12 dead in Washington, D.C.

[BrianSD_42]

This wasn't directed at you @BrianSD_42. I wanted to point out that just a couple hours after this happened Obama went on TV and, in so many words, revived the gun-control debate.

I agree with you. You won't hear any defense of Obama from me.

We had a few hard core anti gun members but they have since left the forum or went quiet.

Despite this shooting I won't be supporting new assault rifle bans because those bans don't lower crime.


I don't think the discussion dishonors the dead, it's just discussion BUT it did seem too soon for my tastes hence my first post.

 

[BrianSD_42]

In my opinion the open carry discussion is not a gun rights discussion because guns have been banned from certain towns and buildings since the countries founding.

The position that any citizen should be able to carry a gun openly into a courthouse, a police station, the capitol building or a military base is something that I disagree with to say the least.

 

[bofa]

In my opinion the open carry discussion is not a gun rights discussion because guns have been banned from certain towns and buildings since the countries founding.

The position that any citizen should be able to carry a gun openly into a courthouse, a police station, the capitol building or a military base is something that I disagree with to say the least.

I'm fine with that so long as such places provide adequate screening, professional armed security, and give licensed citizens a secure area to check or lock their weapons upon entry/exit if they choose do to so.

 

[KidVermicious]

The position that any citizen should be able to carry a gun openly into a courthouse, a police station, the capitol building or a military base is something that I disagree with to say the least.

I think we're mostly on the same page. The difference I see between most of those locations and the place where this latest shooting took place is, courthouses and capitol buildings and such are secure. There are stern men with automatic weapons and lots of training on standby just waiting for some screwball with an agenda to make a ruckus.

That's not the case on university or corporate campuses, that's not the case in movie theaters and shopping malls and all these other places that want to declare themselves "gun free" like it somehow makes them safer, and I dare say that certainly wasn't the case at this naval yard. An unsecure facility with a no-weapons policy is asking for tragedy when some nut bar goes postal.

 

[nevada]

Military bases are prime targets. Weapons are prohibited, but people are rarely searched. I go onto the base here often as a visiting civilian and they barely check anything. I could easily be strapped with 2 or 3 pistols and enough ammo to kill 30-40 people and go right in. Of course I would never do that.

what a completely, and utterly assinine policy.

SV_dude you do realize that this occured on a military base right? Firearms are prohibited.

Do you think that firearms should be allowed to be carried by civilians when working on military property? Please come out and just say so if that is what you think.

yes, they should.

In my opinion the open carry discussion is not a gun rights discussion because guns have been banned from certain towns and buildings since the countries founding.

The position that any citizen should be able to carry a gun openly into a courthouse, a police station, the capitol building or a military base is something that I disagree with to say the least.

i disagree complete.
if they are legal, law abiding citizens, WHY NOT?



the real tragedy here is that this could have, and should have been avoided.

 

[Thai]

This is a forum. This is a place to discuss, debate, and share ideas.

If anyone thinks that this is a place to mourn, then well, you're in the wrong place!

If you want to mourn or support, then feel free to visit these sites and show the money:

National Military Family Association: Donate

Support Our Troops | Military.com

Just to name a few...hell, if you're confused, donate to American Red Cross!

This incident is a tragedy for sure. Is it preventable? I don't know enough. But, yeah, this recent rash of shootings does point to a totally fu*cked up society's morals...kinda coincided with Obama 2008.

 

[LandCruiser]

That's not the case on university or corporate campuses, that's not the case in movie theaters and shopping malls and all these other places that want to declare themselves "gun free" like it somehow makes them safer, and I dare say that certainly wasn't the case at this naval yard. An unsecure facility with a no-weapons policy is asking for tragedy when some nut bar goes postal.

I don't get the entire "gun free zone" policy you just described.

How the HELL is a gun free zone going to discourage a whackjob from shooting up said gun free zone? This asinine policy just sets up a mental block for me, I just can't envision how this could work in any version of reality we're forced to operate in.

