1997 Sketchy SleepyDad build

[phattyduck]

even though it has good compression why not just be 100% safe and do the head gaskets?

An unopened Toyota engine will basically always be more reliable than an opened one. "Just" doing headgaskets isn't smart thing to do currently good running (Toyota) engine. Compared the the work he is currently doing, pulling a motor and doing the gaskets at a later date is a piece of cake.

-Charlie

 

[mesooohoppy]

An unopened Toyota engine will basically always be more reliable than an opened one. "Just" doing headgaskets isn't smart thing to do currently good running (Toyota) engine. Compared the the work he is currently doing, pulling a motor and doing the gaskets at a later date is a piece of cake.

-Charlie

how so? i find it hard to believe that a motor with new OEM headgaskets and good engine work (among other things) from a reputable builder is 'less reliable' than one that has anywhere from 100-200k on it. i dont know how long these head gaskets last for, but i guarantee you its not forever.

i didnt put it in my original post, but it will always be easier to do stuff like this with the powerplant out. why pull a motor twice if you dont have to?

based on how dirty his is, id end up replacing everything, just for the sake of piece of mind.

 

[phattyduck]

how so? i find it hard to believe that a motor with new OEM headgaskets and good engine work (among other things) from a reputable builder is 'less reliable' than one that has anywhere from 100-200k on it. i dont know how long these head gaskets last for, but i guarantee you its not forever.

i didnt put it in my original post, but it will always be easier to do stuff like this with the powerplant out. why pull a motor twice if you dont have to?

based on how dirty his is, id end up replacing everything, just for the sake of piece of mind.

Replacing seals, etc is a good idea. Headgaskets? Not so much. Why do them a few hundred thousand miles before they are likely to be needed?

The original engine was assembled in basically a clean room, by people who did it all day long on the exact same engine. No contaminants in the wrong places, everything clearanced torqued to spec in a controlled production environment. There is no way you can get the same thing out of even the best engine builder after the fact.

I'd expect the headgaskets on a well taken care of (regular coolant changes, mostly) 5vz to last longer than other wear parts of the engine (rings, valve seats, bearings, or similar). I have more faith in my nearly 300k mile 5vz than many new production cars...

-Charlie

 

[weekendclimber]

No disrespect meant to [MENTION=168172]sleepydad[/MENTION], so I hope he takes this in jest, but his track record on engine rebuilds is I think 0/1 currently :fencing:

 

[sleepydad]

even though it has good compression why not just be 100% safe and do the head gaskets?

I agree with the duck. Keep the internals as clean as possible and if everything is fine on the inside leave it alone. Seal it all up so nothing is leaking and drive on. Pulling theses engines out is really not hard at all. Mechanical this engine is in perfect shape so I see no need to do head work on it.

An unopened Toyota engine will basically always be more reliable than an opened one. "Just" doing headgaskets isn't smart thing to do currently good running (Toyota) engine. Compared the the work he is currently doing, pulling a motor and doing the gaskets at a later date is a piece of cake.

-Charlie

No disrespect meant to [MENTION=168172]sleepydad[/MENTION], so I hope he takes this in jest, but his track record on engine rebuilds is I think 0/1 currently :fencing:

That engine is still sitting in my garage to remind me of how not to work on engines. Sometimes I just sit beside it and drink a beer, jus me and the engine reminisce about the beautiful 500 miles it went.

The salvage engine in my other rig with bad compression and the supercharger runs like a top. Engine building is a serious skill and I’m not going to pretend I’m anything but a rank amateur. It’s the main reason I’m sticking with the clean it up, seal it up and do as little possible to get solid again.

 

[T4R2014]

Agree on leaving the HG. That said, we are going to run out of low mile 5VZs one day. Better start learning how to replace head gaskets correctly.

 

[mesooohoppy]

The original engine was assembled in basically a clean room, by people who did it all day long on the exact same engine. No contaminants in the wrong places, everything clearanced torqued to spec in a controlled production environment. There is no way you can get the same thing out of even the best engine builder after the fact.

I'd expect the headgaskets on a well taken care of (regular coolant changes, mostly) 5vz to last longer than other wear parts of the engine (rings, valve seats, bearings, or similar). I have more faith in my nearly 300k mile 5vz than many new production cars...

