Which Air Lift bags with 3.5 inch lift

thebrandon · Mar 15, 2020

Hello fellow 3rd gen owners. I was wondering what Air Lift bags you guys recommend with a roughly 3.5 inch lift. I know the air lift 60743 is good for stock height but I feel a long bag, or larger spacer would be needed. I do not have bump stops inside my springs.

shadow247 · Mar 15, 2020

thebrandon said:
Hello fellow 3rd gen owners. I was wondering what Air Lift bags you guys recommend with a roughly 3.5 inch lift. I know the air lift 60743 is good for stock height but I feel a long bag, or larger spacer would be needed. I do not have bump stops inside my springs.

I would call AirLift Directly. They will be able to help you out. Their tech line is great. I've called them before on a customer setup I was troubleshooting and they helped me right out.

Airlift Support - 1.800.248.0892

TonyB66 · Mar 15, 2020

shadow247 said:
I would call AirLift Directly. They will be able to help you out. Their tech line is great. I've called them before on a customer setup I was troubleshooting and they helped me right out.

Airlift Support - 1.800.248.0892

I was just thinking of this myself yesterday, so thanks for that info. While I'm happy with the 891s in the rear, when loaded-up, family of four, I'm sensing that with our small trailer connected, it would be nice to have the added support of air.

Having never had air before (being ignorant), wouldn't the factory cones within the rear springs be a factor? It would seem so, if there, removed, shortened...

Are the options pretty much Airlift and Firestone?

thebrandon · Mar 15, 2020

shadow247 said:
I would call AirLift Directly. They will be able to help you out. Their tech line is great. I've called them before on a customer setup I was troubleshooting and they helped me right out.

Airlift Support - 1.800.248.0892

I am waiting for a reply, they arent open till Monday. Was hoping someone here had a similar set up.

Dieselchessy · Mar 15, 2020

Never ran them with a lift.
For the Firestone’s you leave the internal bump stop in, but you cut 1 or 2 of the sections off depending on what year 4runner you have.

TonyB66 · Mar 15, 2020

Dieselchessy said:
Never ran them with a lift.
For the Firestone’s you leave the internal bump stop in, but you cut 1 or 2 of the sections off depending on what year 4runner you have.

Noticed such here on the Firestone Coil-Rites for 3rd gens:

https://www.partsgeek.com/assets/products/full/7FB20F90.pdf

Geez, just 87 bucks?

1998-2020 Toyota 4Runner Air Lift Leveling Kit - Suspension - Firestone Ride-Rite, Rear 98-20 4Runner Air Lift Leveling Kit - 7921-03619828 - PartsGeek

Dieselchessy · Mar 15, 2020

Yes, they run just less than $100.
I don’t recall cutting all the sections off the bump stop, but maybe.
I expect you could leave sections to make up for your lift.

I plumb them individually so I can level, and I place each air fitting in the inner corners of the plastic rear bumper step.
In that location they are out of sight when the back hatch is closed and you open the hatch to access.

I also completely line the air hose with split plastic wire loom. These things fail due to the air hose getting damaged and leaking.

TonyB66 · Mar 15, 2020

Dieselchessy said:
Yes, they run just less than $100.
I don’t recall cutting all the sections off the bump stop, but maybe.
I expect you could leave sections to make up for your lift.

I plumb them individually so I can level, and I place each air fitting in the inner corners of the plastic rear bumper step.
In that location they are out of sight when the back hatch is closed and you open the hatch to access.

I also completely line the air hose with split plastic wire loom. These things fail due to the air hose getting damaged and leaking.

Knowing how much to cut/remove in relation to one's lift (spring of choice) is worth some thought and possibly experimentation, namely cutting a section at a time even... That said, cutting too little or none at all, given the cone shape, leaves less surface/contact area for the bags. A taller bag might be desirable for lifts I would think. A call into Air Lift, or Firestone seems prudent.

Indeed, that was the first thing I thought when I saw a T-connector; that I'd prefer individual control instead. I have an aftermkt rear bumper, but also envisioned the fill valves in ideal locations there. I imagine I'd keep them at the minimal 5 pounds 80-90% of the time.

Dieselchessy · Mar 15, 2020

The bags fit such that their natural size just snuggly fits inside the spring to include height at static position.
You could pretty well eyeball how much to trim.
I don’t expect the reduced surface area due to leaving a section on the bump stop would cause an issue. The bags are pretty tough.
I run mine at 5 psi unless loaded and then 10 psi is about all it takes to level the rig.

I agree, an optimal sized bag would be best, if they make one. But, they list the same bags for I believe every coil sprung 4runner, so I’m thinking they maybe don’t have a ton of different sizes that vary slightly.
But..... Sonoran Steel offers a “custom” kit. You can see in the pics that the air port isn’t centered in the bag though.

