Tow in CO? Need help settling on trailer GVWR!
- Thread starter b407driver
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b407driver
New member
[MENTION=148925]Off2Mtns[/MENTION] thanks so much for taking the time to relay your Xterra experiences here in CO, it is super-helpful in all respects, and I'll be curious to hear your impressions after towing with your 4Runner.
Regarding the Murphy, my wife simply thinks that it will be inconvenient, but you make a good point about space utilization when you're not using the bed. We're already making compromises in trying to keep the weight down, and that was one of the lines we drew (however arbitrary it might be).
Interesting you brought up dry-camping, as I spent some time today researching aspects of it that would affect trailer choice (and ended up reading a lot about solar). It's definitely in the cards for us, and hopefully neither the Lance nor the R-Pod will be a bad choice. The last nagging question I have about the Lance is whether flipping the axle will be enough ground clearance (read: increase in departure angle) for some of the UT roads I'd like to get into. The '17 R-Pod Hood River Editions gained another 2" (welded-in spacer) over last year, but the lack of skylight in the bathroom bugs me.
Anyway, thanks again for the info, and look forward to hearing your upcoming experiences.
Cheers!
-Jeff
Regarding the Murphy, my wife simply thinks that it will be inconvenient, but you make a good point about space utilization when you're not using the bed. We're already making compromises in trying to keep the weight down, and that was one of the lines we drew (however arbitrary it might be).
Interesting you brought up dry-camping, as I spent some time today researching aspects of it that would affect trailer choice (and ended up reading a lot about solar). It's definitely in the cards for us, and hopefully neither the Lance nor the R-Pod will be a bad choice. The last nagging question I have about the Lance is whether flipping the axle will be enough ground clearance (read: increase in departure angle) for some of the UT roads I'd like to get into. The '17 R-Pod Hood River Editions gained another 2" (welded-in spacer) over last year, but the lack of skylight in the bathroom bugs me.
Anyway, thanks again for the info, and look forward to hearing your upcoming experiences.
Cheers!
-Jeff
007Tacoma
New member
My parent's last trailer (they moved to a Class-C) had a murphy bed, and they both miss it. Much more comfortable and space saving than any other bed they have had in a trailer (although their 5th wheel had a super comfy king size bed).
With some of the newly designed ultra-lights having very nice murphy beds, I would want to stick to that.
With some of the newly designed ultra-lights having very nice murphy beds, I would want to stick to that.
b407driver
New member
I have towed our new rpod 182g about 300 miles now; this is my long winded experience so far.
3278 pounds loaded, give or take for water, 360-pound tongue weight. It dropped the rear a little over 2.5 inches with everything empty and raised the front just over an inch. Installed the Fastway e2 weight distributing hitch, model FA92-00-0450. With the default settings, the front was back to level with the rear within .5 inch. Loaded up and added a little more spring. Ride was night and day different, no kick, just rock solid. Before installing the hitch I only had sway once due to some tramlining in 18-wheeler grooves that don't match the width of the trailer. After putting on the hitch, I repeated the exact section of road, it rode the edge of the groove without falling in, rock solid. I've towed boats and flatbed trailers all of my driving life, but never a giant slab-sided marshmallow. It is a different load due to wind and the profile. The hitch helps in this situation to properly distribute the weight and prevent sway.
Now I can load up all of my family, family crap, dogs, whatever, and the camper and be perfectly level while maintaining proper weights on the front and rear axle. The scales said I could even add a couple hundred pounds of more crap in both the camper and the truck.
I have been very happy with the fuel economy; towing I can get around 14-15+ (onboard claims as good as 16, lol) on a flat road at 63 or so, which is amazing. I pulled it with my in-laws duramax, 11 mpg but you could not feel it back there.
It moves along just fine but has no guts on the highway, which is fine and is to be expected. Hills around Tennessee can be brutal, but we move up them just fine for now. With the family in tow I'm in no hurry and stick to a safe speed, but not using the cruise it's hard to keep it from creeping to 70+.
Hopkins insight brake controller works well, stops on a dime after dialing in the trailer brakes. I purchased an ultraguage to monitor my temps, and it is always on. Surprisingly the temps are only a few degrees higher when towing than in stop and go traffic. Stop and go and constant high speed (cruise at 80 or so) really raise the temps. While towing, water temp stays no greater than 194, the converter hit 208 degrees after some traffic but settled right back to the 180's. I let it shift to 5th on a flat section of road at 65 just to watch the temps, and the converter temp started to climb rapidly, back to 4th gear - end of that experiment. The converter is still unlocking in 4th gear depending on road conditions. We have a two hour trip next weekend and it will be a little warmer, no worries.
