I opted to get the V8 for the towing capacity and I'm glad I did but it sure seems to idle awfully high at startup. You either have to set there for 5 minutes till it idles down or ride the brakes pretty hard. Does everybody elses do this? Yeah and that is besides the idle increase for the air cond kicking on (what a pain in the butt). I also have this problem with the front drivers seat where when you shift your weight from the front to the back or back to front the seat pops like a pop can everytime. Also the rear passenger seat squeaks at the latch. I tried to latch it harder but with no luck. I really like the vehicle but for the money I shouldn't have four issues right off the bat to deal with. Anybody else have any of these problems?? OK I'm done venting!
05 V8 troubles
- Thread starter riva1
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sbryan
Member
I have notice the high idle. On my truck it starts off at about 1200-1400 RPM. Makes for a quick idle out of the driveway. Don't need to step on the gas - just idle away! I suspect it is the computer and emissions stuff that sets the idle high until things have warmed up. Not sure I'd call it a problem.
Yup, the seat thunks a little when I move around in it - a spring in the seat pan obviously is complaining. Guess I need to eat a little less!
No problem with the rear. Sorry.
Yup, the seat thunks a little when I move around in it - a spring in the seat pan obviously is complaining. Guess I need to eat a little less!
No problem with the rear. Sorry.
KMX3060
New member
riva1 said:
Yes, your idle will be high when cold starting.
Yes, the idle must increase when the A/C compressor comes on.
Take the seat to the dealer and get them to fix the popping.
The rear seat latch will require one or two wraps of electrical tape in the latch loop to quiet it.
Best vehicle I ever owned for any amount of money!
Ciao
p.s. There are threads dealing with all of these things if you will do a search.
greasefingers
New member
Typical idle speeds that I have measured with my scanner software:
Outside temp=25 C (77 F)
After 1 minute 1,087 rpms
After 3 minutes 891 rpms the engine temp=55 C (131 F)
After 5 minutes 781 rpms
After 10 minutes 707 rpms and the engine is now at operating temperature=86 C (187 F)
Outside temp=25 C (77 F)
After 1 minute 1,087 rpms
After 3 minutes 891 rpms the engine temp=55 C (131 F)
After 5 minutes 781 rpms
After 10 minutes 707 rpms and the engine is now at operating temperature=86 C (187 F)
I am having the same issues with my 2005 SR5 V8. Wish I would have noticed the idle on a test drive--I would not have bought it. Dealer told me this was normal. At a stop it fluctuates up and down between about 500 and 750 rpm's with A/C on. IMO this is extreme. Can't believe Toyota considers this OK.
sbryan
Member
greasefingers said:
Greasefingers,
Thanks for the data. If my tach is to be believed, at 25 F my idle starts off at around 1400 and drops to 1100 shortly after startup but then stays there for a while. One of these days I'm going to invest in the software to read my CANBUS data but I just haven't had the need yet.
Those who consider this a problem, why? Most cars I've owned idle high when cold and also kicked the idle up a couple of 100 RPM when the AC compressor kicked in. Seems like normal behavior. The 4R may be at the outer edge of normal but still within what I would call predictable. These "features" also seem more common on the newer cars - I assume because the computers are a lot more fiddly with emission controls and stuff. The old systems weren't precise enough to adjust things the way the computer systems do today.
yellowlabs
New member
I have owned 3 landcruisers, 2 4runners, 1 cressida, 3 celicas, 1 corolla, and 1 pickup NONE of which had a ridiculously fast idle like my current 2005 V8 4runner.
At startup you can motor down the highway at 20 to 30 mph with your foot off the gas pedal. After warm up still surges (with a/c off) and causes unintended acceleration.
Both purchasing and servicing dealer says can't do anything unless Toyota does a computer 'patch'
Expect it will become downright dangerous in the snow. Keeps forcing me to put it into neutral to avoid feeling of being 'pushed' as approach stoplights. Expect brakes will wear out prematurely.
Not what I bargained for when I bought "Toyorta quality"
Totally unacceptable in a modern vehicle.
To have no remedy unless Toyota feels like fixing the problem with a patch is insulting to everyone who made the mistake of buying one of these lemons. Never again!
At startup you can motor down the highway at 20 to 30 mph with your foot off the gas pedal. After warm up still surges (with a/c off) and causes unintended acceleration.
Both purchasing and servicing dealer says can't do anything unless Toyota does a computer 'patch'
Expect it will become downright dangerous in the snow. Keeps forcing me to put it into neutral to avoid feeling of being 'pushed' as approach stoplights. Expect brakes will wear out prematurely.
Not what I bargained for when I bought "Toyorta quality"
Totally unacceptable in a modern vehicle.
To have no remedy unless Toyota feels like fixing the problem with a patch is insulting to everyone who made the mistake of buying one of these lemons. Never again!
sharp4runr
New member
Wow, I guess I never knew what I was suffering! This V6 4Runner is the biggest engine I've ever had in a vehicle and I have no complaints. All my previous cars have been 4 Cylinders and the idle they when the AC is blasting was crazy! I had to slam on the gas on my 89 Corolla to get some speed. My 93 Celica GT had considerable sluggishness when the AC was rolling and I had to definitely give it more gas.
