Why no KDSS in the TRD PRO?

[Jetboy]

Also FWIW - the 4runner and GX460 have what I kind of think of as KDSS-lite. It's not the full KDSS design used on the LC200. The LC200's is always "on" and has much greater travel. In a perfect world I'd do it totally differently, but it's what we get. Everything is a cost/performance compromise at some level.

I would use torsion springs at each corner rather than sway bars and link them like an indy car.

What I find most surprising from Toyota is that KDSS is not included on the limited.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

If I recall correctly, isn't the TRD Pro a dressed up SR5 premium?

 

[RUNTHAT]

If I recall correctly, isn't the TRD Pro a dressed up SR5 premium?

:behindsofa:

 

[Calif-4runner]

KDSS is performance driven and they offer it in the model most suited for modifications and the more enthusiast market.

Yes it is slow or fast with the use but really...it works for most situations and the active sway bars are pretty sweet. For the hardcore rock crawler, no. But the Runner is not ideal for that. For the desert racer, no. But the Runner is not ideal for that.

The sr5 fits the everyday use perfect. The trail fits the weekend warrior/off-roader perfect. The limited fits the tech and luxury person. The pro fits the non modding, different from other runners, sell in two years model.

This will piss off people but IMHO it feels right to me.

^^^^ This is pretty spot on ^^^^

 

[Engineer]

Toyota left it off so we would have something to talk about on the forums......

I would bet it was purely a bean counter choice, but everyone has to make money

 

[nb rob]

The real question is "why no toyota garnish on the trail"?
:hiding:

 

[DeepSea]

Y'all shoulda' bought an SR5 and been done with it - - -

Huh?

TRD Pro can be had with sunroof depending on market.
Canadians get the Pro with sunroof/moonroof (whatever you want to call it).

I wish that was a possibility here in Hawaii.

It's cost cutting.

If cost wasn't an issue and you wanted the softer sway bar from the sr5 model being better for intermediate speeds - Toyota would just manufacture a softer sway bar for KDSS. Problem solved.

If you wanted a softer sway bar but only had the option of going to the existing parts bin - then the sr5 sway bar would be the alternative.

I do agree that mid-speed the stiff KDSS sway bar is jarring at times on rough terrain. On the spectrum of vehicle speeds KDSS is great at low speed and great at very high speed - both on and off road. It's not ideal at intermediate speeds of say 15-25mph. In that range the springs are doing a large portion of the work to absorb bumps and any bump on an individual tire is going to experience a significantly higher spring rate and result in more energy transferred to the body. At low speed KDSS opens and does it's obvious function - which is a lot more than just disconnecting a sway bar - it controls the body. At higher speeds the forces go up and the shocks become the primary resistance to motion - the heavy sway bar then is a positive thing again. But at intermediate speeds the stiff spring rate can make for an uncomfortable jarring ride.

On the highway - most bumps effect both tires on each axle simultaneously and the sway bar has no spring effect, so the bumps on the highway are basically a wash between KDSS and non-KDSS. It's the cornering on the highway where KDSS really shines IMO. For that it's night and day difference. It's even more pronounced when you add a load or weight on the roof rack.

I think it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to run 50+mph in the desert, I'll take KDSS without hesitation. If you want to run 25mph - I think non-KDSS would be the better option. For my use which is 95% highway - it wasn't a close call. KDSS was a must have.

It does surprise me a bit that Toyota doesn't spec a softer sway bar with KDSS for the TRD Pro. There's also no reason you can't have KDSS and a disconnect. It would probably be a lot easier than doing a disconnect on a non-KDSS sway bar.

I wondered how mine with KDSS would do with a loaded down roof rack. Thanks for the great insights. :cheers:

Also FWIW - the 4runner and GX460 have what I kind of think of as KDSS-lite. It's not the full KDSS design used on the LC200. The LC200's is always "on" and has much greater travel. In a perfect world I'd do it totally differently, but it's what we get. Everything is a cost/performance compromise at some level.

I would use torsion springs at each corner rather than sway bars and link them like an indy car.

What I find most surprising from Toyota is that KDSS is not included on the limited.

I believe it's an option though correct?

 

[Vinsil]

[MENTION=50669]DEEP SEA[/MENTION]No, KDSS only optional on Trail/now Offroad models.

I think they left it off the limited as it is not off-road focused and used the xreas shocks/awd tcase for the "luxury" crowd/snow bunnies.

I agree though, it's a fine system and should be on all models for an option.

 

[DeepSea]

Weird. I have KDSS on my Trail and it's like butter on fire roads. I do have Fox 2.5 with resi all the way around though.

It is situational.. If the road is smooth with even bumps for each wheel... Then yes, the suspension can soak it up. However, if each wheel is going a different direction it is difficult for the rest of the suspension to completely makeup for the stiff (street tuned) sway-bar. A better suspension will help for sure though... It just feels much better with the standard or no swaybar at all. But below 12mph the KDSS is much better. It is give and take.. KDSS with OME (for example) at speed offroad.. is pretty bad. Throw on FOX, King.. and things get much improved.. But it can be better... No perfect answer for all scenarios.

But the Pro would be rougher at speed with KDSS. No doubt about that.