I don't subscribe to the "must have a duramax 3500 dually to tow anything" mindset, very impressed with the 4Runner. Time will tell when the air temps climb into the upper 90's, but for now, it is just fine. I can see myself upgrading to a GX460 or similar in a few years when we jump to a 26 footer, or I get tired of my foot to the floor, but for now; we have a great towing combo.
Controller remote:
No weight distribution, on my test drive:
How do you like the RP-182? The 180 is on our short list. Not sure how you keep loaded weight below 3300 with a dry weight (no options) of 2836, but well done!
Here's my 2 cents, being in a VERY similar situation to the OP:
Current Vehicle setup: We've got a 2017 T4R, with a Toytec 2.5BOSS lift installed, using their "standard" rear springs. First installed their HD springs and they were huge overkill when not towing - too damn stiff, and created ridiculous rake. NO supplemental airbags etc. Have an electronic brake controller installed (Tekonsha RF model), NO weight dist. hitch, but I did make sure i got a new drawbar (hitch ball mount) that had ideal drop, so the trailer tows level.
Trailer: 2010 R-Pod R172. I typically tow it with a group 31 AGM battery (pretty heavy) and 50%+ full propane tank on the tongue rack, 1/2 - 3/4 full fresh water tank, and 2-4 days of stuff inside.
Towing experience overall: We mainly tow around Colorado, Utah and New Mexico. We live at 6,900 ft, and routinely tow over 10,000+ mountain passes.
I've been towing this setup extensively for 4+ years with a 2007 v8 4Runner. (It may be useful for background that for 10+ years I towed various race cars/trailers all over the east coast with a Chevy Tahoe and a Ford F250) IMHO, virtually any vehicle could use more HP and Tq, but the v8 runner seemed adequate towing the R-Pod. It did great in the mountains, actually. Where it was weaker was trying to maintain over 65 mph on highways, but I probably shouldn't be doing that anyway...and the R-Pod is an aerodynamic brick (it's REALLY tall for a trailer its size.)
I felt like the 2007 v8 could use better brakes, but the R-Pod brakes are fine and the overall towing experience was fine as well.
With the 2017, its towing manners are better than the '07 in most ways...it's more stable, has better brakes, the aftermarket suspension is stiffer than the stock 2007 so it wallows less, and it's noticeably taller, which seems to help aerodynamically - there's less "full frontal" R-Pod exposed above the 4runner roofline.
HOWEVER, the 2017 sucks IMHO in the power department. Towing this past weekend on the relatively modest, lower elevation grades between Durango and Moab was effing torture. In some places it seemed like the engine was going to grenade just trying to maintain 10-15 mph UNDER posted speed limits, and the transmission "hunting" was unbearable.
In my opinion, for towing an R-Pod size trailer around the rocky mountains, I would not buy a 6 cylinder 4Runner if i had to do it over again. I would probably go Tundra, even though I prefer the SUV platform...
Current Vehicle setup: We've got a 2017 T4R, with a Toytec 2.5BOSS lift installed, using their "standard" rear springs. First installed their HD springs and they were huge overkill when not towing - too damn stiff, and created ridiculous rake. NO supplemental airbags etc. Have an electronic brake controller installed (Tekonsha RF model), NO weight dist. hitch, but I did make sure i got a new drawbar (hitch ball mount) that had ideal drop, so the trailer tows level.
Trailer: 2010 R-Pod R172. I typically tow it with a group 31 AGM battery (pretty heavy) and 50%+ full propane tank on the tongue rack, 1/2 - 3/4 full fresh water tank, and 2-4 days of stuff inside.
Towing experience overall: We mainly tow around Colorado, Utah and New Mexico. We live at 6,900 ft, and routinely tow over 10,000+ mountain passes.
I've been towing this setup extensively for 4+ years with a 2007 v8 4Runner. (It may be useful for background that for 10+ years I towed various race cars/trailers all over the east coast with a Chevy Tahoe and a Ford F250) IMHO, virtually any vehicle could use more HP and Tq, but the v8 runner seemed adequate towing the R-Pod. It did great in the mountains, actually. Where it was weaker was trying to maintain over 65 mph on highways, but I probably shouldn't be doing that anyway...and the R-Pod is an aerodynamic brick (it's REALLY tall for a trailer its size.)