I have CCW'd for over 15 years. I honestly feel naked without a gun and can't really get my head around the idea that someone has deemed an area to be "gun free" and therefore now feels safe because law abiding citizens can't be armed. If anything I do my best to avoid gun free zones.

 

[BrianSD_42]

An unsecure facility with a no-weapons policy is asking for tragedy when some nut bar goes postal.

Just to add context ....

I don't know about the Naval Yard in MD but here in San Diego we have a large naval yard and I have worked there before when our ship was in the "docks"

It is true that the naval yard is not the most secure place (for a variety of reasons) but they do require ID checks to get in and firearms are prohibited.

I believe Naval Base Police also have jurisdiction on the premises.


THE REAL DANGER in a shipyard is not a random shooter it is the dangerous as hell construction taking place. Its a shipyard! Anyone who has ever been in one will know exactly what I mean.

I have seen pieces of a ship larger than a house that were accidentally dropped from cranes before. These places are really dangerous. :croc:

 

[asimdada]

I work just minutes away from the Naval yard in Washington DC. Really sad for the loss of innocent lives as always. I love DC to death and love working here in downtown area.

 

[LINY4Runner]

I hate events like this and I truly feel for the families and friends involved...but anyone who tries to say that those of us that are pro-gun are using this to jump on an agenda just clearly isn't with it. We are the first to cringe when stuff like this happens because we know of the months of personal and constitutional attacks that follow. We know the feeling of people looking at you like "your kind" are responsible. Yeah we get defensive, we have to.
After Newtown, my sister wouldnt speak to me for two weeks simply because I own the same make and model rifle that was used (she's a guidance counselor and a mother of a 3 and 5 year old). Luckily being a guidance counselor she eventually found the right questions to ask- not who or what, but WHY.

Just imagine if YOUR driver's licence was being threatened because someone in another state that you have nothing to do with was guilty of DWI.

 

[MyHigh]

The truth of the matter is, oBUMa will use this latest tradgety to push once again for stricter gun control.
When in actuality this could have and should have been avoided, but once again our legal system failed to recognize a troubled past. Because of their incompetence, 12 innocent lives have been lost. May I ask, what the hell was a firearm convicted, history of mental illness two time loser, doing getting security Clearance?

Now don't get me wrong, but before yesterday I would not have called him a loser. I think that every man and woman that serve our GREAT Nation should be treated with respect and honor. I would love to buy each of them a beer if only I could afford to show them my gratitude. As more information is starting to come out it sounds like yet another soul lost to PTSD.

My heart goes out to the families and friends of those lost, and to the family of the loser, who now have to forever live in the shadow of their monsteras son/brother/cousin ect....

I for one am a proud CCL holder, and take great responsibality in knowing that god forbid one day I may be asked to kill. But yes I will gladly take the life of anyone who wishes to impose their sorrows on others by taking random innocent lives. My only hope is, that by sacrificing my life I might save others.

 

[KCcarguy]

I hate events like this and I truly feel for the families and friends involved...but anyone who tries to say that those of us that are pro-gun are using this to jump on an agenda just clearly isn't with it. We are the first to cringe when stuff like this happens because we know of the months of personal and constitutional attacks that follow. We know the feeling of people looking at you like "your kind" are responsible. Yeah we get defensive, we have to.
After Newtown, my sister wouldnt speak to me for two weeks simply because I own the same make and model rifle that was used (she's a guidance counselor and a mother of a 3 and 5 year old). Luckily being a guidance counselor she eventually found the right questions to ask- not who or what, but WHY.

Just imagine if YOUR driver's licence was being threatened because someone in another state that you have nothing to do with was guilty of DWI.

I know exactly what you mean. The vast majority of gun owners are good people that would never think of harming a innocent person. I think gun owners are being stereotyped and demonized based on the actions of an extremely small minority.

 

[Kurtis]

I am a gun owner and I am pro-gun. I don't like to grouped with the ass clowns that think more guns will fix everything. That's just silliness. Maybe it's time to try another approach to stop mass homicide. Hence my original post about violence behavior prediction. I'm not asking for a thread to mourn. I just thought we were a bit too quick to start the gun debate. I just didn't think that was the caliber of people we were here. You could be a little bit more considerate. I don't think I am asking for much here.

