2.8L mini Duramax swap in 11 Trail?
- Thread starter Longbowkid
- Start date
BlackWorksInc
New member
It's a nice V8 Diesel too, had the pleasure to drive one! After I spent a ****ing long time putting a new turbo and water pump in it...
Sparky 86809
New member
Interesting idea.
I have zero experience with engine swaps like you mentioned but I did stay at A Holiday Inn last night.
I just sold a 2007 GMC Sierra 2500HD with the 6.6L Duramax and during that ownership I read a lot on the diesel forums about engine swaps the older mechanical injected Cummins were relatively easy the newer common rail engines were a whole nuther ball game. Getting the engine to physically fit and mate to trans etc was the easy part the electronics and all the supporting systems are a big headache. There was one build I followed installing a new 6.7L Cummins into a 2010 era F350, the Ford 6.4L ate a rocker shaft, while keeping all the required Ford electronics the biggest headache was getting the 6.7 ECU to talk to the Ford electronics mainly the transmission module. The guy did it but I think he had a strong background in industrial electronics.
I have zero experience with engine swaps like you mentioned but I did stay at A Holiday Inn last night.
I just sold a 2007 GMC Sierra 2500HD with the 6.6L Duramax and during that ownership I read a lot on the diesel forums about engine swaps the older mechanical injected Cummins were relatively easy the newer common rail engines were a whole nuther ball game. Getting the engine to physically fit and mate to trans etc was the easy part the electronics and all the supporting systems are a big headache. There was one build I followed installing a new 6.7L Cummins into a 2010 era F350, the Ford 6.4L ate a rocker shaft, while keeping all the required Ford electronics the biggest headache was getting the 6.7 ECU to talk to the Ford electronics mainly the transmission module. The guy did it but I think he had a strong background in industrial electronics.
I think it's a sweet idea. If you want it bad enough I'm sure there's someone out there that can figure it out. I'm sure you're a smart enough person to know it's not going to be cheap either, that being said. If you're smart enough to realize that and still want it then I'm sure you have the money to make it happen. I say go for it. Just today my coworker and I were talking about how sweet it would be to put the Ford 3.5 ecoboost motor in one.
wcjeep
Member
Cummins now sells a new generation 4cyl diesel with stand alone computer. It's significantly lighter than the old Cummins 4bt bread truck engine. It's also electronic injection with more power and better emissions than the old mechanical injection.
It was designed to be Swapped into anything. Cost will be a limiting factor. I read an article somewhere that mentioned Ford sells one of their eco boost as a stand alone option. Still expensive. Previous mentioned Chevy V8 swap is probably the cheapest option with the most powerful. More power would probably jeopardize Toyota reliability. Toyota Sequoia has a factory V8.
It was designed to be Swapped into anything. Cost will be a limiting factor. I read an article somewhere that mentioned Ford sells one of their eco boost as a stand alone option. Still expensive. Previous mentioned Chevy V8 swap is probably the cheapest option with the most powerful. More power would probably jeopardize Toyota reliability. Toyota Sequoia has a factory V8.
wfo9
New member
Modern Toyota = really bad choice for engine swap. If you want to do that.. stick with an 80 series LC... lots of diesel swaps on those.
If you love the 2.8 duramax, just get a a new zr2. They should be monsters off-road right off the showroom floor... Great suspension. fully locked... I think I would still opt for the gas motor, if I was getting one. But I can see why people would choose the diesel... It's a super efficient little motor.. .just not enough HP for me.
If you love the 2.8 duramax, just get a a new zr2. They should be monsters off-road right off the showroom floor... Great suspension. fully locked... I think I would still opt for the gas motor, if I was getting one. But I can see why people would choose the diesel... It's a super efficient little motor.. .just not enough HP for me.
philsey
New member
With that clusterf***, you'll BE the rescue mission.
Seriously man, other than being cool for your SAR peeps, what do you think a diesel motor will do for you that you can't do now?
Why did you even buy a 4R anyway?
$15K???? Hah! I doubt there's ANY money that'll get that right. Repeating: you'll BE the rescue mission, and your SAR buddies will laugh at you for being such a noodle.
:flypig:
Antman
Elite Member
In all seriousness it really is a stupid idea IMO.
Taking an incredibly reliable vehicle and essentially making it a rolling unreliability experiment in order to perform tasks that require the ultimate in reliability.
It's like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer over and over and complaining about how bad it hurts.
Taking an incredibly reliable vehicle and essentially making it a rolling unreliability experiment in order to perform tasks that require the ultimate in reliability.
It's like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer over and over and complaining about how bad it hurts.