I felt like the 2007 v8 could use better brakes, but the R-Pod brakes are fine and the overall towing experience was fine as well.
With the 2017, its towing manners are better than the '07 in most ways...it's more stable, has better brakes, the aftermarket suspension is stiffer than the stock 2007 so it wallows less, and it's noticeably taller, which seems to help aerodynamically - there's less "full frontal" R-Pod exposed above the 4runner roofline.
HOWEVER, the 2017 sucks IMHO in the power department. Towing this past weekend on the relatively modest, lower elevation grades between Durango and Moab was effing torture. In some places it seemed like the engine was going to grenade just trying to maintain 10-15 mph UNDER posted speed limits, and the transmission "hunting" was unbearable.
In my opinion, for towing an R-Pod size trailer around the rocky mountains, I would not buy a 6 cylinder 4Runner if i had to do it over again. I would probably go Tundra, even though I prefer the SUV platform...
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b407driver
New member
I hit 'Like' before I read your next-to-last paragraph, lol.
Thanks for the info, good to know. Do you know your trailer's actual weight as towed, and do you load the 4Runner up with weight?
Sorry, I don't know the weight of the R-Pod. I've never had the opportunity to weigh it. In the 4runner we had 310 lbs of people, a full cooler and a few misc items. No roof racks, gas or water jugs etc. all of our bikes and other gear were in the older truck.
And I really like my 5th gen 4runner. For everything except towing, I'm totally happy with it.
I think once you've towed with a big diesel, any small displacement gas motor falls short. The v8 4th gen at least makes me feel like I'm not absolutely torturing the vehicle. I'm actually afraid I'm doing damage to the 5th gen :-(
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I've towed the R-Pod with our 2007 v8 over Red Mountain at least a dozen times, and Wolf Creek a few times as well. But I've only had the 2017 4runner for 6 weeks, so I haven't towed over those passes with it. Honestly, there's a pretty good chance that I never will, as I'm thinking the 2007 will be the primary tow vehicle going forward.
The engine braking performance seemed fine, though. Honestly other than pure pulling power, the 2017 was a champ. It was super windy on the way back from Moab, and it felt 100% stable.
If we had a lighter, more aero trailer I think the 2017 would be perfect. Maybe it's time to place an order for that Safari Condo! :biggrin2:
Caravane Alto 1713
Based on my experience this weekend, I would not want to tow a 3K trailer in the mountains. In the flats, OK. West of Denver, nope.
Mission: take boy scout trailer from Littleton to a camp above Conifer. I was "pinch towing" since our normal tow rig (Dodge Ram) was unavailable.
Payload: don't have an exact weight, but the last time the trailer was weighed with similar cargo it was over 3K. With the people and gear in the 4R itself, easily 3.5K.
Truck: My 2016 TE, with Airlift 1000 set at 20psi. Tekonsha P3 controller to operate the electric trailer brakes. I measured transmission pan temp and torque converter temp with OBD Fusion.
The rig (note the dual axles, which meant it was very stable):
On the trip up, it did great on C-470. Easily held 65-70mph with RPM hovering around 2500. But then once on Hwy 285 South, it got more difficult as you might expect. Transmission on S4. Had trouble keeping up with the traffic--also no surprise. At least it is 2 lanes on this part of 285. What worried me was TC temps. TC temps would spike on the steep pulls and then drop like a rock when the hill leveled out. As the drive progressed, TC temps kept climbing gradually until the spikes would hit 223. Any further than Conifer and I would have stopped to let it cool. I averaged 10 mpg for the trip up.
On the trip down, well that was easy. Braking no problem.
Now for my subjective conclusion: I would not want to do this up I-70 where the speeds and traffic are crazier and the steep pulls longer. I am very glad I was only going to Conifer. No way would I want to do this for long drives unless it was in the flatlands on, say, I-25 or I-70 East. I'll "pinch tow" for the scouts on the easier runs (which is a couple times per year).
I think Denver to Steamboat (a drive I have done dozens of times in various vehicles) with this payload would kill the 4R. Maybe even Denver to BV would be too much. My opinion is that pulling a 3500 lb trailer in the Colorado mountains with the 4R is a mistake. If you are going to haul this payload even a few times a year, get a better rig for it. You go to the mountains to relax and have fun. Why add the worry? If you keep the 4R there's always tent camping. :biggrin2:
Mission: take boy scout trailer from Littleton to a camp above Conifer. I was "pinch towing" since our normal tow rig (Dodge Ram) was unavailable.