 

[bofa]

The title starts out reasonable... and then all the bullshit rolls in

Federal gun laws didn't block Navy Yard shooter

And this is why gun rights advocates cringe...

What the 1986 Firearms Owners' Protection Act did was it made it more convenient for gun buyers," said Kristen Rand, the legislative director at the Violence Policy Center. "That's the road we've been on for a while: The convenience of gun owner always seems to trump the right of victims not to be shot.

...because, you know, the fact that he wasn't prosecuted for two prior gun offenses and his mental illness went unreported to federal authorities had nothing to do with this.

 

[nevada]

The title starts out reasonable... and then all the bullshit rolls in

Federal gun laws didn't block Navy Yard shooter

And this is why gun rights advocates cringe...



...because, you know, the fact that he wasn't prosecuted for two prior gun offenses and his mental illness went unreported to federal authorities had nothing to do with this.

yep, and as with the other mass shootings, he was on heavy meds.

also, it was reported he was using an AR15 shotgun.

 

[KCcarguy]

I am a gun owner and I am pro-gun. I don't like to grouped with the ass clowns that think more guns will fix everything. That's just silliness. Maybe it's time to try another approach to stop mass homicide. Hence my original post about violence behavior prediction. I'm not asking for a thread to mourn. I just thought we were a bit too quick to start the gun debate. I just didn't think that was the caliber of people we were here. You could be a little bit more considerate. I don't think I am asking for much here.

All great points [MENTION=62779]Kurtis[/MENTION], but the President himself restarted the gun debate not long after the shooting. We're just following suit. It's tacky, but it's the political environment we live in these days.

 

[TCMach]

All great points [MENTION=62779]Kurtis[/MENTION], but the President himself restarted the gun debate not long after the shooting. We're just following suit. It's tacky, but it's the political environment we live in these days.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I hate this style of thinking. Just because somebody else does it doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level. If you don't agree with how things are (what I assume you meant by tacky) be strong enough to act how you think you should.

That being said this thread was going to be a gun debate, intended or not. So debate on. It's nice to see actual discussion vs where I grew up. Small town Oklahoma if you don't like guns, you are ostracized no discussion at all. I'm with [MENTION=62779]Kurtis[/MENTION] though. This event (not thread) shouldn't be about guns at all, it should be about the lives lost and how to prevent it from happening again gun control/legalization aside. Guns don't kill people, people do.

 

[ndcent]

"Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people."

 

[KCcarguy]

I'm not trying to pick on you but I hate this style of thinking. Just because somebody else does it doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level. If you don't agree with how things are (what I assume you meant by tacky) be strong enough to act how you think you should.

That being said this thread was going to be a gun debate, intended or not. So debate on. It's nice to see actual discussion vs where I grew up. Small town Oklahoma if you don't like guns, you are ostracized no discussion at all. I'm with [MENTION=62779]Kurtis[/MENTION] though. This event (not thread) shouldn't be about guns at all, it should be about the lives lost and how to prevent it from happening again gun control/legalization aside. Guns don't kill people, people do.

You're absolutely right, in theory. The problem is if you don't "stoop-down" to their level and speak out, there will only be one voice/ viewpoint being heard.

As far as growing up in Oklahoma (I did as well), I'd say that if you're anti-gun (as opposed to just not into guns), you are treated about the same as a gun-enthusiast would be treated in many hard-core blue states.....how many times have I been called "Billy Bob" by some guy from the east or west coast because I'm a gun owner?! I guess it's just regional/ cultural differences. Not saying it's right...just the way it is.

And you're especially right on finding solutions outside the gun-control debate. The more that comes out about this guy, the more obvious it is that there were numerous break-downs in the system.

 

[ndcent]

People need to understand that their feelings don't trump our constitutional rights as Americans; and it's only made worse by the media outlets who keep the stupid troughs full 24/7 with their dramatic nonsense and viewer count fueled fiction.

And note I didn't say liberal news media because they most certainly don't hold down the fort with moronic tripe either.

Facts 2016!