At any rate, do your research. I’d be interested in what you find.

TonyB66 · Mar 15, 2020

Dieselchessy said:
The bags fit such that their natural size just snuggly fits inside the spring to include height at static position.
You could pretty well eyeball how much to trim.
I don’t expect the reduced surface area due to leaving a section on the bump stop would cause an issue. The bags are pretty tough.
I run mine at 5 psi unless loaded and then 10 psi is about all it takes to level the rig.

I agree, an optimal sized bag would be best, if they make one. But, they list the same bags for I believe every coil sprung 4runner, so I’m thinking they maybe don’t have a ton of different sizes that vary slightly.
But..... Sonoran Steel offers a “custom” kit. You can see in the pics that the air port isn’t centered in the bag though.

At any rate, do your research. I’d be interested in what you find.

Thanks again.

Sent two emails earlier, one each to Air Lift and Firestone...

Hello,

I have a 2000 Toyota 4Runner Limited, 4x4 which is lifted in the rear about 2.5-3" with 891 springs (OME 2891).

The kit referenced is for stock height, I believe. Which of your kits do you recommend?

Thanks much,

Tony
++++++

The OP noted 3.5" though, so not so sure what I find-out will be helpful to him. I'll share though....

TonyB66 · Mar 17, 2020

Well, I didn't hear back from Air Lift. I imagine COVID-19 has something do with it. When I called Firestone there was an outgoing message that they were in a meeting... I did hear back from Firestone over email though, and the guy asked for the internal diameter within the 891s, and length or vertical height...

The diameter looks to be the same as stock, about 4.5". If I were to cut the jounce bump at the highest point as noted in the instructions above (removal of the four lower tiers), it looks to be about 8.5-9". Hard to tell...

The Firestone kit recommended for the 3rd gen is 4135, and that bag is 4.75" in diameter, and 7.5" long/tall. So... I began looking at other kits, for different rides. I found this helpful.

https://www.firestoneip.com/content/dam/fsip/pdfs/ride-rite-pdfs/firestone-ride-rite-catalog.pdf

I saw that replacement bag 6021 has a 4.75" diameter also, and is 9" long. Seems like a good candidate. Then I needed to find-out which kit/s use that bag, and it's just one - 4107 (Crown Vics, Caddys, Park Ave, etc).

It will be here on Sunday...

As for the OP, with more lift, maybe the 10" bag is the way to go. That's replacement bag 6003 (4.75" x 10"). And, that is found in 4108. Here at Summit Racing.

Unusual Activity Detected - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

Up to you...

Dieselchessy · Mar 17, 2020

Good work man. I’ll have to put that info to work when I get my 890 coils installed.

Sure is nice to have the bags for towing and heavy loads, but still have a soft coil for daily driving.

TonyB66 · Mar 17, 2020

Dieselchessy said:
Good work man. I’ll have to put that info to work when I get my 890 coils installed.

Sure is nice to have the bags for towing and heavy loads, but still have a soft coil for daily driving.

Exactly how I feel too.

Waiting to hear back from Firestone on what is considered ideal length or height for an "air spring". If for example there is 9" of available vertical space within the coil under normal load, should the bag be 9", with the top and bottom of the bags lightly touching (no compression), or should there be maybe an inch or two of space? That will help me determine how much to modify the jounce bump. I'm going to guess that they will recommend maybe an inch of space so that movement is pure spring, with no bag involvement. Not sure...

I'll report back here when I get an answer from Firestone, then update my maintenance/build thread once I complete the install.

Riceye · Mar 17, 2020

I installed Air-Lift bags a few years ago. I totally agree that having the ability to haul weight (500#+) inside or pull a trailer with a 3500# load of wood, yet air down for a civil ride when empty is a beautiful thing.

I ordered kit #60743 and proceeded to self-install. The kit includes two 3" thick hockey pucks with a hole in the center for the air line to exit. The instructions show three different install options. The first two use the pucks in either the top or bottom position relative to the bags with the jounce stops absent or much shorter than the jounce stops that were on mine. The third option was cutting the jounce stops short (all four rings removed) and not using the pucks. I opted for the third option.

My 2000 has the 99 tall springs that I salvaged from my '96 (it had a recall spring upgrade earlier with the 99 tall springs and jounce stops) after being sideswiped by a texting teen. My ride height was 21" after installing 99 tall springs front and rear, before bags install. I found that if I removed all four rings of the jounce stops that there would be a larger-that-desired gap at the ends of the bag. I opted to remove three rings of the jounce stops and that has proven to work out well. My ride height in back is now 21-1/2" with 12# of air in the bags.

Worthy of note is the fact that only part of the weight is borne on the ends of the bags. The sides of the bags, when inflated, support the springs in between the coils. The load is nicely distributed throughout the exterior surface of the bags.