Payload: don't have an exact weight, but the last time the trailer was weighed with similar cargo it was over 3K. With the people and gear in the 4R itself, easily 3.5K.
Truck: My 2016 TE, with Airlift 1000 set at 20psi. Tekonsha P3 controller to operate the electric trailer brakes. I measured transmission pan temp and torque converter temp with OBD Fusion.
The rig (note the dual axles, which meant it was very stable):
On the trip up, it did great on C-470. Easily held 65-70mph with RPM hovering around 2500. But then once on Hwy 285 South, it got more difficult as you might expect. Transmission on S4. Had trouble keeping up with the traffic--also no surprise. At least it is 2 lanes on this part of 285. What worried me was TC temps. TC temps would spike on the steep pulls and then drop like a rock when the hill leveled out. As the drive progressed, TC temps kept climbing gradually until the spikes would hit 223. Any further than Conifer and I would have stopped to let it cool. I averaged 10 mpg for the trip up.
On the trip down, well that was easy. Braking no problem.
Now for my subjective conclusion: I would not want to do this up I-70 where the speeds and traffic are crazier and the steep pulls longer. I am very glad I was only going to Conifer. No way would I want to do this for long drives unless it was in the flatlands on, say, I-25 or I-70 East. I'll "pinch tow" for the scouts on the easier runs (which is a couple times per year).
I think Denver to Steamboat (a drive I have done dozens of times in various vehicles) with this payload would kill the 4R. Maybe even Denver to BV would be too much. My opinion is that pulling a 3500 lb trailer in the Colorado mountains with the 4R is a mistake. If you are going to haul this payload even a few times a year, get a better rig for it. You go to the mountains to relax and have fun. Why add the worry? If you keep the 4R there's always tent camping. :biggrin2:
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Donkey
New member
We love it. No complaints. Rear garage area is awesome as you are outside 90% of the time. I measured it on my test drive, 2990 as shipped just as the yellow sticker stated. We travel light, enough water for an emergency and food for the weekend. Mostly 3-4 day trips so we don't have much, kitchen stuff, etc is pretty light. I'm sure it's closer to 3400 now with whatever crap my wife filled it with but it does not feel any different. After a few hundred miles I'm way more comfortable pulling it around the mountains. My transmission temp has never exceeded 210 degrees (converter temp has been 236) and we have some good hills here in TN and I have no problems maintaining speed. 4th gear, cruise at 60-65mph or faster without issue. WDH is a must, I have an e2 trunnion 450#. Airbags don't return weight to the front axle. See if they will let you test pull one and find some hills, that answered many of my questions. My only regret is not getting one sooner. In the future, if we upgrade to a 5k pound 24" I'll get a GX or a tundra, but the 4runner is perfect for what we have now.
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b407driver
New member
Thanks, good to know you're happy with the trailer. I just ran across the Travel Lite Falcon F-20 and F-21, so my short list just added one additional manufacturer.
AZ_Joe
New member
Believe me, I’ve searched, found, and read every thread possible to try and glean the info I need! There’s so much confounding information about towing on the forums, from people towing max 5000 lbs at 10k just fine, to people who think the 5th Gen sucks at sea level with 3000 lbs.
I think I now need specific towing experiences/suggestions from 5th Gen owners who live in Colorado and routinely tow in the mountains. I know I didn’t buy the 4Runner as a tow vehicle (who would?), but it’s what I have, and I knew I’d have to make-do with the limited towing I’ll do.
Here’s my dilemma:
My wife and I are trying to settle on an Ultralight Travel Trailer (KZ SC 151RB, Lance 1475, R-Pod RP-180, etc.), with some pretty specific limitations:
- ‘we’ (cough!) want a dry bathroom (i.e. no showering/shitting at the same time);
- we’d like an actual queen bed (i.e. no Murphy or build-a-bed);
- we’d prefer it to sleep 3-4, but 2 may have to work (kids are nearly out to college, anyway); and
- it must be hard-sided, obviously (and no A-frames).
The more we look at trailers and the more I read people’s experiences, the more I convince myself that I need to keep the weight as low as possible. Right now, the trailers that barely satisfy our minimum requirements have dry weights around 2500-2700 lbs, giving actual weights (on the lot, with options) of 2700-2950# lbs., with GVWR in the 3500-3800# range. I’ve estimated that our likely loading will result in total trailer weights around 3400-3700#. The truck is likely to be loaded to about 5850#, giving a combined of 9500#+ (which leaves an available vehicle payload of ~500 lbs. remaining). The heaviest of the five trailers currently in the running is estimated to be 3675# loaded, almost exactly 75% of the 4Runner’s 4900# tow rating. Vehicle is a '16 TRD Trail w/KDSS, stock size Cooper AT3 Load C.
