Who in Atlanta wants to help remove my front diff?

Robb235

Senior Member
I'm planning on swapping out my oil pan for one that I had a -10 AN oil return bung welded onto. But before I can do that, I need to drop the front differential first.

I'm hoping maybe someone around Atlanta would like to give me a hand? If someone has a shop I can borrow, I'll gladly pay you in beer, or my wife's homemade brownies, or both. I'd like to avoid driving all the way up to Tennessee to do this at my dad's place, and my apartment complex tends to frown upon people working on their vehicles in the parking lot.

I figure I can drop the front diff this weekend, drive around with 2wd only for a week, then swap oil pans the next weekend.

Any takers?

Picture of the oil pan:
gata9u3a.jpg


8azedesu.jpg
 
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I figure I can drop the front diff this weekend, drive around with 2wd only for a week, then swap oil pans the next weekend.

You cannot drive without a front diff unless you swap in 2wd front knuckles. The cv axles will still be in there and even if you remove them, they probably clamp the wheel bearing to the front hub assembly...

Max
 
You cannot drive without a front diff unless you swap in 2wd front knuckles. The cv axles will still be in there and even if you remove them, they probably clamp the wheel bearing to the front hub assembly...

Max

I see. Thanks for the heads up.

Any takers for next weekend, 8/9 or 8/10?
 
You cannot drive without a front diff unless you swap in 2wd front knuckles. The cv axles will still be in there and even if you remove them, they probably clamp the wheel bearing to the front hub assembly...



Max


What? You most certainly can run these with no cv's or front diff.
 
What? You most certainly can run these with no cv's or front diff.

There will be too much pressure on the wheel bearing and it will fail after a very short drive. The wheel bearing for 4wd spindles was designed around having a spline shaft in the middle to evenly distribute forces.

OP, if you just so happen to have a junk set of CV's, you can cut the boot, remove the shaft and inner joint and leave the outer joint clamped in the spindle...
I ran like that for around 1k miles :D
 
There will be too much pressure on the wheel bearing and it will fail after a very short drive. The wheel bearing for 4wd spindles was designed around having a spline shaft in the middle to evenly distribute forces.

OP, if you just so happen to have a junk set of CV's, you can cut the boot, remove the shaft and inner joint and leave the outer joint clamped in the spindle...
I ran like that for around 1k miles :D

Gotcha.

I guess I'll drop the diff and change the oil pan at the same time. This is my daily driver, so I'm looking to keep downtime to a weekend or less at a time. Planning on doing this next weekend.
 
I second the fact that you can drive with the diff removed. The remove the whole diff and cv. Simple. You'll just have an open hub on the inside vs a dust cap like 2wd models. No big deal to drive around like that for a week. Just don't go mudding or in water..
 
No you can't drive without an outer cv joint holding the bearing. The 2wd bearings are different. It is very dangerous to drive without the bearing being held together with the cv axle you can be going down the road have the bearing fail and have your tire go trough someone's windshield a and kill them. You'd then be responsible for man slaughter and go to prison. Just get it done in one weekend. Really shouldn't be that hard
 
Gotcha.

I guess I'll drop the diff and change the oil pan at the same time. This is my daily driver, so I'm looking to keep downtime to a weekend or less at a time. Planning on doing this next weekend.

Hey, you fly me out to ATL and I'll help you change things out :D
 
Hey, you fly me out to ATL and I'll help you change things out :D

Lol, thanks for the offer. I'm actually meeting up with a forum member at his place next weekend. My wife is also flying out of town next Saturday, so that should give me plenty of free time as well :D
 
No you can't drive without an outer cv joint holding the bearing. The 2wd bearings are different. It is very dangerous to drive without the bearing being held together with the cv axle you can be going down the road have the bearing fail and have your tire go trough someone's windshield a and kill them. You'd then be responsible for man slaughter and go to prison. Just get it done in one weekend. Really shouldn't be that hard


