Who's the next president?
- Thread starter MikesToy
- Start date
As I stated..
I believe we need to stop being so partisan and start looking at the facts..
If looking at the Facts are being partisan to you... then so be it.. To me it's when you have a person like Sarah Palin who has been brutally attacked for accepting the VP postion.. What was her crime? and people like "Joe the Plumber" who's only sin was to ask a question of Obama.. That's Being Partisan.
Sonrunner...
I forgot to mention your Partisan Video that you posted...
Here is a Partisan Article that you might want to read...
Record Versus Rhetoric
Thomas Sowell
Friday, October 17, 2008
Apparently there is something about Sarah Palin that causes some people to think of her as either the best of candidates or the worst of candidates. She draws enthusiastic crowds and provokes visceral hostility in the media.
The issue that is raised most often is her relative lack of experience and the fact that she would be "a heartbeat away from the presidency" if Senator John McCain were elected. But Barack Obama has even less experience-- none in an executive capacity-- and his would itself be the heartbeat of the presidency if he were elected.
Sarah Palin's record is on the record, while whole years of Barack Obama's life are engulfed in fog, and he has had to explain away one after another of the astounding and vile people he has not merely "associated" with but has had political alliances with, and to whom he has directed the taxpayers' money and other money.
Sarah Palin has had executive experience-- and the White House is the executive branch of government. We don't have to judge her by her rhetoric because she has a record.
We don't know what Barack Obama will actually do because he has actually done very little for which he was personally accountable. Even as a state legislator, he voted "present" innumerable times instead of taking a stand one way or the other on tough issues.
"Clean up the mess in Washington"? He was part of the mess in Chicago and lined up with the Daley machine against reformers.
He is also part of the mess in Washington, not only with numerous earmarks, but also as the Senate's second largest recipient of money from Fannie Mae, and someone whose campaign has this year sought the advice of disgraced former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines, who was at the heart of the subprime crisis.
Why then the enthusiasm for Obama and the hostility to Sarah Palin in the media?
One reason of course is that Senator Obama is ideologically much closer to the views of the media than is Governor Palin. But there is more than that. There are other conservative politicians who do not evoke such anger, spite and hate.
Sarah Palin is the one real outsider among the four candidates for the presidency and vice-presidency on the Republican and Democratic tickets. Her whole career has been spent outside the Washington Beltway.
More than that, her whole life has been outside the realm familiar to the intelligentsia of the media. She didn't go to the big-name colleges and imbibe the heady atmosphere that leaves so many feeling that they are special folks. She doesn't talk the way they talk or think the way they think.
Worse yet, from the media's perspective, Sarah Palin does not seek their Good Housekeeping seal of approval.
Much is made of Senator Joe Biden's "experience." But Frederick the Great said that experience matters only when valid conclusions are drawn from it.
Senator Biden's "experience" has been a long history of being on the wrong side of issue after issue in foreign policy. He was one of those Senators who voted to pull the plug on financial aid to South Vietnam, which was still defending itself from Communist invaders after the pullout of American troops.
Biden opposed Ronald Reagan's military buildup that helped win the Cold War. He opposed the surge in Iraq last year.
Sarah Palin will not be ready to become President of the United States on the first day that she and John McCain take office. Nobody is.
But being Vice President is a job that can allow a lot of time for studying, and everything about Governor Palin's career says that she is a bright gal with her head on straight. The country needs that far more than it needs people with glib answers to media "gotcha" questions.
Whatever the shortcomings of John McCain and Sarah Palin, they are people whose values are the values of this nation, whose loyalty and dedication to this country's fundamental institutions are beyond question because they have not spent decades working with people who hate America. Nor are they people whose judgments have been proved wrong consistently during decades of Beltway "experience."
Copyright
I forgot to mention your Partisan Video that you posted...
Here is a Partisan Article that you might want to read...
Record Versus Rhetoric
Thomas Sowell
Friday, October 17, 2008
Apparently there is something about Sarah Palin that causes some people to think of her as either the best of candidates or the worst of candidates. She draws enthusiastic crowds and provokes visceral hostility in the media.