It will be used maybe 1-2x/month mostly in CO, WY, UT, and NM, with occasional longer trips, always hauling two mountain bikes on a hitch-mount. I have no interest being limited to driving 30mph up Floyd Hill, I'd at least like to be in the ballpark.
Since you can’t load up a trailer and go test drive it, I guess at this point I need to rely on the expertise of people who live in similar environments that tow with their 5th Gen 4Runner. I’m trying to figure out if pulling ~3500 lbs. will be a mistake, living here in CO. I’d be willing to install airbags, a transmission cooler and W/D hitch if necessary (as well as brakes/controller), but I’m a towing noob, and don’t really know what makes the most sense. Heck, I still cannot decipher from the forums whether a W/D hitch should even be used, or is needed with out trucks!
In a perfect world I’d love to hear information relating to how much weight can be *reasonably* pulled in the Front Range environment, where virtually anywhere I want to go entails crossing at least one mountain pass of 10,000 feet, if not several, as well as any of the above-mentioned options you’d consider useless or priceless.
Lastly, thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide. I have a chance to try and get this right the first time, and since there’s no turning back on vehicle choice now, I need to get the trailer that will work for the truck and the environment I’m in.
Cheers!
PS: I included a screenshot of my homework.
My current set up is a 2016 T4R with 2.5 in Toytec lift and nitto grapplers. I'm currently towing a Lance 1575 and live in Arizona. To escape the summer heat most head for the mountains. I've towed our TT up 6% grades with 115 degree temps. I did not like it! Flat terrain it does ok, averaging around 2400rpms at 65-70mph. WDH and swaybar help a lot, along with e-brakes. We currently preparing for a 2month camping trip from Phoenix to Banf nat park, to Vancouver BC and down California. I am a little nervous of the mountains but I feel we should be good if we just take it easy. After we come back I will be re-evaluating our trailer needs and possibly looking for a more off-road worthy trailer, hopefully I can convince the wife into a turtleback or an intech flyer max. Lance's are extremely low we sent ours out to get lifted and now feel a little more comfortable. We love the Lance and hope this trip goes as well as our other ones and I'll come back not wanting anything else. Sorry for the long write up, just my 2cents towing a Lance.
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b407driver
New member
Thanks for sharing that! How did you lift your Lance? Factory told me it couldn't be done since it doesn't have leaf-spring suspension, and has the 'old style' frame (which was odd considering the 1475 is its newest model).
I've also sort of decided that the Lance is potentially a little too low for our dirt road needs, and ran across Travel Lite's Flacon series, which I had not seen nor heard anything about (probably because they are so new). It looks like they are fairly aerodynamic, and the smallest version is in our weight range (though has a 'wet' bath, which will really take some talking-into for my wife). In considering the aerodynamics and clearance issues, I tried to mock up our three choices visually (normalized dimensions to actual as best I could in Photoshop). It was a little hard to get the hitch area correct due to winging it with crappy Google images, but enough to get the idea:
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antonio430
New member
Ever look at the Jumpin Jack?
So I live in CO. and was facing a very similar problem you are. I looked at pop ups, a frames all of it, and really a 4 runner owner has 2 dilemmas. the 5000 tow rating, and the durability of the axle on the trailer, because the whole point of the vehicle is to get off the road. Although it doesnt totally fit y our criteria check out the jumping jack: Tent Trailers | Jumping Jack Trailers I have owned one for 2 years now and the axle is probably indestructible. Meaning you can pull it anywhere. You can also easily slide the toilet buddies in and transport it closed, (I carry all kinds of crap on the inside), tables, kitchen stuff etc.
total weight right around 2000 lbs
Now its not a hard top, but marine canvas. It comes with a spot to hold a propane tank which I run a heating buddy from and heat the whole thing. Easily sleeps 6. and you can strap whatever to the top. Canoe, coolers 4x4s. whatever. Oh and it doubles as a utility trailer. you have to get creative on your kitchen set up, but they have those accessories too.
Found mine on craigslist for $4500 used.
Final thought I installed a trany cooler(absolutely necessary), and plan on putting trailer brakes this summer(over kill, but why not save those brakes.) .