TonyB66 · Mar 17, 2020

Riceye said:
I installed Air-Lift bags a few years ago. I totally agree that having the ability to haul weight (500#+) inside or pull a trailer with a 3500# load of wood, yet air down for a civil ride when empty is a beautiful thing.

I ordered kit #60743 and proceeded to self-install. The kit includes two 3" thick hockey pucks with a hole in the center for the air line to exit. The instructions show three different install options. The first two use the pucks in either the top or bottom position relative to the bags with the jounce stops absent or much shorter than the jounce stops that were on mine. The third option was cutting the jounce stops short (all four rings removed) and not using the pucks. I opted for the third option.

My 2000 has the 99 tall springs that I salvaged from my '96 (it had a recall spring upgrade earlier with the 99 tall springs and jounce stops) after being sideswiped by a texting teen. My ride height was 21" after installing 99 tall springs front and rear, before bags install. I found that if I removed all four rings of the jounce stops that there would be a larger-that-desired gap at the ends of the bag. I opted to remove three rings of the jounce stops and that has proven to work out well. My ride height in back is now 21-1/2" with 12# of air in the bags.

Worthy of note is the fact that only part of the weight is borne on the ends of the bags. The sides of the bags, when inflated, support the springs in between the coils. The load is nicely distributed throughout the exterior surface of the bags.

Good input. To that point, I heard back from Firestone:

The length isn't as important as the width. All of the applications we do have fitments for don’t fill the entire length and the gaps vary from vehicle to vehicle. The width is the thing you will want to be about the same. That is the important part with these bags.
++++++

Interesting. As I visualize the forces involved, it makes sense. My thinking, taking it to an extreme, having a bag 1" tall would provide little to no value though. So, height does matter, just maybe not so much once the bag involves a few wraps.

If the recommended bag for a stock 3rd gen is 7.5" tall, that, IMO, serves as a nice reference point for lifted rigs. I tend to believe the 9" bag will serve me well in that respect, again with the same diameter, which should be snug within the coil...

I heard back from Air Lift:

Hello Tony

Unfortunately we do not have a direct application for your vehicle due to the lift but you can check out our universal 1000 bags to see if you will work for you. Here is a link to our universal bag finder that will help you determine the best fit:

How To Build and Install an Air Lift 1000 Universal Kit | Air Lift Company - Tow and Haul with Safety and Comfort
++++++

Hopefully that might help the OP and others...

3bears · Jul 15, 2020

glad this came up and sorry to bring back an old thread.
O plan on installing the LC coils in the near future, ( and tundra up front) I currently have the 99 talls and airbags. Installing those required that the inner cones be cut down.
Now I am reading mixed things on the cones.....cut down, dont cut down, etc.

If I need the uncut ones, those will be very difficult for me to find. few and far between wrecking yards up here.

96RedRunner · Jul 16, 2020

3bears said:
If I need the uncut ones, those will be very difficult for me to find. few and far between wrecking yards up here.

Think I'd go universal in your situation, Airlift link has chart to go by with your dimensions. Post 11

aontkos · Jul 16, 2020

Now I'm curious to know if anyone moved forward with this, especially someone running OME 891s. I've been toying around with getting some air bags after installing my swing out since I have no desire to run a longer spring.

My 891s work well with my 4x Innovations swing out, but my truck definitely sags when loaded up with camping gear. It seems like we've gotten some good information from air bag manufacturers, but has anyone bit the bullet and installed a kit in 891 springs?

Built4Run · Jul 16, 2020

TonyB66 said:
Good input. To that point, I heard back from Firestone:

The length isn't as important as the width. All of the applications we do have fitments for don’t fill the entire length and the gaps vary from vehicle to vehicle. The width is the thing you will want to be about the same. That is the important part with these bags.
++++++

Interesting. As I visualize the forces involved, it makes sense. My thinking, taking it to an extreme, having a bag 1" tall would provide little to no value though. So, height does matter, just maybe not so much once the bag involves a few wraps.

If the recommended bag for a stock 3rd gen is 7.5" tall, that, IMO, serves as a nice reference point for lifted rigs. I tend to believe the 9" bag will serve me well in that respect, again with the same diameter, which should be snug within the coil...

I heard back from Air Lift:

Hello Tony

Unfortunately we do not have a direct application for your vehicle due to the lift but you can check out our universal 1000 bags to see if you will work for you. Here is a link to our universal bag finder that will help you determine the best fit:

How To Build and Install an Air Lift 1000 Universal Kit | Air Lift Company - Tow and Haul with Safety and Comfort
++++++

Hopefully that might help the OP and others...

Yeah kinda hard to find the perfect fit with a lift. I been looking thanks for the link
:uzi:

Which Air Lift bags with 3.5 inch lift

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