But would it be rougher than a KDSS-equipped Trail on stock suspension, that is the real question. For all we know, the TRD spring rates and dampening characteristics were designed with KDSS in mind. Trail shocks are identical to SR5 shocks; that's the part that makes little sense.

Yep a good suspension paired with KDSS makes a world of difference than one without. I love my Eibachs solid but not stiff ride quality. I'm surprised the Trail/TRD Off-Road still doesn't come with the basic Bilstein shocks like TRD Offroad Tacoma, Tundra & FJ.

 

[DeepSea]

The real question is "why no toyota garnish on the trail"?
:hiding:

Thats the main garnish of the TRDP though which helps separate it's looks from the TRD Off-Road/Trail

 

[raycie]

Hey OP... use the search bar... lol..lol..


Hi Nate... :bounce::bounce:

We going up peacock this weekend, if you guys wanna camp...!

 

[BlackWorksInc]

:behindsofa:

Trying to remember, because if I recall correctly TRD PRO's are not made at the factory per say like the other trims. Rather they select a model to "pimp" out with TRD PRO goodies and then sell it, I can't recall if this is done at the port or not.

I could be entirely wrong here, but that's how I remember someone explaining to me how they're made. It's been a while since I cared enough to look into it, but if that's true it might explain why no KDSS.

 

[DeepSea]

Hey OP... use the search bar... lol..lol..


Hi Nate... :bounce::bounce:

We going up peacock this weekend, if you guys wanna camp...!

Seriously brother I want to go. Let me chat with my wifey. Family trip I take it since it's Fathers Day Sunday?

 

[Leucifer]

Also..... technically, you can order a TRD OR or ORP and add on the TRD PRO suspension, wheels, etc. It CAN be done.... if you can find a dealer willing and have the $$$. Not sure if any in Hawaii will. Toyota Escondido probably would, but be aware, it's a dealer add-on. And for the price, you could probably do better on the suspension.

 

[Jetboy]

I believe it's an option though correct?

Nope. No KDSS on the limited. :Cry: I would have bought a limited and installed aftermarket lockers if KDSS was available. Basically you can't have KDSS and a smart key on any 4runner. Have to buy a GX460 or LC200 if you want both features.

 

[b407driver]

I'm surprised the Trail/TRD Off-Road still doesn't come with the basic Bilstein shocks like TRD Offroad Tacoma, Tundra & FJ.

Especially since the '17 name change to include 'TRD' would suggest there's something TRD in the vehicle other than the floor mats.

We should just refer to the '17 as the "Off Road", as it's increasingly confusing trying to decipher peoples' use of the term 'TRD'.

 

[raycie]

Seriously brother I want to go. Let me chat with my wifey. Family trip I take it since it's Fathers Day Sunday?

Yep... Friday about 3:00 pm - Sunday...

Tell her get hot water... lol

 

[uncleclaude]

This is an intriguing question. I really, really, really wanted a TRD Pro. At one point, i owned a 2010 FJ Trail Teams edition which was so cool....all the badging, nice touches, suspension, etc. I loved the trail teams which was essentially the TRD version for the FJ

But the more I researched, I became drawn to the TRD Off Road Premium. It has some really cool off-road features but also some really nice creature features. The black seats with the red TRD stitching and lettering on the head rests is really cool. Sun roof, KDSS, etc. Over time, I convinced myself that somehow the TRD Off Road Premium had more features than the pro and I could also score one with the exact options I wanted at invoice.

Now, i'd still like to have the TRD Pro. i'd like to have both.

 

[b407driver]

This is an intriguing question. I really, really, really wanted a TRD Pro. At one point, i owned a 2010 FJ Trail Teams edition which was so cool....all the badging, nice touches, suspension, etc. I loved the trail teams which was essentially the TRD version for the FJ

But the more I researched, I became drawn to the TRD Off Road Premium. It has some really cool off-road features but also some really nice creature features. The black seats with the red TRD stitching and lettering on the head rests is really cool. Sun roof, KDSS, etc. Over time, I convinced myself that somehow the TRD Off Road Premium had more features than the pro and I could also score one with the exact options I wanted at invoice.

Now, i'd still like to have the TRD Pro. i'd like to have both.

I have both.

 

[DeepSea]

This is an intriguing question. I really, really, really wanted a TRD Pro. At one point, i owned a 2010 FJ Trail Teams edition which was so cool....all the badging, nice touches, suspension, etc. I loved the trail teams which was essentially the TRD version for the FJ

But the more I researched, I became drawn to the TRD Off Road Premium. It has some really cool off-road features but also some really nice creature features. The black seats with the red TRD stitching and lettering on the head rests is really cool. Sun roof, KDSS, etc. Over time, I convinced myself that somehow the TRD Off Road Premium had more features than the pro and I could also score one with the exact options I wanted at invoice.

Now, i'd still like to have the TRD Pro. i'd like to have both.

I have both.

Yep you can have both. Just buy the PRO grill & badging then plastidip the bumper valences then put them on a KDSS equipped Trail/TRDOR. I personally don't care for the OEM wheels on either because I like a wider stance so I usually swap them out for aftermarket anyways. If I could go back, I'd have bought the Trail Premium for the sunroof and leather. I may shoot for an 18' depending if they introduce some different colors because the current choices are a bit dated outside the one special color for the TRDP.