Why do we have a cartridge oil filter?

[LandCruiser]

Pay your dealer or someone else to rip it out then, and void your warranty. It's more dividends for the shareholders because you just reduced corporate liability, so I am in favor. If you want the company to pay for it, buy more shares than I hold and make your voice heard.

You sound like Ford's CEOs.

Profits are way up, quality is way down.

This line of thinking may have made sense 50 years ago, but now there are too many options available to the customer that narrow minded thinking that screws one market for another won't guarantee you business.

Carmakers just need one or two multibillion recalls of emissions crap prematurely ruining engines to get the message. Problem is that Toyota has never been keen on paying out warranty claims.

 

[homeyclaus]

Back on Topic:

I like the oil filter design. Oil filters are less than $6 from the dealer. So the savings are being passed on to me. The way it's laid out is less messy. I like that too.
Could it be better? Sure! But a spin-on isn't really better.

Advantages of a paper cartridge filter:
1. Lighter, easier to ship.
2. From an engineering perspective, it's MUCH easier to assure filter quality.
3. Filter bypass valve for the life of the vehicle. No more arguments with Federal-Mogul about how their FRAM orange-can filters starve engines of oil.
4. The piping around it cools the oil. Cooler oil == longer life.
5. Easier to dispose of

So in short: it sucks less to service on a lift (or laying on the ground, whatever, except for the skid plate). Does it help the environment? Probably. Is that the main reason? Only if you're a total luddite. Next thing I'll hear you posting about wondering why we can't have carburetors on our 4Runners.

 

[homeyclaus]

You sound like Ford's CEOs.

Profits are way up, quality is way down.

This line of thinking may have made sense 50 years ago, but now there are too many options available to the customer that narrow minded thinking that screws one market for another won't guarantee you business.

Carmakers just need one or two multibillion recalls of emissions crap prematurely ruining engines to get the message. Problem is that Toyota has never been keen on paying out warranty claims.

And Ford has other problems in their corporate culture that have serious repercussions on their products. And 50 years ago, even 20 years ago, there were only two legislated emissions standards: Federal and California. At that point, it made sense. Now that you have the "M" and "N" states in on the act, it's cheaper to comply with the highest common denominator than have Federal, California, and Northeast emissions packages again.

Toyota paid my warranty claims just fine, car rentals and accommodations included, outside the region the vehicle was sold in. Maybe it's how you deal with people.

Unless the cars catch fire or fail in other lethal ways, the US government won't force a recall when a service bulletin will do. And think of the bright side - the company can throw 50% more engineering resources at the emissions system and still be ahead - and you get a system that's less likely to fail.

In the meantime, get back to us when you are a market.

 

[1engineer]

Because California is a G10 country all on its own, and has a larger economy than the last 29 states in the US. They also buy approximately that percentage of cars. And geographically, most of their population is subject to this weather phenomenon called in inversion that traps pollutants close to the ground.

So, if almost half the cars you made were sold in a jurisdiction with high pollution controls (which is circular - the more cars, the more reasoning for pollution controls because of the public health impacts (which impact GDP etc etc)), how would you explain to shareholders that you were developing TWO pollution control systems for every make and model? As someone who holds shares in automotive companies, and who votes at those meetings, I'd vote your ass out in heart beat if you were to piss away money that could be dividends to make another system.

So in short, unless your state consumes as much as California, you don't get a vote in how the vehicles are built. I mean, what's your state do, live on federal subsidies to NOT farm land? Or farm corn to go to ethanol because of the subsidies? It's the same crony capitalism from the other side of the aisle.

You sound like Ford's CEOs.

Profits are way up, quality is way down.

This line of thinking may have made sense 50 years ago, but now there are too many options available to the customer that narrow minded thinking that screws one market for another won't guarantee you business.

Carmakers just need one or two multibillion recalls of emissions crap prematurely ruining engines to get the message. Problem is that Toyota has never been keen on paying out warranty claims.

He actually sounds like a well informed person who is speaking fact instead of passionate drivel.

 

[phillyd2]

And geographically, most of their population is subject to this weather phenomenon called in inversion that traps pollutants close to the ground..