I can feel when the AC is on in the 4Runner but it never seems underpowered.
Unless you guys are just griping about IDLE speed? I mean, hell it has to warm up and I don't think it is idling at outrageous speed but I guess everyone has different expectations. Wow, if the only thing you guys can gripe about the idle speeds then I personally am happy that I'll be keeping my 4Runner. If you feel the need to return your vehicles just because of the idle RPM, then see you later and good luck to you on your next vehicle
I can feel when the AC is on in the 4Runner but it never seems underpowered.
Unless you guys are just griping about IDLE speed? I mean, hell it has to warm up and I don't think it is idling at outrageous speed but I guess everyone has different expectations. Wow, if the only thing you guys can gripe about the idle speeds then I personally am happy that I'll be keeping my 4Runner. If you feel the need to return your vehicles just because of the idle RPM, then see you later and good luck to you on your next vehicle
snap315
New member
yellowlabs said:
Wow.
I too have a 2005 V8 that idles high on startup.
However once I start driving it goes down to pretty much normal range. I've never felt "pushed" nor have I needed to ride my brakes.
The high idle you've described sounds right for a modern computer controlled vehicle upon startup but the effects while driving do not. I'd push you dealer to show you another 4Runner on his lot that behaves the same.
sbryan
Member
yellowlabs said:
My fast idle has me going down the road at about 10MPH and lasts only about 2-5 minutes before it is at normal idle from a cold morning start. Your experience sounds abnormal and you should ask the dealer to drive your car from a cold start and compare to another similar model to see if the cars act the same.
I have no surging and don't need to ride the brakes so my assumption is you have something out of the ordinary going on. Find a dealer willing to help, not BS you.
While my 4R exhibits characteristics which are different from prior vehicles I don't consider them faults, just different. I love my 4R so far. Great truck. Good luck with yours.
wow! I can't believe all the concern.
My previous car (BMW M3) also had a high idle at startup. I was told it was to heat up the cats to reduce emissions. That was the first car with a high idle. It only lasted less than 20 secs. My 4Runner (V8) also does the same thing, but it's less than 10 secs. I think this is absolutely normal. If it actually lasts more than 2-3 mins. then it may still be normal.
Also, for those of you guys who thinks that the idling speed of your 4Runner is too fast when you're in "D" remember this is a V8. Try idling in a V8 corvette. I bet you could hit 15 mph.
My previous car (BMW M3) also had a high idle at startup. I was told it was to heat up the cats to reduce emissions. That was the first car with a high idle. It only lasted less than 20 secs. My 4Runner (V8) also does the same thing, but it's less than 10 secs. I think this is absolutely normal. If it actually lasts more than 2-3 mins. then it may still be normal.
Also, for those of you guys who thinks that the idling speed of your 4Runner is too fast when you're in "D" remember this is a V8. Try idling in a V8 corvette. I bet you could hit 15 mph.
sbryan
Member
OK, because there has been much assertion about the horrible idle I decided it was time for DATA.
This morning, temp at about 56 degrees, I started the 4R and headed out of the driveway. For the first 15 seconds the idle kept the truck at about 10 MPH (1100-1200 RPM on the tach). By 35 seconds, no gas on my part, idle had dropped to 900 on the tach and I had to give the truck gas to keep moving.
Now in colder weather it seems to take a bit longer for the idle to drop but this seems to me to be completely normal and I have no problem at all with this idle.
I LOVE MY 4R
This morning, temp at about 56 degrees, I started the 4R and headed out of the driveway. For the first 15 seconds the idle kept the truck at about 10 MPH (1100-1200 RPM on the tach). By 35 seconds, no gas on my part, idle had dropped to 900 on the tach and I had to give the truck gas to keep moving.
Now in colder weather it seems to take a bit longer for the idle to drop but this seems to me to be completely normal and I have no problem at all with this idle.
I LOVE MY 4R
Like everyone has been saying, yes, it is normal for the V8 to idle high at startup. I've experienced rpm's as high as 1500 rpm during startup in 20 degree weather. This is due to the ECU running in Open Loop mode because the O2 sensors in the headers haven't gotten hot enough to provide an accurate reading to the ECU. The ECU holds the idle at a calculated rpm taking into account intake air temp and a few other factors, usually though the colder the ambient temp, the higher the idle.
High idle happens because this is the rpm at which the ECU "feels" confident that the engine will not stall in an open loop. Once the O2 sensors reach their normal operating temperature the idle starts to come down to normal and the ECU closes the loop and drives down the rpm to an efficient engine speed, low enough to conserve gas and reduce heat output but high enough to keep a smooth idle.