The issue that is raised most often is her relative lack of experience and the fact that she would be "a heartbeat away from the presidency" if Senator John McCain were elected. But Barack Obama has even less experience-- none in an executive capacity-- and his would itself be the heartbeat of the presidency if he were elected.
Sarah Palin's record is on the record, while whole years of Barack Obama's life are engulfed in fog, and he has had to explain away one after another of the astounding and vile people he has not merely "associated" with but has had political alliances with, and to whom he has directed the taxpayers' money and other money.
Sarah Palin has had executive experience-- and the White House is the executive branch of government. We don't have to judge her by her rhetoric because she has a record.
We don't know what Barack Obama will actually do because he has actually done very little for which he was personally accountable. Even as a state legislator, he voted "present" innumerable times instead of taking a stand one way or the other on tough issues.
"Clean up the mess in Washington"? He was part of the mess in Chicago and lined up with the Daley machine against reformers.
He is also part of the mess in Washington, not only with numerous earmarks, but also as the Senate's second largest recipient of money from Fannie Mae, and someone whose campaign has this year sought the advice of disgraced former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines, who was at the heart of the subprime crisis.
Why then the enthusiasm for Obama and the hostility to Sarah Palin in the media?
One reason of course is that Senator Obama is ideologically much closer to the views of the media than is Governor Palin. But there is more than that. There are other conservative politicians who do not evoke such anger, spite and hate.
Sarah Palin is the one real outsider among the four candidates for the presidency and vice-presidency on the Republican and Democratic tickets. Her whole career has been spent outside the Washington Beltway.
More than that, her whole life has been outside the realm familiar to the intelligentsia of the media. She didn't go to the big-name colleges and imbibe the heady atmosphere that leaves so many feeling that they are special folks. She doesn't talk the way they talk or think the way they think.
Worse yet, from the media's perspective, Sarah Palin does not seek their Good Housekeeping seal of approval.
Much is made of Senator Joe Biden's "experience." But Frederick the Great said that experience matters only when valid conclusions are drawn from it.
Senator Biden's "experience" has been a long history of being on the wrong side of issue after issue in foreign policy. He was one of those Senators who voted to pull the plug on financial aid to South Vietnam, which was still defending itself from Communist invaders after the pullout of American troops.
Biden opposed Ronald Reagan's military buildup that helped win the Cold War. He opposed the surge in Iraq last year.
Sarah Palin will not be ready to become President of the United States on the first day that she and John McCain take office. Nobody is.
But being Vice President is a job that can allow a lot of time for studying, and everything about Governor Palin's career says that she is a bright gal with her head on straight. The country needs that far more than it needs people with glib answers to media "gotcha" questions.
Whatever the shortcomings of John McCain and Sarah Palin, they are people whose values are the values of this nation, whose loyalty and dedication to this country's fundamental institutions are beyond question because they have not spent decades working with people who hate America. Nor are they people whose judgments have been proved wrong consistently during decades of Beltway "experience."
Copyright
Denio said:
That was good for a laugh. Apparently the rest of the country agrees with me because it has now been documented that Sarah Palin has an overall negative affect on the McCain campaign. She didn't even know what the Vice President did prior to be asked to do the job, and then was found to have acted unethical in her home state, by her fellow Republicans. Stay classy Palin!
You guys see that Palin is all over the media today for spending $150k on outfits and make-up for the campaign? Even the Republican pundits are angry... poor Palin!
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14805.html
Yikes!
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14805.html
Yikes!
TheBlueWave
New member
Ok, I'm officially out of this one, based on the post above. This was supposed to talk about issues, not campaign spending. Its not cheap to get in front of cameras, and this issue is of little to no importance.
Not like you guys will miss my commentary, but this is getting out of hand.:awais:
Let Thai vs. SonRunner commence!
Not like you guys will miss my commentary, but this is getting out of hand.:awais:
Let Thai vs. SonRunner commence!
Thai
Elite Member
And Obama and company are different?? You mean Obama and his wife shop at Walmart?? Cool...i may vote for him if he actually does that! 
BTW, when did this become an issue for candidates?? Hmmm, to me, it shows that YOU are indeed grasping for straws!! Pretty sad and pathetic.... 
Once again, why do you even care about how other folks spend their money???? If you don't know what the situation is, then why open your mouth to give advise or criticize???!! Typical Demoncratic low blow double-standard BS!