I would bet seeing the air you breath has a lot to do with it. But still, Cali has gone way a$$ crazy in the last 20 years. :crazy:

 

[homeyclaus]

I would bet seeing the air you breath has a lot to do with it. But still, Cali has gone way a$$ crazy in the last 20 years. :crazy:

We can certainly have a long discussions as to the root cause of the logic of those elected by the people in that state. One could argue that their air quality board is a case of "too little, too late" but then everything in that state causes cancer or birth defects according to the labels there. Even buildings, just for existing!

 

[adam2562]

i assume it's cause of the forest fires?

 

[LandCruiser]

He actually sounds like a well informed person who is speaking fact instead of passionate drivel.

Right, if that were the case, the major carmakers wouldn't bother making separate models for the Canadian or Mexican markets, either (and unique ones at that not available in the US because of emissions, diesel, crash worthiness, etc). Most are made side by side with vehicles for the American market in the Canadian and Mexican plants--and most are penned in the corporate design offices next to their American counterparts.

There are literally millions of cab, engine, drivetrain, interior, and transmission combinations a pickup comes in, and they somehow manage to make all of them instead of making one version and hoping people will run with it.

There's really no reason they couldn't have separate drivetrain and ECU combinations for Commiefornia and the rest of the country, unless you're also saying making the same car with two or three engine choices is so damn hard (Camry, Accord, etc), or a Mexican, Canadian, and American spec one in the same factory or with nearly the same blueprints. It's not cost savings, it's just plain laziness. It would be cheaper to streamline all model lines into one popular engine and transmission choice the way they have with the 4Runners, yet you don't see many manufacturers doing that.

In truth it's led to aerodynamic add ons and engine management crap, transmission shift patterns, oil blends, etc. that most of the country does not need (the majority of the car market is still outside California) and the ideas are so brilliant, political administrations latch on to them and make CARB the law of the land--which is slowly killing off things like diesels, body on frame SUVs, big V8 sedans, etc.

One day when you're driving your unibody crossover SUV with turbocharged four cylinder gas-hybrid engine and low rolling resistance tires think of profitability, politicians, corporate boards and CARB and smile.

 

[Biggcrisp]

The law of the land

Agreed standards by model year, 2011-2025
2011-2025 CAFE standards for each year in miles per gallon.

Light Trucks

"footprint": 75 sq ft (7.0 m2) or bigger (e.g. Ford F-150)



CAFE

EPA Window Sticker


2012

22

17



2013

22.5

17



2014

23

18



2015

23.5

18



2016

24.5

19



2017

25

19



2018

25

19



2019

25

19



2020

25

19



2021

25

19



2022

26

20



2023

27

21



2024

28.5

22



2025

30

23

Image of the land lol. We have these things springing up all over the place.

 

[FlyNavy]

When I bought my current (new) house in 2008 a wood burning fireplace was no longer an option in this county. I do have a fireplace but it has to be gas only.

Older houses that have the wood fireplaces can only burn on certain days (fewer every year) allowed and determined by the San Joaquin Valley Air Resources Board.

This is just a small example of what it is like to live under the thumb of the oppressive government of Commiefornia. (gun laws are even more insane)

You cannot do anything that could possibly offend someone else's delicate sensitivities.

The rest of you, watch out or this could be coming to your state too.

Might have something to do with this. I've spent 4 years in Lemoore..... Never again!

American Lung Association State of the Air 2013 - Most Polluted Cities

 

[Quentin]

Right, if that were the case, the major carmakers wouldn't bother making separate models for the Canadian or Mexican markets, either (and unique ones at that not available in the US because of emissions, diesel, crash worthiness, etc). Most are made side by side with vehicles for the American market in the Canadian and Mexican plants--and most are penned in the corporate design offices next to their American counterparts.

There are literally millions of cab, engine, drivetrain, interior, and transmission combinations a pickup comes in, and they somehow manage to make all of them instead of making one version and hoping people will run with it.

There's really no reason they couldn't have separate drivetrain and ECU combinations for Commiefornia and the rest of the country, unless you're also saying making the same car with two or three engine choices is so damn hard (Camry, Accord, etc), or a Mexican, Canadian, and American spec one in the same factory or with nearly the same blueprints. It's not cost savings, it's just plain laziness. It would be cheaper to streamline all model lines into one popular engine and transmission choice the way they have with the 4Runners, yet you don't see many manufacturers doing that.