So I live in CO. and was facing a very similar problem you are. I looked at pop ups, a frames all of it, and really a 4 runner owner has 2 dilemmas. the 5000 tow rating, and the durability of the axle on the trailer, because the whole point of the vehicle is to get off the road. Although it doesnt totally fit y our criteria check out the jumping jack: Tent Trailers | Jumping Jack Trailers I have owned one for 2 years now and the axle is probably indestructible. Meaning you can pull it anywhere. You can also easily slide the toilet buddies in and transport it closed, (I carry all kinds of crap on the inside), tables, kitchen stuff etc.
total weight right around 2000 lbs
Now its not a hard top, but marine canvas. It comes with a spot to hold a propane tank which I run a heating buddy from and heat the whole thing. Easily sleeps 6. and you can strap whatever to the top. Canoe, coolers 4x4s. whatever. Oh and it doubles as a utility trailer. you have to get creative on your kitchen set up, but they have those accessories too.
Found mine on craigslist for $4500 used.
Final thought I installed a trany cooler(absolutely necessary), and plan on putting trailer brakes this summer(over kill, but why not save those brakes.) .
b407driver
New member
I'll probably do the tranny cooler, W/D hitch and brake controller, but my Social Director won't go for canvas.
007Tacoma
New member
I am running into the same issue. I really want to do an RTT on an off road trailer, but my better (looking and everything else) half does not think it prudent.
We will be in Fort Collins for a week in June. I would love to stop by and see your setup.
First trip done. We headed to Eleven Mile Reservoir over Memorial weekend. The 4Runner did… okay.
Set-up:
2016 4Runner SR5 with stock size P265/70 General Grabber AT2, 2” lift (Bilstein 1.75” + 1/4” spacer up front, Daystar 1.5” spacer plus Firestone Coil-Rite airbags out back @ 25 psi for towing), sliders + full Shrock skids, Prodigy P2 brake controller, Equal-i-zer Weight Distributing Hitch (WDH).
Trailer is a 2012/2013 Forest River Flagstaff Micro-Lite 19FD, 19 ft long, rated 2900# dry from the factory so figure 3500# ready to go with 2 bottles of propane, dual 6V golf cart batteries, camping gear, and empty tanks.
Trip Report:
This was our first trip out with the new 4Runner and trailer. We have been towing the past 5 years with a 2006 Nissan Xterra with comparably spec’d 4.0L V6 (265 hp, 280 tq), auto trans, HD OME suspension, winch, and a few hundred pounds of sliders & skids; the Xterra was a few hundred pounds lighter than the 4Runner, towed very well, had plenty of torque, and tranny seemed geared just right in about every scenario. It set a very high bar expectation wise moving to the 4Runner and I am still getting over it, lol.
On the whole I say the 4Runner did okay. The vehicle/trailer combo felt extremely stable with the airbags and WDH combo, and in my opinion and experience, a good WDH is essential, non-optional equipment for a short wheelbase, midsize SUV pulling a big heavy trailer like this, especially with the single trailer axle; it helps eliminate some of the bounce going down the road, removes much of the rear end sag, eliminates trailer sway, and just seems to solidify the whole vehicle/trailer combination, resulting in a much more confident and unified pairing. We logged a lot of miles in five years with this trailer behind the Xterra, always running around the CO mtn passes, a 3k mile roadtrip to the PNW our first year, SW UT (Moab & locale), and thru many high wind experiences, and we have always felt planted and safe with the Equal-i-zer. It is absolutely worth every penny and I would not consider towing without it.
WDH set-up:
Unhitched, 25 psi in rear bags for all photos:
Hitched, no WDH:
Hitched, with WD bars added:
Braking is fine, no concerns there. Tekonsha Prodigy P2 is a good, reputable proportional controller with plenty of adjustments, easy to set-up and use, and using the Tekonsha supplied harness, the combo was plug and play, no issues. The manual activation lever for the trailer brakes is a quick and easy way to check the brakes are working on the trailer cruising down the road.
I did need a trailer plug relocation or extension for the remote location of the 7-pin receptacle. Left turns only otherwise. I bought a $40 extension on Amazon that did the trick without any need for relocating anything. Plug and play, remove when done. https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-7-Pi...0057KB0J8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
For mirrors, I picked up a set of ratcheting style generic add on mirrors from Advance Auto Parts when we first got the trailer. These are big mirrors and work great. The ratchet mechanism eliminates wobble. The set-up is a little awkward with the contoured 4Runner mirrors, but it works. Pardon the bird poop. https://www.amazon.com/Fit-System-3...001AJH1HK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Now, power and gearing. My biggest reservation with the 4Runner from the original test drive was the power, or lack thereof. More specifically, the absent low end torque. Toyotas are legendary for this---good reliable drivetrain, but peppy, high revving motors with all the power on the middle to high end. Combine this with a quick-to-shift tranny geared for fuel economy (which it still sucks at, by the way) and you have a combination that is less than ideal for towing. I knew this, so my expectations were low.
