Who's the next president?

SonRunner said:
The Republican party is in dire straits, they're starting to split into factions. You've got the fiscal conservatives on one side and the evangelicals on the other.


It is more than just two factions, sir. There are (as you stated) the 'fiscal' conservatives, for whom a balanced budget and control of government spending is of paramount importance. Lowering taxes (on people in every income group) is probably the primary goal.

You are also correct about the so-called evangelicals; or the moral/social conservatives. They're primarily concerned with bringing everyone into the pews at church, stopping abortions and keeping as many people as possible from having a good time.
:cool:

A third group could be the "War Hawks" who think that every spare cent should be spent on national defense. They are less concerned with social issues, though they tend to vote for people who are.

The fourth group, to which I belong, is comprised of the "true" conservatives. We are basically the "Leave me alone!" coalition who fear a large & intrusive government. While civil rights are important, we remain very pro-military and extremely patriotic. We are still squeamish about the government involving itself everywhere around the world while our own nation remains vulnerable. People in the know often refer to us as (both small "l" and large "L") libertarians. Second Amendment rights are high on the list!!

A fifth coalition is the "blue bloods" -- or the country club conservatives. We around here refer to them as "old money," since so many inherited their wealth or are retirees. They're really no threat to anyone, but sort of live outside of reality.

Maybe you can think of another subset of conservatives - I don't know. All that aside, there is a certain amount of overlap between these groups -- and each of them think that the "other" conservatives are responsible for causing GOP losses.

You folks on the liberal side have your own set of "groups" within your house as well. The difference is that liberals/Democrats do a much better job of "coming together" in general elections. They tend not to eat each other alive as conservatives do.
 
IMO, seem like two campaigns and agendas were being ran, McCain '08 and Palin '12.

McCain's concession speech was excellent and I say that's true McCain not the campaign that Palin and his strategist ran.
 
Jeff Kleb said:

It is more than just two factions, sir. There are (as you stated) the 'fiscal' conservatives, for whom a balanced budget and control of government spending is of paramount importance. Lowering taxes (on people in every income group) is probably the primary goal.

You are also correct about the so-called evangelicals; or the moral/social conservatives. They're primarily concerned with bringing everyone into the pews at church, stopping abortions and keeping as many people as possible from having a good time.
:cool:

A third group could be the "War Hawks" who think that every spare cent should be spent on national defense. They are less concerned with social issues, though they tend to vote for people who are.

The fourth group, to which I belong, is comprised of the "true" conservatives. We are basically the "Leave me alone!" coalition who fear a large & intrusive government. While civil rights are important, we remain very pro-military and extremely patriotic. We are still squeamish about the government involving itself everywhere around the world while our own nation remains vulnerable. People in the know often refer to us as (both small "l" and large "L") libertarians. Second Amendment rights are high on the list!!

A fifth coalition is the "blue bloods" -- or the country club conservatives. We around here refer to them as "old money," since so many inherited their wealth or are retirees. They're really no threat to anyone, but sort of live outside of reality.

Maybe you can think of another subset of conservatives - I don't know. All that aside, there is a certain amount of overlap between these groups -- and each of them think that the "other" conservatives are responsible for causing GOP losses.

You folks on the liberal side have your own set of "groups" within your house as well. The difference is that liberals/Democrats do a much better job of "coming together" in general elections. They tend not to eat each other alive as conservatives do.


Didn't mean to exclude any subset of Conservatives. :)

I do think it's odd you think your subset of conservatism is more "patriotic" than another. I'm sure your fellow Republicans will take issue with that. :) All Americans take firm stances on issues because they are patriotic and think they know what's best for the country. That's how a democracy works.
 
SonRunner said:
I did. Namely on the Economy, Energy, Education, Health care, and the end of the War in Iraq.

Sorry, Russ, you just annoy me with your antics! Health care...you looked into that real hard?? Damn, i couldn't tell from your propaganda BS! You and RonM didn't even know that children in indigent (not indignant!) families are covered medically ALREADY...Obama is not breaking any new grounds here! You did not know the medical law governing a hospital's practice, yet argued endlessly. What did you look into exactly?????

As noted before, Obama in his own words is NOT assuring that every adult in US will have healthcare.........so, remind me, what was the whole point of his healthcare reform??

Or that many of his "CHANGE" policies are copycat of prior policies (many of which were Bush's!!) just written more eloquently??? Did you know that?? Hell, even a CNN reporter saw that!

How exactly is the end of the war in Iraq gonna help?? Even Biden saw the issue as a weakening in US world power...and guarantees that Obama will be tested early and will have to make UNPOPULAR decisions...remind you of someone who was in office the past 8 years??

Did you look at immigration?? Obama is clearly bias in this! :mad:

Clearly, these issues were at the top of your list, right? NOT. Obamasexual rules in your world.

Hopefully, Obama will be a better President than i expect....

In the end, Russ, you are a true liberal and had no single idea that is close to being impartial.
 
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In a way I think McCain is happy it's over and won't have to be in the same room as Palin ever again.

She hurt the campaign and is already taking shots from McCain's advisors.

She was one of the big reasons I stopped considering the Republicans as an option.
 
