called "Twin Traction Beam" with dual shocks and large coil springs.

I think it was my first American auto where I did not have to slam a door. to make it close It would close easily and with a satisfying click. Overall fit and finish was good but does not compare to a 3rd or 4th Gen 4Runner at all.

The rear bumper is all steel and recently a 99 Beetle rear-ended me at 40 MPH. The Bug was totaled. I got a new bumper for $250.

A stock Bronco can whup a stock 4Runner in most everything off road except where smaller size will get you through places more easily. A Bronco can carry all of your gear internally whereas my 4Runner had to use a roof basket on my last trip.

A 4Runner lifted is a different story.....

On my Utah trip my friend had a stock Sequoia, sort of the size and power equivilant of the Bronco. Many times I stopped for photos while he ambled ahead. I could race across the desert roads and easily catch him. I climbed two difficult sections with more ease than he did and I garnered better gas mileage too.

A 4Runner is more like a smaller but very refined modern Bronco: quiet, reliable, solid drivetrain, great amenities and cool styling.
It is a little more like a sports car than a truck but built quite tough. I really love mine without any guilt. The Bronco will stay in the family for a long while but the 13 MPG and 32 Gallon gas tank will keep it on a short leash.

Sweet description. I am familiar with the full size bronco but obviously not a familiar as you. I thougt it was called a twin I beam setup. My 91 explorer had the same setup. The idea behind it was that it would give you the strength of a solid axle while the ride of an ifs. Obviously it was a trade off in between each but still worked well. The funny part with that type of a suspension setup was that if the caster was set the same on it they would pull. Setting it up with a differance in caster side to side resulted in them driving straight.

And yes the one I had the an oppourtunity to play around in one that was a friends. It got horrible gas mialage but I really thought about buying one for a while after driving one around the mountains. I loved the 351W engine. I remember how usefull it's approach angle was over my explorer. If could get places I couldn't in my explorer simply because it's front bumper could clear the steep obsticle when the explorers bumper would be pushing into the dirt/rock/ snow or whatever....(one of my few complaints with the new 4runner is clearance at it's front skid plate)



:cheers:

edit... Check this link out. We were referring to the same thing just by different names....Upon further reading. The differance may be that the traction beam is fitted with a differential like you said. Hmmm I always referred to it as a twin I beam. Thats may be the differance or it is just a different name.

Here is a link that referrs to is as a twin traction beam but you can see that the 1st gen explorer's did have them.


http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/Spring2003/TTBTuning.htm

 

[RonMAIDEN]

My family owned two Broncos through the '80s and into the '90s and they were tough but quality had some issues and the fiberglass tops didn't deal with sunlight very well after 6-7 years even if you cared for it. My parents had their '84 for 5 years before my mom rolled it then she got a new '89 and kept that through the '90s and it finally croaked out at 140k as it was just falling apart after 11 years and now my mom owns a '99 Runner Limited and hasn't looked at a Ford since.
My dad handled the off road chores in the '84 quite a few times and it handled underbody scrapes nicely but it's width caused a concern sometimes and most trails in Colorado can be narrow.

Nice trucks for their time and a solid off road performer due to it's solid construction but to say it whups ass on a stock 4Runner (3rd gen) is a bit of an exaggeration. My '99 only has an inch bigger tires and has clearance over everything on a stock Bronco by over a couple inches without my tires. I think they are comparable but the 4Runner does it much more comfortably and having a locking rear diff can be the difference of making it up a hill or not.

 

[teotwaki]

My family owned two Broncos through the '80s and into the '90s and they were tough but quality had some issues and the fiberglass tops didn't deal with sunlight very well after 6-7 years even if you cared for it. My parents had their '84 for 5 years before my mom rolled it then she got a new '89 and kept that through the '90s and it finally croaked out at 140k as it was just falling apart after 11 years and now my mom owns a '99 Runner Limited and hasn't looked at a Ford since.
My dad handled the off road chores in the '84 quite a few times and it handled underbody scrapes nicely but it's width caused a concern sometimes and most trails in Colorado can be narrow.

Nice trucks for their time and a solid off road performer due to it's solid construction but to say it whups ass on a stock 4Runner (3rd gen) is a bit of an exaggeration. My '99 only has an inch bigger tires and has clearance over everything on a stock Bronco by over a couple inches without my tires. I think they are comparable but the 4Runner does it much more comfortably and having a locking rear diff can be the difference of making it up a hill or not.

Mine has 265,000 miles so I guess my production run was a very good one.

I may not have been clear but my stock 89 Bronco could whip my 2005 Gen 4Runner (when it was stock) almost anywhere off road.

A 3rd gen has far more clearance than a 4th gen but that was Toyota's change.

E-locker was not an option for a 4th Gen but limited slips were for my Bronco. 4Runners have not been free of quality issues, maybe just less of them?

Agreed on narrow trails and I mentioned it earlier.

My Bronco is 16 years old (bought Jan '90) and the fiberglass roof is in great shape.

I think that the stock Bronco engine with 210 HP and 315 ft-lbs of torque will crush any generation 4Runner's stock V6. Probably have to look at power to weight ratios.

Ground clearance numbers will clearly be a point of contention as they are the measured absolute low points and a good driver can easily compensate if the rest of the truck is higher. The 4Runner has a broad flat low point up front where the Bronco's is at the bottom of the differential housing. The Bronco's steel axle is far stronger than the stock sheet metal "skid plate" on the 4Runner and will take a lot more abuse.

Thanks for the comments as you are coming from the experience of two different automaker's wares and not just opinions.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Yes,the Broncos's undercarriage does have solid armor and can take a whack from a rock and come away with just a few scratches as my dad did hit a few much to the chagrin of my mom who hated the off road trips.

I miss the old Broncos and OJ's infamous police chase may have ended their run prematurely since Ford wanted to not be connected with that image so they came out with an "Escape" to replace it. :arrow:

 

[teotwaki]

I miss the old Broncos and OJ's infamous police chase may have ended their run prematurely since Ford wanted to not be connected with that image so they came out with an "Escape" to replace it. :arrow:

Bad pun! Ouch :bonk: Ouch :bonk: Ouch :bonk:

 

[Thai]

Here is an interesting tidbit. Lexus GX470 has a ground clearance of 8.3"...and this number has been consistent since introduction, unlike 4runner's number (which seems to get higher every year). And i doubt that the GX has anything that hangs lower than 4runner...both share the same frame and underbody. Apparently, the bumpers are also about the same since both vehicles have very similar approach/departure angles.

So, the question is...who is right?? From my experience, Lexus has always been consistent with it's data. Toyota data has been inconsistent and changes every year (ground clearance, payload, angles). And i do believe that 8.3" is about right for the front skidplate/crossmember.

 

[teotwaki]

My Bonco and 4Runner side by side