$10K KDSS Repair!!

[BlackWorksInc]

I do most of the repairs on my rig but for fun I recently called my local Toyota dealer to get an estimate for LABOR ONLY for the following:

- install brake pads - all around
- install rotors - all around
- install front CV axles

The total time it took me to replace the above items was 2 hours total and that is me working by myself on the ground with jack stands and manual wrenches.

Toyota said it was an 8 hour job and quoted me $1,200 for labor only.

I get that some things we have to take into the dealership but it's clear the dealers are straight up lying and ripping people off.

That seems about twice what it should have been quoted. I would probably have quoted about 4-6hrs, mainly because brakes are a set 1.5hrs even if we're swapping rotors, but there is technically a small amount of overlap with doing the CV Axles (though really, it's really just taking off the wheel...). I believe book time for just R&R an axle is something like 1.5~2hrs, depending on the non-warranty flat-rate book you're going by. So I would just do closer to 6hrs if the vehicle is crusty and rusted (also would include axle seal replacement of it's a higher mileage vehicle), but if it's relatively good condition I would just go with like 4 or 4.5hrs for everything.

That sounds more like an issue with Toyota and what they set as the labor hours in the book.


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Not really, Toyota's flat rate manual is for warranty work and it pays on average garbage. Most shops are either doing a straight 1.5 * [Warranty Time] or using a company like Mitchell or Identifix to set labor times off their flat rate books.

You guys are kind of misunderstanding how flat rate works, which is understandable.

 

[LACA11]

Hi all, Our local Toyota dealer quoted me $10,000 to fix the KDSS system on my 2010 4R Trail, with 220K miles. The KDSS light comes on now and then, and they said it was very rusty (salty upper Midwest roads) and leaking slightly from the unit. The $10K is to replace the unit and all four lines. Does this sound right to you? Many thanks for sharing your insights!!

Unfortunately, the price seems to be in the ballpark. My assumption is that Toyota inherited the system from Lexus, so the parts are absurdly expensive, and the hydraulic fluid bleed/recharge/whatever makes it a labor intensive repair.

My 2015 Trail is at a dealer in Long Beach CA to replace a leaking rear KDSS cylinder. $2,450

I don't have the paperwork yet, but this is the breakdown he gave me over the phone:

Cylinder: $1,200
Hydraulic fluid: $150
Labor: $975
Tax: $137


The service sales reps I've spoken with clearly have no idea what KDSS is, so I'm about to find out if one of their mechanics can get the job done.

 

[gomiami]

Toyota inherited the system from Lexus...

That's interesting. I get that (technically) Lexus has an independent design/engineering team but I can't imagine they get to do whatever the hell they want without Toyota's blessing and/or approval.

 

[LACA11]

KDSS Repair Update:

The Toyota dealer apparently replaced the leaking cylinder, but after a full day of attempting to use their "manual" tools, they were unable to bleed / repressurize / whatever the KDSS system. Seems pretty clear at this point that they've never done a KDSS repair before.

The service rep said they've ordered the "machine" to bleed / repressurize / whatever the hydraulic system. It's going to take 2-3 days for them to receive it, so they've given me a rental.

The cautionary tales about KDSS repairs and dealers not knowing how to repair KDSS all seem accurate so far.

I assume they'll figure it out eventually, but I'm their first guinea pig. Pretty sure they've far exceeded the time allocated for their $975 labor charge.

 

[T4R_Canuck]

KDSS Repair Update:

The Toyota dealer apparently replaced the leaking cylinder, but after a full day of attempting to use their "manual" tools, they were unable to bleed / repressurize / whatever the KDSS system. Seems pretty clear at this point that they've never done a KDSS repair before.

The service rep said they've ordered the "machine" to bleed / repressurize / whatever the hydraulic system. It's going to take 2-3 days for them to receive it, so they've given me a rental.

The cautionary tales about KDSS repairs and dealers not knowing how to repair KDSS all seem accurate so far.

I assume they'll figure it out eventually, but I'm their first guinea pig. Pretty sure they've far exceeded the time allocated for their $975 labor charge.

Well just make sure they don't exceed the quoted price for labor just because they didn't bother to borrow a SST for the KDSS system prior to working on your vehicle. There is no way to "manually" pressurize the system without the assistance of some form of hydraulic pump. I've read the procedure on TIS and pressurizing the system seems pretty straight forward as long as all the components still work properly. Any qualified tech should be able to follow the procedure laid out in TIS. Once they depressurized the system, replacing the component would of been simple, so pressurizing the system with the proper tools should be the "hardest" part.

 

[therhythmic]

Spoke about KDSS wear and replacement at my local dealer in California. He said that once it fails it can’t really be fixed but has to be replaced. Also, KDSS has finite life, so 220k miles is a good run. Dealer Said they just did it and it was about $4k, but could be more because it’s very labor intensive (about $2k in parts and $2k in labor). A viable alternative he suggested is asking the dealer to remove KDSS. It’s cheaper and gives you more aftermarket options.

Any idea on how much it'd be to remove the KDSS altogether?
I assume the just go back to the standard sway bars?

Appreciate the feedback.
Looking at buying a '13 Trail, but looks like KDSS light is on dash, meaning, an issue. Wanting to know how to engage the dealer on it - and what my expectations should be, even if it works now, the car has 149k miles - it may fail in future and I want to plan for that.

J

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Now if you brake in a turn, or brake descending a hill on an angle, the “dive” will be asymmetrical and then KDSS will have something to do.


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Who cares? Sounds like driver issues.

 

[RobS10]

Any idea on how much it'd be to remove the KDSS altogether?
I assume the just go back to the standard sway bars?

Appreciate the feedback.
Looking at buying a '13 Trail, but looks like KDSS light is on dash, meaning, an issue. Wanting to know how to engage the dealer on it - and what my expectations should be, even if it works now, the car has 149k miles - it may fail in future and I want to plan for that.

J

If you're buying it from the Dealer, it should be up to them to fix any warning lights, i.e. fix the reason the KDSS system is causing it.
Is there corrosion around the collector?

 

[bluebullet]

If you're buying it from the Dealer, it should be up to them to fix any warning lights, i.e. fix the reason the KDSS system is causing it.
Is there corrosion around the collector?

I had the same problem with my 2011 Trail though the repair estimate was only $3K. I traded it in for a 2020 ORP w/kdss along with a 10 year $0 deductible from a dealer in Michigan (lower cost). The salesman bought my 2011 and had it fixed probably for less.

The first time the mule kicks you, it's the mule's fault...

 

[CutthroatSlam]

I had the same problem with my 2011 Trail though the repair estimate was only $3K. I traded it in for a 2020 ORP w/kdss along with a 10 year $0 deductible from a dealer in Michigan (lower cost). The salesman bought my 2011 and had it fixed probably for less.

The first time the mule kicks you, it's the mule's fault...

Salesman probably just deleted the KDSS and converted it to a stock sway bar.

 

[rpoL98]

Any idea on how much it'd be to remove the KDSS altogether?
I assume the just go back to the standard sway bars?

Appreciate the feedback.
Looking at buying a '13 Trail, but looks like KDSS light is on dash, meaning, an issue. Wanting to know how to engage the dealer on it - and what my expectations should be, even if it works now, the car has 149k miles - it may fail in future and I want to plan for that.

J

wondering about this, the "remove the KDSS", replace with standard sway bars.

if you remove the valves (pump?) and leave the electrical connector taped up, not connected to anything, will it give you permanent idiot light on the instrument cluster?

yeah, i know, old thread.