If you are like me and eager to go somewhere and don't want to wait for the truck to warm up to normal operating temp at idle then you are going to be driving while it is still open loop and at high idle. This is perfectly normal and fine for the truck (as long as you don't redline before the oil has a chance to heat up) but the truck is going to drive a little differently. My truck acts real pushy when its cold. I have to hold the brakes hard to keep it from moving (all that torque!!) and if I let the brake off and not touch the accelerator sometimes I can get going as fast as 20 mph on idle alone! This only lasts for a few minutes though until the idle comes down. One thing I do is put it in neutral when I'm stopped.
Just wanted to let everyone know that this is perfectly normal, and also, there isn't really anyway around it.
High idle happens because this is the rpm at which the ECU "feels" confident that the engine will not stall in an open loop. Once the O2 sensors reach their normal operating temperature the idle starts to come down to normal and the ECU closes the loop and drives down the rpm to an efficient engine speed, low enough to conserve gas and reduce heat output but high enough to keep a smooth idle.
If you are like me and eager to go somewhere and don't want to wait for the truck to warm up to normal operating temp at idle then you are going to be driving while it is still open loop and at high idle. This is perfectly normal and fine for the truck (as long as you don't redline before the oil has a chance to heat up) but the truck is going to drive a little differently. My truck acts real pushy when its cold. I have to hold the brakes hard to keep it from moving (all that torque!!) and if I let the brake off and not touch the accelerator sometimes I can get going as fast as 20 mph on idle alone! This only lasts for a few minutes though until the idle comes down. One thing I do is put it in neutral when I'm stopped.
Just wanted to let everyone know that this is perfectly normal, and also, there isn't really anyway around it.
sbryan said:OK, because there has been much assertion about the horrible idle I decided it was time for DATA.
This morning, temp at about 56 degrees, I started the 4R and headed out of the driveway. For the first 15 seconds the idle kept the truck at about 10 MPH (1100-1200 RPM on the tach). By 35 seconds, no gas on my part, idle had dropped to 900 on the tach and I had to give the truck gas to keep moving.
Now in colder weather it seems to take a bit longer for the idle to drop but this seems to me to be completely normal and I have no problem at all with this idle.
I LOVE MY 4R
Pretty much came results here. I really dont know what the fuss is. Engines have to warm up. Big engines will have the power to push you around at high idle. But if someone is saying that at idle their 4runner can push them at 35mph, something is either wrong or they are fibbing.
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RaysMD said:
I also own a 2002 Corvette auto. It does nothing like the 4runner does at idle. It idles at about 500 rpms and the a/c has little affect on the rpm's. It hardly moves when idling and I let my foot off the brake. That's why I thought the 4runner idle so excessive. This is our second toyota and probably our last. I will go back to Honda for our daily drivers. Warranty is not as good, but unlike my toyotas, I've never had to use it with our past Honda's. End of Rant.
If My 4r idled high for 35 seconds I wouldn't have a problem with that but it idles at 1400 for 2 minutes and then goes to 1100 for 2 minutes and after that I don't know. Who is going to set in their vehicle for 5 minutes before taking off. None of us! One minute to a minute and a half is plenty of time for the oil to get going good. Yesterday I got the first experience of driving on ice. That was fun!! Its going in wed to have several things looked at so I'll see then. This thread was meant for adults to talk about issues like adults not toyota loyalists who think toyota does nothing wrong.
sbryan
Member
riva1, I don't think anyone is implying Toyota can do no wrong. I know otherwise - my Tundra is going in to have the front end warranty work done.
But what some see as a problem others see as something to simply adjust to. At 20 degrees my 4R idles quite high until it starts to warm up but it really doesn't bother me all that much. I start the vehicle and drive off. By the time I get to the first stop sign I've traveled about two miles and the idle has usually dropped down to normal. If it hasn't and I feel like I'm being "pushed" more than I like I simply slide it into neutral until I can safely proceed.
My Subaru did much the same thing but I had a standard transmission and it was only a 4 cyl so it wasn't nearly as noticeable as the V8. When I started the Subie on a cold day the idle would stay way high until it warmed up a little. Whenever I depressed the clutch pedal the little 4 banger would pop right up to 1500 or so until it had warmed up. The Subie mechanic told me it was all emission control related. I see no reason to doubt him.
Good luck with your dealer. Hope they can sort it out for you.
But what some see as a problem others see as something to simply adjust to. At 20 degrees my 4R idles quite high until it starts to warm up but it really doesn't bother me all that much. I start the vehicle and drive off. By the time I get to the first stop sign I've traveled about two miles and the idle has usually dropped down to normal. If it hasn't and I feel like I'm being "pushed" more than I like I simply slide it into neutral until I can safely proceed.
My Subaru did much the same thing but I had a standard transmission and it was only a 4 cyl so it wasn't nearly as noticeable as the V8. When I started the Subie on a cold day the idle would stay way high until it warmed up a little. Whenever I depressed the clutch pedal the little 4 banger would pop right up to 1500 or so until it had warmed up. The Subie mechanic told me it was all emission control related. I see no reason to doubt him.
Good luck with your dealer. Hope they can sort it out for you.