Joseph, please understand the mechanics of these vehicles before spouting off. The bearings are pressed in and the CV is not responsible for holding it in place. This would a poor engineering design something like Daewoo may use. The 2wd bearing may be different but the spindles are the same IIRC, otherwise a 2wd to 4wd conversion would be less practical. I have conducted many multi hour trips with my T4R missing the third, both with and with out cv's (remove the cv's if not running manual hubs). Here's a not so great picture of the back of the spindle

Oh and the third is out along with cv's so I can do some motor work......again nothing has happened. Another point I should add to your pile of rubbish is that while the manual hub tacomas and 4runners that are floating around out there require an 12mm bolt and washer to retain the cv end where the ADD only units do not further making your claim inaccurate. For example if the cv held the bearing in place and no retention kept the cv and bearing together other than a snap ring what's to keep it together at all?
 
Here are some pics of this wrench-a-thon. Seems we are going to have to stage a valve cover replacement party in Atlanta soon.






Last pic I wanted to emphasize the tubes on top of the diff for a ADD setup, what a nighmare
 
Huge thanks to Link817 for allowing me to use his garage and tools, and also providing lots of help and guidance. This was the first time I've actually messed with the 4wd hardware of any vehicle, so I learned quite a bit. Removing and installing the front diff was a huge pain, however once it was off, swapping the oil pan was pretty mild. Then it was back to wrestling the diff again to get it reinstalled.
 
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Joseph, please understand the mechanics of these vehicles before spouting off. The bearings are pressed in and the CV is not responsible for holding it in place. This would a poor engineering design something like Daewoo may use. The 2wd bearing may be different but the spindles are the same IIRC, otherwise a 2wd to 4wd conversion would be less practical. I have conducted many multi hour trips with my T4R missing the third, both with and with out cv's (remove the cv's if not running manual hubs). Here's a not so great picture of the back of the spindle

Oh and the third is out along with cv's so I can do some motor work......again nothing has happened. Another point I should add to your pile of rubbish is that while the manual hub tacomas and 4runners that are floating around out there require an 12mm bolt and washer to retain the cv end where the ADD only units do not further making your claim inaccurate. For example if the cv held the bearing in place and no retention kept the cv and bearing together other than a snap ring what's to keep it together at all?

I am going to contest this here, because I don't want someone with less knowledge to see your post and think "Oh I should be fine." Because that's not the reality of it, and here's why:
First off, and I'm sure you're very aware of this, is that the CV outer joint protects the bearing from dirt, grease, oil water coolant rocks and so on. Easy solution? You could duct tape the hole, doesn't matter. Cover it somehow.
Second, the hub is held against the outer bearing race because of the torque on the CV nut. Without this pressure, the hub will at some point become loose due to lack of tension and you'll get some wheel wobble. No matter if the bearing is pressed in or not, this is an essential engineering design for an ADD truck.
This video is a great demonstration of it, even though it isn't toyota.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMyTWMnOO0s

Third, your argument that it would be poor engineering is, well, poor. Toyota designed the 4wd bearings, engineered them around having a CV spindle inside of it. I'm not sure what Toyota did with their 2wd bearings and hub. They did not design their 4wd trucks, however, to function without one, even if yours have held together (and I hope they continue to do so, for your safety.) If you can provide me a FSM or any documentation stating that Toyota considers this safe, I will eat my words. And as for why yours haven't failed yet? Luck, coincidence, but definitely not by "engineering design."
Couple other threads:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/139884-driving-without-cv-axle.html

Driving Without cv axle/front diff - YotaTech Forums

"The stock ADD/permanent flange basically uses a semi-floater design, so the outer CV is absolutely necessary to be in place to hold the hub/spindle against the wheel bearings. Do not drive without the outer CV properly bolted into place to hold everything together!"
Source: Step 10 of the 3rd gen CV DIY most of us have seen:
Toyota Maintenance: CV Axle Replacement on 3rd Generation 4Runners and Tacomas


OP, I apologize for cluttering your thread with this. Again, I just want to ensure that no 4runner owner considers leaving the CV completely out of their truck should they need to perform service like you did.
 

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