-Charlie

i agree to disagree. im not talking about the OP rebuilding it himself. if you see what i posted in post 102, im talking about a reputable builder doing it.

reputable shops have no problem decking the mating surfaces flat, checking bore, compression post decking, etc. they also assemble in clean rooms. what toyota is doing isnt rocket science. its not like these motors are assembled like the VR38DETT that is found in the R35 GTR (only 4 people in the world are allowed to assemble these from the factory: Meet the four horsemen behind Nissan's GT-R engine | Autoblog), or even better a F1 powerplant where you have to go into a clean room in a full body condom.

i know a very reputable builder in my area who builds everything. the stuff he finds from the factory is shocking (poor casting, main caps not ground straight, etc.). of course he has to fix it all and explain to the customer that a brand new powerplant isnt up to his standards.

my original point is it seems sort of odd that OP is doing a complete frame off resto, only to not do HGs on a motor that looks like it needs it.

that being said, im still loving this build!!

 

[phattyduck]

my original point is it seems sort of odd that OP is doing a complete frame off resto, only to not do HGs on a motor that looks like it needs it.

that being said, im still loving this build!!

That's exactly it - HE is doing it - not a respected engine builder. It is an awesome frame-off restoration, not a motor build... And pulling the motor in 100k or 200k miles and 10 years from now will be easy.

-Charlie

 

[Serge627]

Love this thread, good work SD, Im looking forward to the updates

 

[sleepydad]

it's always one more thing

i agree to disagree. im not talking about the OP rebuilding it himself. if you see what i posted in post 102, im talking about a reputable builder doing it.

my original point is it seems sort of odd that OP is doing a complete frame off resto, only to not do HGs on a motor that looks like it needs it.

that being said, im still loving this build!!

That's exactly it - HE is doing it - not a respected engine builder. It is an awesome frame-off restoration, not a motor build... And pulling the motor in 100k or 200k miles and 10 years from now will be easy.

-Charlie

I would love to have somebody make me a cherry engine, not part of the budget. I have to draw some lines or I will never put it back on the road, this is a daily driver, winter snow beast.

this engine does not need HG work. when it needs it, it will get it. has good compression, does not burn oil, it just needs new seals so it does not leak. I'm usually a pro-active maintenance guy but with engines as long as they run well, let them run.

after 3x coats of easy off oven cleaner. light rinse with hose and the air compressor spray nozzle to clean water and junk out of the bolt holes it looks good and now I can crack it open without having gunk falling into it. sure it has a bunch of oxidation on the aluminum parts but I'm good with this.

<a href="https://imgur.com/rr0usYF"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/rr0usYFl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>


broke the last bolt on the transfer case... but I have 2x spare transmission laying around so... I will pull off the end casing and replace it with a good one... I could try to get that bolt out of there but fock it I have a spare.
<a href="https://imgur.com/ICrSijc"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/ICrSijcl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

also yanked the kick down cable when I was pulling the trans so now I have to drop the pan and replace that... always one more thing.
<a href="https://imgur.com/DEc3UrA"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/DEc3UrAl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

I welded on some clips to hold the mustang style banjo hose ends so they are solid now.
<a href="https://imgur.com/kJnyV6P"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/kJnyV6Pl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

also ran new ABS sensors because my old ones both broke on the way out of the old setup. but the back end is ready for the hard lines so I will need to cut them and flare. looking pretty decent... still need a couple of brackets to hold the cables but this routing is going to work nice.

<a href="https://imgur.com/knU7HJ0"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/knU7HJ0l.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

I also blasted and rattle canned a set of 00 engine mounts vs the older style 97 mounts. 00 style of the left, 97 style on the right. I like the older mounts so I think I will go with them. not sure if there was a design flaw with the older mounts but they seem beefier to me?

<a href="https://imgur.com/ih4oJsd"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/ih4oJsdl.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[sleepydad]

fuel tank ready for action

I picked up a new spectrum tank and new sending unit assembly, vent, and filler tube, new pump and all internals with that focking little clip that holds the fuel pump in. so pretty much the only thing I swapped over was the sending unit and the brackets to hold the lines and the filter tube vent assembly.

I will have to run a new send line all the way up because my old ones are rusted beyond repair. I think I can re-use the return line and the evap lines.

<a href="https://imgur.com/ZHC7qF5"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/ZHC7qF5l.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[TonyB66]

Can't speak for others, but I find those photos golden. The build too of course. Thanks for sharing with us.

 

[phattyduck]

Can't speak for others, but I find those photos golden. The build too of course. Thanks for sharing with us.

You can speak for me on that issue! I love these photos. Its like the 'stock' version of Dirtco's thread.