In truth it's led to aerodynamic add ons and engine management crap, transmission shift patterns, oil blends, etc. that most of the country does not need (the majority of the car market is still outside California) and the ideas are so brilliant, political administrations latch on to them and make CARB the law of the land--which is slowly killing off things like diesels, body on frame SUVs, big V8 sedans, etc.

One day when you're driving your unibody crossover SUV with turbocharged four cylinder gas-hybrid engine and low rolling resistance tires think of profitability, politicians, corporate boards and CARB and smile.

Show me someone that has refused to buy a car because it was California compliant and instead buys a competitors' vehicle that is NOT California compliant (in the past 10 years). That is the difference. Customers might buy a JGC because it has a nice riding air suspension and the 4Runner doesn't. They might choose an Xterra because it is cheaper than a 4Runner. They might buy a JGC for the diesel powerplant. Those are all things that it could make sense for Toyota to spend money developing assuming the market does exist. You can extrapolate this line of thinking to the Canada, Mexico, Western Hemisphere (in general) markets. That is we have a 4Runner, afterall, instead of a Land Cruiser Prado. There is some payback in developing trims specifically for markets. Buyers don't open the hood of a 4Runner, see the air injection system, and decide that this isn't the vehicle for them. Thus, developing a California truck and an "everything else" truck makes no financial sense.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

Right, if that were the case, the major carmakers wouldn't bother making separate models for the Canadian or Mexican markets, either (and unique ones at that not available in the US because of emissions, diesel, crash worthiness, etc). Most are made side by side with vehicles for the American market in the Canadian and Mexican plants--and most are penned in the corporate design offices next to their American counterparts.

There are literally millions of cab, engine, drivetrain, interior, and transmission combinations a pickup comes in, and they somehow manage to make all of them instead of making one version and hoping people will run with it.

There's really no reason they couldn't have separate drivetrain and ECU combinations for Commiefornia and the rest of the country, unless you're also saying making the same car with two or three engine choices is so damn hard (Camry, Accord, etc), or a Mexican, Canadian, and American spec one in the same factory or with nearly the same blueprints. It's not cost savings, it's just plain laziness. It would be cheaper to streamline all model lines into one popular engine and transmission choice the way they have with the 4Runners, yet you don't see many manufacturers doing that.

In truth it's led to aerodynamic add ons and engine management crap, transmission shift patterns, oil blends, etc. that most of the country does not need (the majority of the car market is still outside California) and the ideas are so brilliant, political administrations latch on to them and make CARB the law of the land--which is slowly killing off things like diesels, body on frame SUVs, big V8 sedans, etc.

One day when you're driving your unibody crossover SUV with turbocharged four cylinder gas-hybrid engine and low rolling resistance tires think of profitability, politicians, corporate boards and CARB and smile.

It is complete BS, that in America, you don't have the "Freedom" to buy the car you want. In almost every other country, there are so many other awesome car options, and models, that we will never see. People are making a big stink about the GOV trying to ban the sale of incandescent light bulbs for home use, because of our loss of rights. That is nothing compared to how the GOV restricts what cars we can drive.

Just imagine being able to go buy a new car, and once you found the model you want, you get to choose several options of different petrol and diesel engines, and transmissions, and not having to settle for anything. YOU CAN ACTUALLY BUY A NEW CAR WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION IN OTHER COUNTRIES!!! (okay, there are still a couple of manufactures that still offer a manual, but good luck finding one on the lot, with any of the options you want) You can also buy a reasonably sized diesel in just about every make and model (something smaller then a 6.0L V8 *real diesels are inline* and gets good mileage and has plenty of torque)

Also, changing a cartridge filter every 10k miles isn't that big of a deal. I remember having to change my oil every 3000 miles, now that is something to complain about!

 

[Quentin]

If Americans weren't so caught up about buying on price, those options could be available. We gotta have it now and we want to pay Walmart prices for it. That is why we have trims instead of a la carte. If you want a la carte, you pay dearly for it (like my MINI). Other countries pay a ton more for the same vehicle compared to the US.