All things considered, it did okay. I towed exclusively in S4 to keep the OD off, but I might as well have only had a 2 or 3 speed tranny anyway. Headed up to camp, I really did not find myself out of second gear most of the time due to speed, incline, and again, lack of low end power. Ute Pass out of the Springs is not steep by CO standards, but the winding road keeps the speeds down enough that I could not get out of second without losing all my power (RPM) and momentum. There are a few decent hills beyond the Pass as well, and any time I hit the slightest of inclines chugging along in third gear in the 50-60 mph range, the vehicle speed would start to drop steadily and you could tell the vehicle needed to be in a lower gear, so I would then drop the speed sub-50 mph and drop it to second gear to find some power again, which was in the 3k-4k RPM range. Getting the speed up to 60+ mph in third gear to find the power was a challenge on this stretch of Hwy 24. This was a short trip, 1/1.5 hour to our destination, but I could seriously see this getting old on a trip across state or lengthy road trip. I just don’t like the RPM revving so high for a long sustained period, which limits top speed. Coming home was no problem as it is mostly flat or down hill, so I finally was able to find and use fourth gear again.
So, it gets the job done, but is a little annoying having to be so limited. I might consider regearing to 4.56s just to give me another usable gear option/shift point, but will probably spend the summer on stock gears to see how some more challenging routes/grades go; we are headed to Estes Park for July 4th and down to the Sand Dunes NP in August. I am concerned, too, about regearing and losing a good usable speed/RPM/power zone---power in second gear in the mid-40 mph zone is ideal and critical for many passes we frequent, not the least of which I am concerned about is Monarch. I might wait for one of our trips to Ouray before I make the final decision on regearing for towing as I do not want to find myself in between final drive ratios/speeds with the sweet spot somewhere in the middle.
Anyways, hope that helps. For anybody finding themselves in the OP conundrum, searching for a trailer to tow in the mountains with their 4Runner, do yourself a favor and keep the weight down to a 3500# max. I cannot imagine trying to pull anything heavier.
Set-up:
2016 4Runner SR5 with stock size P265/70 General Grabber AT2, 2” lift (Bilstein 1.75” + 1/4” spacer up front, Daystar 1.5” spacer plus Firestone Coil-Rite airbags out back @ 25 psi for towing), sliders + full Shrock skids, Prodigy P2 brake controller, Equal-i-zer Weight Distributing Hitch (WDH).
Trailer is a 2012/2013 Forest River Flagstaff Micro-Lite 19FD, 19 ft long, rated 2900# dry from the factory so figure 3500# ready to go with 2 bottles of propane, dual 6V golf cart batteries, camping gear, and empty tanks.
Trip Report:
This was our first trip out with the new 4Runner and trailer. We have been towing the past 5 years with a 2006 Nissan Xterra with comparably spec’d 4.0L V6 (265 hp, 280 tq), auto trans, HD OME suspension, winch, and a few hundred pounds of sliders & skids; the Xterra was a few hundred pounds lighter than the 4Runner, towed very well, had plenty of torque, and tranny seemed geared just right in about every scenario. It set a very high bar expectation wise moving to the 4Runner and I am still getting over it, lol.
On the whole I say the 4Runner did okay. The vehicle/trailer combo felt extremely stable with the airbags and WDH combo, and in my opinion and experience, a good WDH is essential, non-optional equipment for a short wheelbase, midsize SUV pulling a big heavy trailer like this, especially with the single trailer axle; it helps eliminate some of the bounce going down the road, removes much of the rear end sag, eliminates trailer sway, and just seems to solidify the whole vehicle/trailer combination, resulting in a much more confident and unified pairing. We logged a lot of miles in five years with this trailer behind the Xterra, always running around the CO mtn passes, a 3k mile roadtrip to the PNW our first year, SW UT (Moab & locale), and thru many high wind experiences, and we have always felt planted and safe with the Equal-i-zer. It is absolutely worth every penny and I would not consider towing without it.