Jetboy
New member
If you do want a diesel - you want one that bolts into a Prado 150. 1GD-FTV. Numbers are nearly identical with the baby duramax. Toyota quality. And it should be a bolt in swap for the hard parts. The software is probably pretty easy (relatively compared to the d-max) to swap if you have a complete wire harness from both and the entire ECU set. What you'd want is called a half cut. They cut the vehicle a-pillar and floorboard behind the shift assembly and include everything from the rear of the transfer case forward. I'd plan on $25k to get one landed at your shop. Then go from there.
For me - I'd sell the 4runner. Buy a very badly rolled GX460. Import a Prado 150. Swap vins.... you get the idea. You'll probably be into the project about the same amount and have a complete ready to rock diesel without all the conversion hassle. AND it'll be factory reliable.
Keep in mind that you'll be going from around 19mpg to 26mpg and an engine with the same power as a rav4. Is it worth it?
IMO an engine swap is begging to be done - but I wouldn't want a small diesel. I'd want either the Toyota 4.5L v8 or a cummins v8 from a Titan. Cummins has a pretty good crate engine program. However it's going to be a nightmare to keep most of the 4runner electronics working. I am considering a Cummins R2.8 for my FJ40 - but it's 3500lbs and I'm trying to hack enough out of it to get down more like 2,500lbs when it goes under the knife.
If you go with the Prado option - you get these fun buttons. I have no idea what the one on the lower left does. Maybe rolling coal button?
For me - I'd sell the 4runner. Buy a very badly rolled GX460. Import a Prado 150. Swap vins.... you get the idea. You'll probably be into the project about the same amount and have a complete ready to rock diesel without all the conversion hassle. AND it'll be factory reliable.
Keep in mind that you'll be going from around 19mpg to 26mpg and an engine with the same power as a rav4. Is it worth it?
IMO an engine swap is begging to be done - but I wouldn't want a small diesel. I'd want either the Toyota 4.5L v8 or a cummins v8 from a Titan. Cummins has a pretty good crate engine program. However it's going to be a nightmare to keep most of the 4runner electronics working. I am considering a Cummins R2.8 for my FJ40 - but it's 3500lbs and I'm trying to hack enough out of it to get down more like 2,500lbs when it goes under the knife.
If you go with the Prado option - you get these fun buttons. I have no idea what the one on the lower left does. Maybe rolling coal button?
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LawnDart
Senior Member
Truck Fart? Air Biscuit?
Trashcanman
New member
I'm disappointed. I came into this thread expecting you to say "Yep, I've already done it! Not for beginners." and have a full write up with pics and detailed instructions. C'mon man!
LawnDart
Senior Member
Just my .02 cents, but Walt (TAVLLC) and I mapped out a diesel swap on my truck with the "at the time unannounced" Cummins 2.8. The 2.8 made more sense because we wouldn't have to completely change out the entire drive train to make it work.
I think we were looking at like 30K+ to make that happen, and the reality of it is that both he and I decided it wasn't worth it. I mean, if you feel like that kind of money is no issue, then rock on with your bad self. But there are some major issues besides the cost and time.
Someone mentioned the toyota diesel, and the numbers on that engine suuuuuuck. You also have a major issue, in that if you break a part getting a new Toyota diesel engine component could take weeks or months to source. Whereas a Cummins component is literally over the counter.
The Cummins option is great for vintage FJs where engines have died and are harder to source, and you don't want to go with the LS swap route, which admittedly is kind of awesome if you've seen Tim/Sackwears FJ45 conversion. It just sounds awesome.
So besides cost, the thing is, I'd rather just have another platform. If we're talking 25-35K to do a diesel conversion, I'd rather just buy a ZR2 or even sell my 4Runner and buy a raptor and bomb over whoops with a 450hp fullsize truck.
This next statement is sure to ruffle some feathers: The other big hold up is that I just think dropping a new engine in the 4runner is like pearls before swine. Lets be absolutely honest with ourselves, the 5th gen will never be a "classic." Almost all cars produced after the turn of the century, even in the 90's onwards, are all forgettable modern design, with the exception of a rare few. I think a clean 3rd Gen 4Runner might be on the bubble, but the 4th gen is completely forgettable. Sorry they are...and so is the 5th gen. It's a cool looking vehicle, but just like light bars and whatnot, the design winds will change and it'll get lost to the sands of time. It's kind of a reason people love the FJ40, because it's classic despite kind of being a turd to drive. And I say that as an OWNER of an FJ40 that's currently sitting in a warehouse (in parts) in the bay area. I just don't have the budget to rebuild and modernize it in the style and level of my desires.
So to me effectively putting the entire cost of an engine swap into a platform I don't think is going to become a classic just becomes a case of "I just want to do it and burn money." To which I'd say, "Cool story, bro!"