 

[homeyclaus]

Right, if that were the case, the major carmakers wouldn't bother making separate models for the Canadian or Mexican markets, either (and unique ones at that not available in the US because of emissions, diesel, crash worthiness, etc). Most are made side by side with vehicles for the American market in the Canadian and Mexican plants--and most are penned in the corporate design offices next to their American counterparts.

That's odd. My Canadian 2001 Maxima has U.S. 50 states emissions and US motor safety approvals in addition to the Canadian ones. Clearly you haven't looked at the door jam labels in a country other than than the U.S.

There are literally millions of cab, engine, drivetrain, interior, and transmission combinations a pickup comes in, and they somehow manage to make all of them instead of making one version and hoping people will run with it.

The pick-up truck is a North-American phenomenon. Seriously, you barely see them elsewhere on this planet, outside of banana republic militaries.

There's really no reason they couldn't have separate drivetrain and ECU combinations for Commiefornia and the rest of the country, unless you're also saying making the same car with two or three engine choices is so damn hard (Camry, Accord, etc), or a Mexican, Canadian, and American spec one in the same factory or with nearly the same blueprints. It's not cost savings, it's just plain laziness. It would be cheaper to streamline all model lines into one popular engine and transmission choice the way they have with the 4Runners, yet you don't see many manufacturers doing that.

You know even less about how industrial production works than I thought.

In truth it's led to aerodynamic add ons and engine management crap, transmission shift patterns, oil blends, etc. that most of the country does not need (the majority of the car market is still outside California) and the ideas are so brilliant, political administrations latch on to them and make CARB the law of the land--which is slowly killing off things like diesels, body on frame SUVs, big V8 sedans, etc.

Newfangled aerodynamics, eh? Gosh-darn it, them darn technologisticals are at it again. And this thing called "market dynamics." Hint: It's like people, voting with dollars.

CARB is not what's killing big V8 sedans, body-on-frame blah blah stuff. Gas prices, and the resulting consumer demand is. Plus crashworthiness - average-vehicle-on-average-vehicle, or barrier, unibody does better. Plus you can actually make a car that handles and rides well.

Go buy a 1971 Ford F150 or Bronco. Be happy. Don't complain to us about it.

One day when you're driving your unibody crossover SUV with turbocharged four cylinder gas-hybrid engine and low rolling resistance tires think of profitability, politicians, corporate boards and CARB and smile.

You're making the carburetor and bias ply argument again. Makes sense - you use a Colt. I run a Glock. It's a free country, bro, and if you're a market big enough, people will make things to please you. In Colts, clearly there are enough of you. For cars, not so much.

It is complete BS, that in America, you don't have the "Freedom" to buy the car you want. In almost every other country, there are so many other awesome car options, and models, that we will never see. People are making a big stink about the GOV trying to ban the sale of incandescent light bulbs for home use, because of our loss of rights. That is nothing compared to how the GOV restricts what cars we can drive.

Just imagine being able to go buy a new car, and once you found the model you want, you get to choose several options of different petrol and diesel engines, and transmissions, and not having to settle for anything. YOU CAN ACTUALLY BUY A NEW CAR WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION IN OTHER COUNTRIES!!! (okay, there are still a couple of manufactures that still offer a manual, but good luck finding one on the lot, with any of the options you want) You can also buy a reasonably sized diesel in just about every make and model (something smaller then a 6.0L V8 *real diesels are inline* and gets good mileage and has plenty of torque)

Also, changing a cartridge filter every 10k miles isn't that big of a deal. I remember having to change my oil every 3000 miles, now that is something to complain about!

I don't agree with everything you said there, but much of the vehicle choices stateside are crony capitalism at it's finest. Everything sold in Europe today can meet emissions requirements for all 50 states. It's the rabbit warren of other legislation and their resulting certification processes that makes it completely unprofitable for Toyota to bring their D4D diesels here.

Manual transmissions, however, are market pressures. Americans race from red light to red light, and tail-gate in traffic jams, and do a boat-load of other things (texting, surfing, just talking with a phone on your head even though you have Bluetooth) while careening down the road. Only with an automatic can you do that without wanting to kill yourself (or actually doing so) after an hour.