If Republicans nominate Palin for the presidental candidate in '12 they will prove they are out of touch. I do not think she would be a good president, at least not at this point.

I'm kind of sad that McCain didn't win. He sacrificed so much and has given so much to this country. Too bad the majority of the people in the US don't care about this anymore.
 
Clemsonfan15 said:


I'm kind of sad that McCain didn't win. He sacrificed so much and has given so much to this country. Too bad the majority of the people in the US don't care about this anymore.

I don't think anyone would argue that McCain has done more for this country than most, certainly more than I ever will. His dedication to the country is absolutely admirable and his concession speech reminded all Americans of the true patriot McCain is.

But, it doesn't necessarily mean he's the best guy for President. Obama is an extremely smart man and has already shown that he'll surround himself with whomever will get the job done. Take solace in the fact that Obama and the Democrats are Americans like yourself who want to see nothing more than America continue to succeed.
 
RonMAIDEN said:
In a way I think McCain is happy it's over and won't have to be in the same room as Palin ever again.

She hurt the campaign and is already taking shots from McCain's advisors.

She was one of the big reasons I stopped considering the Republicans as an option.

You see this?

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Rush Limbaugh is asking for a boycott of Fox News for reporting this info! :)
 
Conservative vs Republican

SonRunner said:
I do think it's odd you think your subset of conservatism is more "patriotic" than another. I'm sure your fellow Republicans will take issue with that. :)


Well, let them take issue with it. Having a goal & desire to make government live within its fiscal means and inside the limits of constitutional authority is just about the highest form of patriotism that anyone could have.
:p

Also, please don't confuse patriotism with mere nationalism. They're related, but not necessarily the same thing. Oh, and they are not my "fellow Republicans" by any stretch. I am not a Republican, but am a conservative-libertarian hybrid. The GOP "left" me shortly after the mid-term elections in 1996 when they fell way short of their lofty promises and the 'Contract With America' which got many of them elected in 1994. I have not sent them a dime since then!
:(


All Americans take firm stances on issues because they are patriotic and think they know what's best for the country. That's how a democracy works.


You may be right in my case and yours......but there are more than a few people who only have their interest at heart, and they'd sell the rest of us down the river just to make a buck. Rest assured that we have plenty of people who want the economic opportunity afforded to them in the USA, but how many would fight for freedom or take up arms to defend this great land?

Additionally, I would hardly call anyone 'patriotic' when they continually call for spending more and more taxpayer dollars on wasteful, inefficient and unconstitutional programs that just don't work.

As for our country being a democracy, well yeah; but technically we're a constitutional republic (or a representative democracy). A true democracy would end up being nothing more than mob rule - tantamount to having 10 wolves and 8 sheep voting on what to eat for dinner.
:biggrin2:

Freedom only works when it is accompanied by virtue, basic rules, law & order and some type of limitation on government interference.

...........................................................................................


"Government is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it can be both a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington
 
McCain digs the Toyota. John McCain drove to his ranch in Sedona in a first gen Toyota Sequoia (abc news footage). My friends and I were thinking he would own a GM truck or something.

ogvs5d.jpg


We all need a good laugh here b/c the thread is so tense...
vz93dk.jpg

^ According to that, all of you hate America. Shame on you. Seriously though, doesn't toyota, among others, provide jobs here in the U.S.? Sheesh.
 
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ALt4r said:
McCain digs the Toyota. John McCain drove to his ranch in Sedona in a first gen Toyota Sequoia (abc news footage). My friends and I were thinking he would own a GM truck or something.

What's sad is he drove himself and had no security detail. I think Palin's return to Alaska she still had two SS agents with her. I feel sorry for McCain.
 
The guy has like 13 cars or something, I'm sure he has at least a couple American ones. Outside of that, the Sequoia is built in Indiana...

Obama has a Ford Escape Hybrid. I doubt he'll be using that much more!

Here's a picture of the back of his motorcade:
article-1083501-0262EF91000005DC-712_468x293.jpg
 
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SonRunner said:


Here's a picture of the back of his motorcade:
article-1083501-0262EF91000005DC-712_468x293.jpg

Thats a cool looking pic .

Protection is darn well needed for these officials these days . To many nuts out there.
 
I think that someone (BlueWave?) in this thread complained about Republicans helping out the Detroit industry...well, here is more accurate info:

Obama Pushes More Support for Detroit

CHICAGO
 
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Wow :) crazy topic for a Toyota website...

I voted and campaigned for Obama, not because I agree with his policies, but to make sure Palin never get to see the office. In fact, Obama made no solid promise he just straddling with words which I hope is a good thing.

I have no beef with conservative values or the Republican, in fact I think conservative values are important, what I have problem with is the hypocrisy that accompany with a lot of the so called conservative, of which Palin is a perfect example. McCain is an advocate for war and his temperament is a liability for this nation. Palin is a religious fanatic and her cluelessness is a threat to just anybody. Together they are probably the worst president ticket in history. So that left Obama/Biden :)

According to social conservative agenda women should be staying home, so why do they want to have a women running for president/vice president is really beyond me.
 

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