The 3 happiest days of a 4Runner's life

Brawndo · Apr 14, 2016

The Day you pick her up from the dealer...
I rescued this pretty puppy on Feb 14th 2016. Yes, I have a very tolerant girlfriend.

Her first grooming...
April 4th, 2016. After a looooong wait for the dealership to receive the parts, the Icon stage 2 was installed.

April 8th, 2016. Her fist outing.
Up there with the excitement of a baby's first steps,
or the joy of watching a puppy go for her first swim,
is taking your new 4Runner to the desert to play in the dirt & mud for the first time.

Jeremy556 · Apr 14, 2016

That looks like way too much preload for stock weight

Brawndo · Apr 14, 2016

Jeremy556 said:
That looks like way too much preload for stock weight

Please explain. I'll be taking it back in for mandatory adjustments at the 1k miles or 30 day mark. Should I take it in before then?

The lift was installed by the dealership, who outsources the lift installs to 4x4 Parts. I'd like to think they know what they are doing, but you never know.

Jeremy556 · Apr 14, 2016

Brawndo said:
Please explain. I'll be taking it back in for mandatory adjustments at the 1k miles or 30 day mark. Should I take it in before then?

The lift was installed by the dealership, who outsources the lift installs to 4x4 Parts. I'd like to think they know what they are doing, but you never know.

The coilover shock has a threaded adjuster for preload of the spring, which directly affects ride height. We are already way, way, way beyond the expertise, competence, and abilities of any 4x4parts store. You're lucky they didn't manage to set it on fire or crash it between the half assed installing your parts and driving it to/from the incompetent firestone for mis-alignment

Brawndo · Apr 14, 2016

Jeremy556 said:
... We are already way, way, way beyond the expertise, competence, and abilities of any 4x4parts store. You're lucky they didn't manage to set it on fire or crash it between the half assed installing your parts and driving it to/from the incompetent firestone for mis-alignment

And that expertise is why I love this site. Can you give me some advice or ammo I can use to get the dealer to correct it? Perhaps I can get Icon support to chime in, or take it to a reputable 4x4 shop?

Thanks

wfo9 · Apr 14, 2016

I can't really tell from the pictures... but how level is your truck sitting... Is the front a little lower than the rear? It will also need a little time to settle in the rear....

If the pre-load and ride height up front are too high (much beyond 3" of lift), the CV boots will wear out quickly... and will cause a big mess and expensive repair.

If you post up the distance between that black adjustment collar and the black top cap of the shock (basically the exposed aluminum threads), we can tell you if it is too much. Mine measures about 1.9" and I feel it is about as high as it can go without causing CV boot issues. Again, the key is around 3" of lift above stock ride height. By looking at your picture carefully I think I can see how much they adjusted it from the ICON 2.5" setting. It looks like they went with a little bit too much. Back it down a few threads and you should be fine.

4wheel parts has a very bad reputation in the Toyota world. They tend to know nothing about them.

4Rager · Apr 14, 2016

wfo9 said:
4wheel parts has a very bad reputation in the Toyota world. They tend to know nothing about them.

The one around here isn't bad. At least the sales people. I guess that doesn't say anything about the techs actually doing the work. The guy I usually work with has a 1st Gen on 37's with an exo-cage, and he's pretty knowledgeable about Toyotas. I did the lift install myself, then trailered it to 4WP to do the alignment (I ordered my wheels/tires though them). It sounds like this might not be the case for other 4WP shops, but they actually do the alignment in house and it was just fine.

That being said, if I took it there for the lift install I doubt they've ever installed one on a 5th Gen before, therefor would probably not be familiar with KDSS or which bolts to remove to not stretch the ABS lines etc. That's not to say they couldn't figure it out, but if I'm paying someone to do the work I'd want to know that they've worked on my exact vehicle in the past.

Brawndo · Apr 15, 2016

wfo9 said:
I can't really tell from the pictures... but how level is your truck sitting... Is the front a little lower than the rear? It will also need a little time to settle in the rear....

If the pre-load and ride height up front are too high (much beyond 3" of lift), the CV boots will wear out quickly... and will cause a big mess and expensive repair.

If you post up the distance between that black adjustment collar and the black top cap of the shock (basically the exposed aluminum threads), we can tell you if it is too much. Mine measures about 1.9" and I feel it is about as high as it can go without causing CV boot issues. Again, the key is around 3" of lift above stock ride height. By looking at your picture carefully I think I can see how much they adjusted it from the ICON 2.5" setting. It looks like they went with a little bit too much. Back it down a few threads and you should be fine.

4wheel parts has a very bad reputation in the Toyota world. They tend to know nothing about them.

Alrighty. I snapped these pics this morning. It looks like there is about 2" of exposed thread. Should I still back it down a bit? The ride seems pretty level, I've tried eyeballing whether it's higher or lower in the front, but my brain starts playing tricks on me.
I'm pretty sure this lift was the first Icon lift the dealership had ever been exposed to. The salesman couldn't wrap his head around why I wanted Icon stage 2 instead of the $400 revtech spacer lift he tried to sell me.
The ride does feel a little off. Sometimes I need to tug on the steering wheel a little extra to straighten out from small turns. And the truck will pull a little to the left or right occasionally. :mmph:

I really appreciate the info, thank you...

Brawndo · Apr 15, 2016

4Rager said:
That being said, if I took it there for the lift install I doubt they've ever installed one on a 5th Gen before, therefor would probably not be familiar with KDSS or which bolts to remove to not stretch the ABS lines etc. That's not to say they couldn't figure it out, but if I'm paying someone to do the work I'd want to know that they've worked on my exact vehicle in the past.