I dumped a stupid amount of money into my truck, but at some point you have decide if the juice is totally worth the squeeze or if another platform will give you more of what you want without attacking the fundamental strengths of the platform, which in this case is reliability.
I think we were looking at like 30K+ to make that happen, and the reality of it is that both he and I decided it wasn't worth it. I mean, if you feel like that kind of money is no issue, then rock on with your bad self. But there are some major issues besides the cost and time.
Someone mentioned the toyota diesel, and the numbers on that engine suuuuuuck. You also have a major issue, in that if you break a part getting a new Toyota diesel engine component could take weeks or months to source. Whereas a Cummins component is literally over the counter.
The Cummins option is great for vintage FJs where engines have died and are harder to source, and you don't want to go with the LS swap route, which admittedly is kind of awesome if you've seen Tim/Sackwears FJ45 conversion. It just sounds awesome.
So besides cost, the thing is, I'd rather just have another platform. If we're talking 25-35K to do a diesel conversion, I'd rather just buy a ZR2 or even sell my 4Runner and buy a raptor and bomb over whoops with a 450hp fullsize truck.
This next statement is sure to ruffle some feathers: The other big hold up is that I just think dropping a new engine in the 4runner is like pearls before swine. Lets be absolutely honest with ourselves, the 5th gen will never be a "classic." Almost all cars produced after the turn of the century, even in the 90's onwards, are all forgettable modern design, with the exception of a rare few. I think a clean 3rd Gen 4Runner might be on the bubble, but the 4th gen is completely forgettable. Sorry they are...and so is the 5th gen. It's a cool looking vehicle, but just like light bars and whatnot, the design winds will change and it'll get lost to the sands of time. It's kind of a reason people love the FJ40, because it's classic despite kind of being a turd to drive. And I say that as an OWNER of an FJ40 that's currently sitting in a warehouse (in parts) in the bay area. I just don't have the budget to rebuild and modernize it in the style and level of my desires.
So to me effectively putting the entire cost of an engine swap into a platform I don't think is going to become a classic just becomes a case of "I just want to do it and burn money." To which I'd say, "Cool story, bro!"
I dumped a stupid amount of money into my truck, but at some point you have decide if the juice is totally worth the squeeze or if another platform will give you more of what you want without attacking the fundamental strengths of the platform, which in this case is reliability.
DarkSideGTI
New member
Motor swaps on newer cars are getting more and more difficult. The motor/ECU needs to talk to the rest of the car, there is the cluster, the ignition immobilizer, etc. Not to mention bolting the motor up to the Toyota transmission, which would require some sort of adapter plate. It would be very difficult to get everything working properly, but not impossible.
007Tacoma
New member
Diesel Toys
(Full Disclosure: the owner of Diesel Toys is one of my closest friends.)
I can highly recommend Diesel Toys for their OEM look diesel engines in Toyota trucks. One day (when I can afford it) I plan on putting the D4D engine in my 4Runner. I have driven 2 Tacomas and 1 FJ Cruiser with this engine that Diesel Toys swapped in. I was definitely impressed.
The thing is, if you aren't in the United States, why not just buy a diesel powered vehicle right off the lot? It would be much cheaper than any kind of engine swap and much faster.
There's this: http://dieseltoys.com/4runner-diesel
Or seeing as you are not in USA, buy diesel version locally if available or import one.
.
(Full Disclosure: the owner of Diesel Toys is one of my closest friends.)
I can highly recommend Diesel Toys for their OEM look diesel engines in Toyota trucks. One day (when I can afford it) I plan on putting the D4D engine in my 4Runner. I have driven 2 Tacomas and 1 FJ Cruiser with this engine that Diesel Toys swapped in. I was definitely impressed.
The thing is, if you aren't in the United States, why not just buy a diesel powered vehicle right off the lot? It would be much cheaper than any kind of engine swap and much faster.
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Longbowkid
New member
Thanks for all the reply's gents.
so the consensus is too much hassle and too much money. I like the Toy V8 idea. we had a 2003 with the V8, we really liked that one except for the 4wd system. BTW I am in the US 007Tacoma. Maybe Toyota will eventually bring an oilburner to the states. in the meantime I will be spending my time adding better tires and recovery equipment to my Yota.
so the consensus is too much hassle and too much money. I like the Toy V8 idea. we had a 2003 with the V8, we really liked that one except for the 4wd system. BTW I am in the US 007Tacoma. Maybe Toyota will eventually bring an oilburner to the states. in the meantime I will be spending my time adding better tires and recovery equipment to my Yota.
I'm pretty sure that's the exhaust brake.
007Tacoma
New member
Sorry, I thought I saw somewhere that you were overseas... I must be confusing threads.
Probability of Toyota bringing an oil burner to the USA after the Volkswagen Dieselgate fiasco: 100% Not Going To Happen.
