Lower ball joint bolts stuck in knuckle

J

jack.hanks02

New member
I managed to get the ball joints out, but like so many others with rust, 3 of the bolts remain in the knuckle.

What are the proven methods to get these out? My plan right now is vice grips, pb blaster, and heat.
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I have had great luck with a BUTANE torch on these smaller type bolts. Just remove the knuckle and put it in a vise so you don't end up torching the CV-Axle or setting the bearing grease on fire. I have seen BOTH done, and let me tell you CV axle grease burns black and nasty.

I would heat the bolts themselves until the are red hot with the point of the butane torch. Then put cold water to "shock" the metal. Hit the knuckle with a ball peen hammer a few times on the knuckle around the bolt. DON"T Attack them with vise grips. You should be able to bust most of the rust loose with a few sessions of PB blaster, then heat, then hammering, then cold water. Rinse and repeat and you can probably turn them with a pair of pliers.
 
I wish you all the best on your future endeavors...
I recently broke a NEW bolt replacing my ball joints the other day with my torque wrench.
I have tried PBblaster and vice grips on it to no avail.
A mobile mechanic is coming out tomorrow to sort out the problem and get the new bolt out of the knuckle, when he finishes the job I'll ask him what he did to remove it and will let you know if you're still having the issue.:playball:
 
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Get some MAP gas, and heat bolts up until they're red. Then you should be able to unscrew them with a pair of vise grips. If that doesn't work heat them up again, and this time hold a candle to the threads where the thread go into the spindle. The heat will draw the wax in, and will help to loosen the bolt from the rust.

Mike
 
MStudt said:
Get some MAP gas, and heat bolts up until they're red. Then you should be able to unscrew them with a pair of vise grips. If that doesn't work heat them up again, and this time hold a candle to the threads where the thread go into the spindle. The heat will draw the wax in, and will help to loosen the bolt from the rust.



Mike
Click to expand...
I got a map gas torch, but the flame is way too big. Risk burning the cv boot. Trying to avoid taking the knuckle off. Mostly because if I do I'll probably find other shit that needs replaced [emoji28].

Thinking I will try my little butane torch and go buy a bigger one if needed.

Good to know about the candle.

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OpenYota said:
I wish you all the best on your future endeavors...

I recently broke a NEW bolt replacing my ball joints the other day with my torque wrench.

I have tried PBblaster and vice grips on it to no avail.

A mobile mechanic is coming out tomorrow to sort out the problem and get the new bolt out of the knuckle, when he finishes the job I'll ask him what he did to remove it and will let you know if you're still having the issue.:playball:
Click to expand...

Damn, this is what I am hoping to avoid! Did you over torque or should I adjust my specs?

Interested in your results! And how much he charges.

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shadow247 said:
I have had great luck with a BUTANE torch on these smaller type bolts. Just remove the knuckle and put it in a vise so you don't end up torching the CV-Axle or setting the bearing grease on fire. I have seen BOTH done, and let me tell you CV axle grease burns black and nasty.



I would heat the bolts themselves until the are red hot with the point of the butane torch. Then put cold water to "shock" the metal. Hit the knuckle with a ball peen hammer a few times on the knuckle around the bolt. DON"T Attack them with vise grips. You should be able to bust most of the rust loose with a few sessions of PB blaster, then heat, then hammering, then cold water. Rinse and repeat and you can probably turn them with a pair of pliers.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a plan. I will try it without removing the knuckle first and go from there. Maybe I will be lucky but highly doubtful [emoji23]

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jack.hanks02 said:
I got a map gas torch, but the flame is way too big. Risk burning the cv boot. Trying to avoid taking the knuckle off. Mostly because if I do I'll probably find other shit that needs replaced [emoji28].

Thinking I will try my little butane torch and go buy a bigger one if needed.

Good to know about the candle.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The only difference between the MAP gas torch & propane torch is the fuel. Flame will be the same size, and map gas will get hotter. Butane really isn't a very effective source for heat when trying to remove a rust bolt. You can put a leather glove between the spindle and cv boot to help not melt the boot.

For the record, you can also heat the lower side of the spindle rather than thread portion that's sticking out. This will also keep the flame away from your cv, and still get the rust bolt plenty hot.

jack.hanks02 said:
Damn, this is what I am hoping to avoid! Did you over torque or should I adjust my specs?

Interested in your results! And how much he charges.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Over torque on these bolts will cause them to snap off.

Mike
 
MStudt said:
The only difference between the MAP gas torch & propane torch is the fuel. Flame will be the same size, and map gas will get hotter. Butane really isn't a very effective source for heat when trying to remove a rust bolt. You can put a leather glove between the spindle and cv boot to help not melt the boot.