The guy I spoke to from the shop said his department handles the Toyota lift installs for many dealerships in the San Diego area. I'd bet most of those installs are a lot less complex than an Icon stage 2 though. I think I'll sleep a little better if I have a known Toyota shop give her a once over.

Bourbonator · Apr 15, 2016

Brawndo said:
I'd bet most of those installs are a lot less complex than an Icon stage 2 though.

Installing coilovers is no more complex than installing spacers. Maybe even less complex. Installing the control arms depends on whether the ball joints are pressed or not. Either way, nothing that a trip to auto zone can't fix. Next time you upgrade your suspension, consider doing it yourself. It's more rewarding, and you can fix your own problems down the road.

salong53 · Apr 15, 2016

Brawndo said:
The ride seems pretty level, I've tried eyeballing whether it's higher or lower in the front, but my brain starts playing tricks on me.
The ride does feel a little off. Sometimes I need to tug on the steering wheel a little extra to straighten out from small turns. And the truck will pull a little to the left or right occasionally. :mmph:

Truck looks great. I'd almost guarantee the reason you say the ride feels "a little off" is because they have your caster improperly adjusted. I'd take it back and tell them to adjust the caster as close to 4 as they can get it, but definitely higher than 3.

Jasalvas · Apr 15, 2016

Congrats! I have not read through all of the posts or feedback received in the thread but I would have loved to have completed the same steps as you BUT... I am married!!! Installing a lift right after purchase... Shot down by the war room... [emoji52]
Hope you get the details worked out on the suspension and enjoy the rig!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KidVermicious · Apr 15, 2016

salong53 said:
Truck looks great. I'd almost guarantee the reason you say the ride feels "a little off" is because they have your caster improperly adjusted. I'd take it back and tell them to adjust the caster as close to 4 as they can get it, but definitely higher than 3.

This. Wandering and not returning to center is always a caster issue (assuming your steering parts are good).

#IFS problems

wfo9 · Apr 15, 2016

Brawndo said:
Alrighty. I snapped these pics this morning. It looks like there is about 2" of exposed thread. Should I still back it down a bit? The ride seems pretty level, I've tried eyeballing whether it's higher or lower in the front, but my brain starts playing tricks on me.
I'm pretty sure this lift was the first Icon lift the dealership had ever been exposed to. The salesman couldn't wrap his head around why I wanted Icon stage 2 instead of the $400 revtech spacer lift he tried to sell me.
The ride does feel a little off. Sometimes I need to tug on the steering wheel a little extra to straighten out from small turns. And the truck will pull a little to the left or right occasionally. :mmph:

I really appreciate the info, thank you...

It looks a tad high, but probably nothing to really worry about. If you are worried.. Spend 5 minutes and adjust it (maybe 1 or two turns looser - so the collar rises ). It is super easy to do. You just need to loosen the allen key that locks the collar and then turn it with a special spanner wrench that you can get from ICON for ~$30. It also helps to have the tires off the ground when doing this to relieve some tension.

Besides that, I bet the alignment is not that good. They key to a good ride with a lift like that is about 4.5* of positive caster. The truck simply might not allow that much, but have them set the caster as high as possible without throwing off the camber. The factory specs for caster are just not high enough for a lifted truck.

Brawndo · Apr 15, 2016

Bourbonator said:
Next time you upgrade your suspension, consider doing it yourself. It's more rewarding, and you can fix your own problems down the road.

My mechanical skills are no close to where they need to be to where I feel comfortable doing much to a brand new vehicle. Now my '85 4Runner, that's a different story. On the '85 I've replaced the shocks, and a few other mods here and there. And yes, I do find it very rewarding.

Brawndo · Apr 15, 2016

salong53 said:
Truck looks great. I'd almost guarantee the reason you say the ride feels "a little off" is because they have your caster improperly adjusted. I'd take it back and tell them to adjust the caster as close to 4 as they can get it, but definitely higher than 3.

Thank you! I'll contact the dealer to ask them about the caster. When I get home I'm going to check if they gave me any alignment related paperwork.

antwone · Apr 15, 2016

What is your wheel? Looks so nice!

Brawndo · Apr 15, 2016

Jasalvas said:
Congrats! I have not read through all of the posts or feedback received in the thread but I would have loved to have completed the same steps as you BUT... I am married!!! Installing a lift right after purchase... Shot down by the war room... [emoji52]
Hope you get the details worked out on the suspension and enjoy the rig!

My GF had to endure me constantly showing her pictures from build threads for a good 2 years now. I think she went along with it for her own mental health benefits. :jump:
It was kind of funny, the "closer" salesman was looking at her for approval for almost everything. She was able negotiate adding the window tint to the aftermarket package.

Brawndo · Apr 15, 2016

wfo9 said:
It looks a tad high, but probably nothing to really worry about. If you are worried.. Spend 5 minutes and adjust it (maybe 1 or two turns looser - so the collar rises ). It is super easy to do. You just need to loosen the allen key that locks the collar and then turn it with a special spanner wrench that you can get from ICON for ~$30. It also helps to have the tires off the ground when doing this to relieve some tension.

Besides that, I bet the alignment is not that good. They key to a good ride with a lift like that is about 4.5* of positive caster. The truck simply might not allow that much, but have them set the caster as high as possible without throwing off the camber. The factory specs for caster are just not high enough for a lifted truck.

I didn't know it was that easy to adjust. I'll be ordering that spanner wrench ASAP. I'll be taking the truck in to get the caster adjusted soon. Probably be a good idea to catch up on the alignment threads I've stumbled upon here on T4R.

Okki · Apr 16, 2016

Check out my build thread for details on measuring truck height (you hopefully took "before" measurements) and for alignment numbers with the lift installed. My truck has the stage 6 with all billet parts, but it should get you to a better place and give you some numbers to shoot for / compare against.

Okki

The 3 happiest days of a 4Runner's life

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