Your worst nightmare

4by4th

4by4th

New member
This is my first post on this forum. As my user name indicates, our 2004 4Runner is our forth 4x4. Currently driving 2 through 4 with combined milage of more than 460,000 miles. Due to recent events with the 4Runner, I'll probably be spending most of my time here under the problems and warranty area, but time will tell.

A few months ago my wife took our 4Runner to the dealer for an oil change. At 70,000 miles, we've taken it to this dealer, one of the largest dealers in one of the largest cities in the US, every 3000 miles for oil changes. They returned the 4Runner to my wife, who unknowingly drove for 2 or 3 miles, without any oil in it. They "forgot" to put oil in it.

Moral of the story is... check your dipstick, no matter who changes your oil.
 
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Sorry to hear about that. Now if only the Toyota dealers were as reliable as the vehicle itself. I would definitely not let the dealer get away with it. If they will not make good, definitely get an attorney!
 
Certainly sounds like it was human error, but they should be liable for their mistake. Make sure you get a new engine out of it. Remember, they have insurance for things like this. Good luck!
 
When I found out what happened and called them, they said they just put 5 quarts of oil in it and it was "purring like a kitten". They tried to claim no damage was done.

Numerous debates then took place, but when we drained the oil after 500 miles of driving and they saw metal shavings in the oil, they agreed there was damage and got their insurance company involved. They found the crank shaft bearing froze and turned in the block. They put in a rebuilt short block from Toyota, and sent the heads to a machine shop who found no damage. After about a month with an insurance company SUV, we got the 4Runner back.

We had our local reliable mechanic change the oil in the new engine at 500 miles. A few days later it was making a noisy lifter sound when starting cold. We took it to the Toyota dealer and the best they could come up with was that we put an "after market" oil filter on it. They claim the Toyota oil filter might have a valve in it that keeps the oil from draining out so it has oil in the top of the engine when starting. Has anybody out there heard this before or know if it's true?

Then we took it out 4 wheeling with the Jeep. I was being gentle with the 4Runner and it's new motor. Shortly into the trip, the Check Engine Light and both VSC lights came on. The Toyota dealer then replaced an exhaust manifold and catalitic converter (one piece right?), belt, tension pully, cleaned the fuel injectors, and checked valve adjustments which they said met specs.

Oh don't let me forget, they gave us back our money for the oil change when we asked for it.

I talked to an attorney early in the process, who said he would have to get an expert involved before he could do anything, and recommended we document everything, which we have. I also talked to an old college roommate attorney who basically said it would be a tough fight. Our auto insurance agent said it was a tort claim and not their problem to deal with, but wished us luck after asking if we used synthetic oil or Slick 50.

Now we're torn between trading in or selling and being upside down on a 60 month loan, or hoping for the best and looking at it from an optomistic point of view that we have a newly rebuilt engine in a car with 70,000 miles on it. I sincerely bought this vehicle with thoughts that it would go 250,000 miles without major repairs. Now I'm trying to decide if I should spend any money on new tires to replace the Michelin tires that it came with. I want to go play in the mud but the Michelins have 73,000 miles on them and not enough tread to begin with for what I like to drive through. But that'll have to wait for another post...
 
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4by4th said:
They claim the Toyota oil filter might have a valve in it that keeps the oil from draining out so it has oil in the top of the engine when starting. Has anybody out there heard this before or know if it's true?
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It is called an anti drainback valve and it is designed to keep the oil from draining out of the oil filter when you stop the engine.

Note that most oil filters now have an anti drainback valve. Any proper spec'd after market oil filter should have an anti drainback valve.
 
first the lower end..

obviously, there is damage to the heads that is showing up after a few miles of driving. if the dealer wants to blame it on an aftermarket filter, they are clearly ignoring the facts: 1. they neglected to refil the engine with oil 2. there was metal found upon inspection and 3. they salvaged the old heads. have them change the heads, then trade it in

i know you are upside down on your original loan, but i'm sure if you shop around, you can make out ok.. rebates are high this time of year on 06 models.

good luck
 
Wow, what a horror story indeed. They will just keep brushing you off until you just give up and stop bothering them all together. That's how these businesses work and make the money they make. I think the only option left for you to get out on top would probably be if your truck "got stolen" and was ditched down a ravine or somehow "mysteriously" set on fire. Good luck bro. I feel your pain.
 
My brothers friend who works for Lexus was saying that if you threaten to complain to some agency. I forget the name, that they will basically do anything youy want since that is how they are judged and they need to keep up their good standings. Maybe someone else can give some better information on this.
 
I haven't heard the "lifter" noise at start up since they changed the oil filter to a Toyota one. The only thing we notice now that wasn't there with the original engine is the idle seems too low when stopped at a light in Drive with foot on the brake. The engine seems to make the car shake from an idle that is too low. It only happens when the AC cuts off or is turned off. When the AC is running the idle goes up a little and the vibration isn't there. The tach shows about 550 rpm, or a hair over the 500 line when it's shaking. When the AC is running, it's maybe 650 or 700. When we first told them about it, they said it was idling where it should be and cleaned the throttle body. They gave us a Rav4 last time for a loaner, and it seemed to shake too, but not as bad. Our Cherokee has always vibrated like that at stop lights, before and after the engine rebuild, so maybe it's a 6 cyclinder thing. Does anybody elses V6 4Runner do that? Is there any way to adjust the idle? Our trusted mechanic (not the dealer) said to give it a while for the computer to adjust to the new engine.
 