-Charlie

 

[sleepydad]

Can't speak for others, but I find those photos golden. The build too of course. Thanks for sharing with us.

You can speak for me on that issue! I love these photos. Its like the 'stock' version of Dirtco's thread.

-Charlie

Thanks I will keep sharing. sometimes I look back and think... what idiot does all this work on a crappy old 1997 T4R? oh wait that is me.

I have all the engine stuff ordered and it should be here by the end of the week but then my wife decided we should go up north and visit so... no progress until next week for sure.

I priced out all new Toyota body mounts and I was like OMG I think I need to consider other options. @ least $500 for all new body mounts so I need to look at salvaging some parts.

 

[phattyduck]

I priced out all new Toyota body mounts and I was like OMG I think I need to consider other options. @ least $500 for all new body mounts so I need to look at salvaging some parts.

How about Energy Suspension Polys?

-Charlie

 

[weekendclimber]

Thanks I will keep sharing. sometimes I look back and think... what idiot does all this work on a crappy old 1997 T4R? oh wait that is me.

I have all the engine stuff ordered and it should be here by the end of the week but then my wife decided we should go up north and visit so... no progress until next week for sure.

I priced out all new Toyota body mounts and I was like OMG I think I need to consider other options. @ least $500 for all new body mounts so I need to look at salvaging some parts.

Doesn't Energy Suspension have a body mount kit? I don't think it's anywhere near $500, more in the $150 range. And they're poly bushings, so there's that too.

 

[sleepydad]

How about Energy Suspension Polys?

-Charlie

Doesn't Energy Suspension have a body mount kit? I don't think it's anywhere near $500, more in the $150 range. And they're poly bushings, so there's that too.

yes I was digging around but I need everything. the bolts/nuts look like WWII encrusted barnacles that were abandoned in the south pacific on an island. beyond sandblasting help for sure.

so I have to get everything and the toyota bolts/nuts are pretty expensive as well. on the cheap side I think I added up about $350 to get everything with an energy kit. febest also sells stuff and daystar but my experience with febest as not been positive.

https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/installation_instructions/8.4111.pdf

general rule of thumb, everything is more expensive that you think until you add up the entire cost of doing it.

 

[weekendclimber]

yes I was digging around but I need everything. the bolts/nuts look like WWII encrusted barnacles that were abandoned in the south pacific on an island. beyond sandblasting help for sure.

so I have to get everything and the toyota bolts/nuts are pretty expensive as well. on the cheap side I think I added up about $350 to get everything with an energy kit. febest also sells stuff and daystar but my experience with febest as not been positive.

https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/installation_instructions/8.4111.pdf

general rule of thumb, everything is more expensive that you think until you add up the entire cost of doing it.

New bolts came with Fat Pat's body lifts. Maybe you could ping him and see if he could source some. Hell, I probably still have my originals in a box somewhere now that I think about it if it's just the fasteners you need :guitar2:

 

[sleepydad]

New bolts came with Fat Pat's body lifts. Maybe you could ping him and see if he could source some. Hell, I probably still have my originals in a box somewhere now that I think about it if it's just the fasteners you need :guitar2:

the energy kit is $211 (prob can find cheaper with a little searching)

Toyota 5221735100 BOLT, BODY MOUNTING 4.25$ @6 = 25.50$
Toyota 5221735030 BOLT, BODY MOUNTING 9.09$ @2 = 18.18$
Toyota 9418401001 NUT0 .90$ @10= 9.00$
Toyota 52217-35040 BOLT, BODY MOUNTING 15.99 @2 = $31.98
Toyota 9164281025 BOLT, W/WASHER 0.66$ @8 = 5.28$

+$30 shipping

$ 119.94

= $360 total for all new mounts and hardware

I suppose I could try and measure what the bolts and find some decent nuts and bolts. the only trouble with body mount bolts is they will probably be longer than I need and may not work with stock mounts?

if you can find them and your ok with the trouble sure I would love a decent set of stock bolts. I can arrange a paypal charitable gift donation.

poly body mounts would give me that squeek that keeps giving.

 

[STI_MECE]

Get with death cougar for the stock body mount bolts. He will hook you up!

I just did this in my 4runner, I went with the energy suspension body mount poly bushings and used the bolts supplied by death cougar.

If you don't want the OEM bolts then I have a link somewhere in my build thread where someone has a speed square next to each bolt.

Don't forget about the rag joint bolts if that matters.....it's an M8x25x1.25