Hmmm, do you work for MSNBC or CNN?? Because if you do, then i am sure that you saw the memo where they admitted to the double standard in their journalistic work!
Do you see me criticize Obama for having the largest advertising budget in the history?? It is HIS and HIS supporter's money...i don't give a crap how he spends it...as long as it is not to fund terrorists or on things that affect my family.
The bottom line is that, EVEN Biden subconciously (Freudian slip??) questions Obama's credentials. For Biden to say such things proves that Obama is questionable as a Presidential candidate even in the eyes of his BIGGEST supporter!
As for Kennedy, i stand by my original statements. And for Biden to use him as an example shows clearly what Biden was meaning...or that Biden is an idiot...which then makes Palin all that more attractive!
SonRunner can twist this back and forth with screwed up logic (due to his love for Obama), but it is pretty clear on what Biden said. You gotta have blind love for a person to not see this!!
BTW, when did this become an issue for candidates?? Hmmm, to me, it shows that YOU are indeed grasping for straws!! Pretty sad and pathetic.... Once again, why do you even care about how other folks spend their money???? If you don't know what the situation is, then why open your mouth to give advise or criticize???!! Typical Demoncratic low blow double-standard BS!
Hmmm, do you work for MSNBC or CNN?? Because if you do, then i am sure that you saw the memo where they admitted to the double standard in their journalistic work!
Do you see me criticize Obama for having the largest advertising budget in the history?? It is HIS and HIS supporter's money...i don't give a crap how he spends it...as long as it is not to fund terrorists or on things that affect my family.
The bottom line is that, EVEN Biden subconciously (Freudian slip??) questions Obama's credentials. For Biden to say such things proves that Obama is questionable as a Presidential candidate even in the eyes of his BIGGEST supporter!
As for Kennedy, i stand by my original statements. And for Biden to use him as an example shows clearly what Biden was meaning...or that Biden is an idiot...which then makes Palin all that more attractive!
SonRunner can twist this back and forth with screwed up logic (due to his love for Obama), but it is pretty clear on what Biden said. You gotta have blind love for a person to not see this!!
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SonRunner said:
I have to put in my two cents about Wikipedia..
"Wikipedia is a flawed and irresponsible research tool," Seigenthaler wrote.
The communally produced compendium has become an accepted source of information for millions of Web surfers. With 2.5 billion page views a month, it is the second-most visited reference site on the Web (after Dictionary.com), according to Hitwise.
But critics say Wikipedia leaves the door open for anyone who wants to rewrite history, whether it's your neighbor with a grudge, a nut job floating a conspiracy theory or someone repeating an urban legend. As with other Web sources such as blogs, its accuracy can be hard to judge.
Here is the link I took my info from..
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/06/WIKI.TMP
Thai
Elite Member
SonRunner said:
How different is that from Obama spending millions/billions on TV ads?? Does Obama shop at Salvation Army??
Double standard BS.
Maybe you're too blind to see how ridiculous your post sounds...again, so clothes are important but previous associations are not?
Which is more important for the Presidency??
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Denio said:
Fair enough. I agree Wikipedia can be unreliable. So here it is from CBS news by way of US News (not exactly a liberal rag):
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/17/usnews/whispers/main4527926.shtml
(US News) Joe Wurzelbacher, the plumber so often referred to by Sen. John McCain in the third and final debate had better learn to shut his mouth. The more he speaks publicly, the more he looks like the GOP plant liberal blogs are starting to claim that he is. Watch him calling Social Security a "joke" on YouTube:
I'm no fan of tax hikes, but even I recognize Social Security is no "joke." It has single-handedly lifted millions of elderly and disabled Americans out of poverty and turned America's elderly from the most impoverished age demographic to one with an income more in line with that of working families.
Joe the Plumber so loves media attention, he's drawing pro-Obama bloggers to question his authenticity as an undecided voter:
Joe has been on so many right wing talk shows it appears pretty obvious that this is a coordinated attempt to pull a last second 'tax and spend' haymaker. Family Security Matters, a wingnut security policy thinktank, has the first interview with Joe after this Obama encounter. Hmmm. What's the chance that a group like this gets the first interview with this alleged 'undecided voter'?