My brothers friend who works for Lexus was saying that if you threaten to complain to some agency.
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Check if mechanics and/or auto repair shops are regulated in your state (I know they are licensed in my state). If so, you could file a complaint with that agency.

You could also ask to escalate your issue with the dealership's management. I would let them know that you're not satisfied that the dealership fully fixed the problems caused by their error. If you can tie this into a formal complaint to a state agency, that may be the motivation required for the dealer to make things right.

I had a dispute with my (former) cell phone carrier. I can tell you from that experience, it wasn't until I filed a complaint with the FCC (and informed the carrier that I had done so) that I saw a significant movement to solve my dispute.

I also filed a complaint with the BBB and got nothing out of that (except a letter several months after the issue had been resolved apologizing for their delay in responding).
 
4by4th said:
They claim the Toyota oil filter might have a valve in it that keeps the oil from draining out so it has oil in the top of the engine when starting. Has anybody out there heard this before or know if it's true?
Click to expand...

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states;

"Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer"

Basically, if they require that factory parts must be used or the warranty is voided, then they must provide the parts at no cost to the consumer.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act

Hope this helps.
 
Trade it NOW!

4by4th said:

Now we're torn between trading in or selling .... Now I'm trying to decide if I should spend any money on new tires .
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There is no way those heads aren't toast.

Your best bet is to not spent another dollar on this truck, and to get the dealer who broke it and now claims that it's perfectly okay to give you a very-very good trade in value on a 2006 model. With the current rebates and such, the trade-up won't cost you nearly as much as the headache of trying to drive around in a vehicle with heads that were run without oil, and it would probably be cheaper for the dealer to trade with you than to actually fix the one they broke.
 
Sounds like you need new heads, maybe other problems. Do you have another vehicle to drive? If they refuse to fix things correctly, park the 4Runner legally in front of the dealer with a sign

"(dealer Name) Service destroyed the engine in this truck ... Maybe you're next"

Then call up the local news channels. Take pictures and mail them to Toyota Corporate.


Losing one or two new vehicle sales will be more costly to them than fixing your truck.
 
I know 2 or 3 other people who have had this happen to them in the past year alone. They have all had their entire engine replaced by the shop that caused the damage, not just the short block. So I would insist that they replace the heads as they should have in the first place.

Once this is taken care of I'll give you the same advice I gave each of them; if you are able always change your own oil. If you have never done your own before, I don't believe there is an easier vehicle to learn on. Especially since you have the V6 with the filter under the hood. It really doesn't take very long and requires only a couple of common and cheap tools. Plus it is a great excuse to get outside, have a few beers, and spend some quality time with you truck!
 
Many good suggestions coming here from the forum users, thank you. Let me give you a little more detail.

The first week went by and ended with an unacceptable conversation with the service director. I called the Toyota Customer Experience Center and they set up a file and reference number. We carefully wrote a 3 page letter to a vice president at the dealer describing the events up to that point, copied everybody we could think of, and hand delivered it. Shortly thereafter we had an acceptably written100,000 mile warranty (100,000 new miles) from the dealership for any problems resulting from them not putting oil in it. One week later after driving 500 miles including pulling our boat for a couple hundred miles the metal shavings showed up in the oil and they got their insurance company involved. The insurance adjuster took over at that point, specifying the short block and sending the heads to a machine shop. The machine shop found no damage and did a valve job. Our reliable mechanic told us that should be as good as getting a long block. We were told the short block was from Toyota and like all parts from Toyota has a 1 year warranty. I plan to hold the dealer to the written 100,000 mile warranty for any problems that arise.

At this point, the dealer seems to be trying to make it right.

I love driving this 4Runner and given increases in interest rates and other upcoming financial obligations, could not replace it with an equal vehicle. The other two 4x4
 
V6 vibration at stoplights, oil analysis

4by4th, I sometimes feel a little engine vibration at stoplights. It doesn't happen most of the time and it's been the same since the vehicle was new. I suspect it's only when the idle is at a very specific RPM and that's why it never happens when the A/C is on.

I don't know of a way to change the idle RPM, and perhaps there isn't a way since the idle can be controlled by the throttle-by wire and sensed by the engine computer. There may simply be nothing like the old screw adjustments. I could be wrong about this, and haven't looked into it since the vibration is minor and infrequent.

In a case like yours I'd suggest doing a used oil analysis at every oil change for a while. That will give you a much better idea if there is any kind of long-term damage going on.

As for the suggestions about changing your own oil, it is relatively easy with the V6. You can also use an oil extractor pump and do the whole thing without getting under the vehicle.

I know too many people who've had major problems with dealer and non-dealer oil changes, so I continue to do it myself. I will admit it's not practical for some folks, though.
 
150,000 Mile Update

Just passed 150,000 miles and it still seems to be running like new. I've changed the oil myself ever since the nightmare, using Mobil 1 synthetic and Mobil 1 filters. Looking for something positive, the 4Runner has 150,000 miles on it and the motor only around 80,000. Planning to keep it for a long time...
 
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