WDH set-up:
Unhitched, 25 psi in rear bags for all photos:
Hitched, no WDH:
Hitched, with WD bars added:
Braking is fine, no concerns there. Tekonsha Prodigy P2 is a good, reputable proportional controller with plenty of adjustments, easy to set-up and use, and using the Tekonsha supplied harness, the combo was plug and play, no issues. The manual activation lever for the trailer brakes is a quick and easy way to check the brakes are working on the trailer cruising down the road.
I did need a trailer plug relocation or extension for the remote location of the 7-pin receptacle. Left turns only otherwise. I bought a $40 extension on Amazon that did the trick without any need for relocating anything. Plug and play, remove when done. https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-7-Pi...0057KB0J8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
For mirrors, I picked up a set of ratcheting style generic add on mirrors from Advance Auto Parts when we first got the trailer. These are big mirrors and work great. The ratchet mechanism eliminates wobble. The set-up is a little awkward with the contoured 4Runner mirrors, but it works. Pardon the bird poop. https://www.amazon.com/Fit-System-3...001AJH1HK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
Now, power and gearing. My biggest reservation with the 4Runner from the original test drive was the power, or lack thereof. More specifically, the absent low end torque. Toyotas are legendary for this---good reliable drivetrain, but peppy, high revving motors with all the power on the middle to high end. Combine this with a quick-to-shift tranny geared for fuel economy (which it still sucks at, by the way) and you have a combination that is less than ideal for towing. I knew this, so my expectations were low.
All things considered, it did okay. I towed exclusively in S4 to keep the OD off, but I might as well have only had a 2 or 3 speed tranny anyway. Headed up to camp, I really did not find myself out of second gear most of the time due to speed, incline, and again, lack of low end power. Ute Pass out of the Springs is not steep by CO standards, but the winding road keeps the speeds down enough that I could not get out of second without losing all my power (RPM) and momentum. There are a few decent hills beyond the Pass as well, and any time I hit the slightest of inclines chugging along in third gear in the 50-60 mph range, the vehicle speed would start to drop steadily and you could tell the vehicle needed to be in a lower gear, so I would then drop the speed sub-50 mph and drop it to second gear to find some power again, which was in the 3k-4k RPM range. Getting the speed up to 60+ mph in third gear to find the power was a challenge on this stretch of Hwy 24. This was a short trip, 1/1.5 hour to our destination, but I could seriously see this getting old on a trip across state or lengthy road trip. I just don’t like the RPM revving so high for a long sustained period, which limits top speed. Coming home was no problem as it is mostly flat or down hill, so I finally was able to find and use fourth gear again.
So, it gets the job done, but is a little annoying having to be so limited. I might consider regearing to 4.56s just to give me another usable gear option/shift point, but will probably spend the summer on stock gears to see how some more challenging routes/grades go; we are headed to Estes Park for July 4th and down to the Sand Dunes NP in August. I am concerned, too, about regearing and losing a good usable speed/RPM/power zone---power in second gear in the mid-40 mph zone is ideal and critical for many passes we frequent, not the least of which I am concerned about is Monarch. I might wait for one of our trips to Ouray before I make the final decision on regearing for towing as I do not want to find myself in between final drive ratios/speeds with the sweet spot somewhere in the middle.
Anyways, hope that helps. For anybody finding themselves in the OP conundrum, searching for a trailer to tow in the mountains with their 4Runner, do yourself a favor and keep the weight down to a 3500# max. I cannot imagine trying to pull anything heavier.
Common theme. Glad your trip went well, but people are too afraid to let the motor rev. Let it sit at 4-5k RPMs up a long grade in 2nd gear to maintain speed. What is it going to hurt? Nothing at all, except your fuel mileage. It's going to be at partial throttle and will keep the motor in it's happy place. That fan will be spinning quick enough to keep everything cool, especially if you have an aux trans cooler.
Everyone complains about the transmission shifting too quickly and keeping the RPMs too low, which i totally agree with. I wish we had an ECT or tow button like the tacos, but you can always use S2 and S3 and participate in the drive a bit more. Only thing that sucks (and i'm thinking its still the same for the new 6 speeds), no TC lock up in 1/2/3 gears.
Everyone complains about the transmission shifting too quickly and keeping the RPMs too low, which i totally agree with. I wish we had an ECT or tow button like the tacos, but you can always use S2 and S3 and participate in the drive a bit more. Only thing that sucks (and i'm thinking its still the same for the new 6 speeds), no TC lock up in 1/2/3 gears.