Other blogs say Wurzelbacher may be related to Charles Keating of the Keating Five and that his father is a major Republican donor:
Joe the Plumber, the star of tonight's debate, may have a very interesting connection to John McCain. In fact, Joe the Plumber (Joe Wurzelbacher) of Cincinnati, Ohio may be related to one Robert Wurzelbacher of Cincinnati, Ohio, who happens to be Charles Keating's son-in-law. Robert Wurzelbacher was implicated in the Keating 5 scandal, and sentenced to 40 months in prison in 1993. Wurzelbacher is also a huge Republican donor.
Keep watching this story because if it proves true that "Joe the Plumber" is the wealthy, Republican regular the liberal blogs are claiming he is, the McCain campaign could go down as the most corrupt and inept in history.
By Bonnie Erbe
Copyright
SonRunner..
How did they get Obama to go down the street where he lived.. Common Sense says that he was not a plant..
And if he was a plant SO WHAT! all he did was ask a question about taxes..
The whole problem is the loons on the left didn't like the answer that Obama gave.. So in the Clinton Playbook it's attack the person.. not the stupid answer that was given..
How did they get Obama to go down the street where he lived.. Common Sense says that he was not a plant..
And if he was a plant SO WHAT! all he did was ask a question about taxes..
The whole problem is the loons on the left didn't like the answer that Obama gave.. So in the Clinton Playbook it's attack the person.. not the stupid answer that was given..
Thai
Elite Member
Thai said:How different is that from Obama spending millions/billions on TV ads?? Does Obama shop at Salvation Army??
Double standard BS.
Maybe you're too blind to see how ridiculous your post sounds...again, so clothes are important but previous associations are not?
Which is more important for the Presidency??
Hmm, i hear crickets.....where in the world is SonRunner???
Since you like to be petty with your attacks, maybe you should read this article before anymore petty bashing on your part: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...obamas_allout_blitz_drowns_out_mccain_wi.html
"Obama can outspend McCain because, after promising to accept public campaign dollars and the spending limits that go with them, he instead opted to raise money privately.
...while McCain - who did accept public campaign dollars - is limited to the $47 million he had left as of Oct. 1."
Is this a surprise for Obama?? He is a weasel!
:awais:
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Thai
Elite Member
Right...who cares whether Joe is a plant or not, HIS QUESTION IS VALID AND APPLIES TO MANY HARDWORKING AMERICANS, including myself and my family. SonRunner is too damn blind to even acknowledge this...and simply claimed that people who make over $250k/year don't care about money and would not mind throwing $8000+ out the window. WTF is that all about?!!
THAT WAS SONRUNNER'S ANSWER!!!
I could not make this up even if i tried!!
I wonder if SonRunner is Biden's speech writer?!! That would explain a whole lot!! Holy cow...sonRunner has no clue!
THAT WAS SONRUNNER'S ANSWER!!!
I could not make this up even if i tried!! I wonder if SonRunner is Biden's speech writer?!! That would explain a whole lot!! Holy cow...sonRunner has no clue!
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Thai said:Hmm, i hear crickets.....where in the world is SonRunner???
Since you like to be petty with your attacks, maybe you should read this article before anymore petty bashing on your part: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...obamas_allout_blitz_drowns_out_mccain_wi.html
"Obama can outspend McCain because, after promising to accept public campaign dollars and the spending limits that go with them, he instead opted to raise money privately.
...while McCain - who did accept public campaign dollars - is limited to the $47 million he had left as of Oct. 1."
:awais:
What can I say, a whole lot more people like Obama and since he has regular working stiffs behind him are all piling together their small donations to make for a very big campaign budget.
McCain only wishes he had the option to do what Obama did and raise tons of money on his own. Hell, McCain's campaign went bankrupt earlier in the campaign and had to borrow money from the government to keep going.
Thai
Elite Member
Thai said:How different is that from Obama spending millions/billions on TV ads?? Does Obama shop at Salvation Army??
Double standard BS.
Maybe you're too blind to see how ridiculous your post sounds...again, so clothes are important but previous associations are not?
Which is more important for the Presidency??
Crickets...chirp...chirp...chirp....
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