For the record, you can also heat the lower side of the spindle rather than thread portion that's sticking out. This will also keep the flame away from your cv, and still get the rust bolt plenty hot.







Over torque on these bolts will cause them to snap off.



Mike
Click to expand...
Yeah I just got a bernzomatic kit that came with map gas. I just wish I could adjust the flame size coming out.

I was also considering putting something in to block the cv boot. Good call on the leather glove!

I can't find my damn cheap ass butane torch anyway, but if I do I will try it first for curiosity's sake.

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Kanoe said:
No way that should happen. I'd double check the spec you were using or you need a new torque wrench.
Click to expand...

I was torqueing to 59ft-lb’s...
it was a brand new Harbor freight torque wrench so I learned my lesson on using those tools.
Going to upgrade it.
 
jack.hanks02 said:
Damn, this is what I am hoping to avoid! Did you over torque or should I adjust my specs?

Interested in your results! And how much he charges.

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Click to expand...

I torqued to spec(59ft-lb) but I think my new Harbor freight torque wrench is crap so I think that was the issue.
I’ll let you know tomorrow afternoon
 
heat said:
The '02 manual, at least, shows 37 ft-lb.
Click to expand...

I found that discrepancy when I was doing my lower ball joint replacement a few months ago. I have attached the same section out of the 2000 manual. The part numbers for the lower ball joints don't change across the model years for the 3rd gen. When I did mine I went to 59lb-ft, and I didn't feel like I was anywhere near needing to worry about stripping or breaking anything.
 

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Skulking said:
I found that discrepancy when I was doing my lower ball joint replacement a few months ago. I have attached the same section out of the 2000 manual. The part numbers for the lower ball joints don't change across the model years for the 3rd gen. When I did mine I went to 59lb-ft, and I didn't feel like I was anywhere near needing to worry about stripping or breaking anything.
Click to expand...

The diagram for the 02 shows a dust cover which is what my 02 has as well.
Always wondered why such a difference in torque values with/without dust cover.
Anybody have thoughts on that.
 
Might the discrepancy in torque values be explained by different part numbers for those 4 bolts?

From my own reading of Toyota parts diagrams, the part number for 4Runners built from 11/95 to 6/2000 is 90105-10406. An ordinary online search reveals that number has been superseded by 90080-10066.

4Runners built from 5/2001 to 8/2002 take 90119-10933. I cannot find that it's been superseded. A curiosity, however: this newer bolt's description is "Bolt W Washer".
 
Sarki said:
The diagram for the 02 shows a dust cover which is what my 02 has as well.
Always wondered why such a difference in torque values with/without dust cover.
Anybody have thoughts on that.
Click to expand...

Huh, I bought dust protectors with mine and put them on and was torqueing to 59ft-lb's so maybe that's what my issue was...
I did not know about going to 37ft-lb's with dust covers so I will do that next when piecing it back together.
 
jack.hanks02 said:
Damn, this is what I am hoping to avoid! Did you over torque or should I adjust my specs?

Interested in your results! And how much he charges.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hey Jack!
So reading into other users comments in this thread I realize now that in the FSM it says to torque to 37ft-lb's WITH dust covers on.
I bought dust covers and was torqueing to 59ft-lb's. I think I see my problem.

The mobile mechanic came and was able to extract the bolt with a butane torch to heat up the knuckle(not the bolt) and a pair of vice grips and special wrench.
The special wrench had forward and reverse facing teeth almost like a pipe wrench which allowed him to get a better grip and slowly turn out the bolt then was able to use the basic vice grips on it.
He said each time he was able to slightly turn it he would use the torch again to ensure the metal was still hot.
He also recommended using a thread chaser and cleaning tap to ensure there were no thread debris in there and to use brake cleaner to clean the knuckle threads and a lubricant like white grease to ensure the threads were smooth.

I went through wrench.com and was charged $185 for the whole procedure.
Hope this helps!
 
davidch said:
Might the discrepancy in torque values be explained by different part numbers for those 4 bolts?

From my own reading of Toyota parts diagrams, the part number for 4Runners built from 11/95 to 6/2000 is 90105-10406. An ordinary online search reveals that number has been superseded by 90080-10066.

4Runners built from 5/2001 to 8/2002 take 90119-10933. I cannot find that it's been superseded. A curiosity, however: this newer bolt's description is "Bolt W Washer".
Click to expand...
These are the LBJ bolts w/washer for 01 & 02. Not sure what if any difference there is between these and the bolts for the earlier year 3rd gens.
I suspect the difference in the torque values is related to the use of the dust shield more than a difference in the bolt but that’s just a thought.
 

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