2005 transmission fluid/filter change

[patriotsgolf2003]

So I went by my local Toyota dealer at lunch today and asked about transmission fluid and a filter. The parts manager told me that the '05 has a screen for the filter and the WS fluid. I asked the price of both and he told me not to bother with servicing the transmission fluid since its considered "lifetime" fluid. He did tell me that if I changed it the transmission had to be a certain temp to before I could drain, fill and refill the transmission. How much truth is there to what he said and what has experience taught you guys that have done it before. Any tips or tricks I should now before attempting it on my own.

 

[CXS]

Wow, a dealer turning business away? Unheard of especially since Toyota says we should every 90K miles or so. I think it's a good idea myself and did change it at 100K for peace of mind. It's an expensive part to replace.

 

[oljedi11950]

Tell them you'd like it done , their tech has the machine/computer to hook it up to get it to proper temps ! Just driving it there will , then he'll tell you it has to cool down so they can get it to temp . It's cool do it ,expect 300$ plus

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So I went by my local Toyota dealer at lunch today and asked about transmission fluid and a filter. The parts manager told me that the '05 has a screen for the filter and the WS fluid. I asked the price of both and he told me not to bother with servicing the transmission fluid since its considered "lifetime" fluid. He did tell me that if I changed it the transmission had to be a certain temp to before I could drain, fill and refill the transmission. How much truth is there to what he said and what has experience taught you guys that have done it before. Any tips or tricks I should now before attempting it on my own.

The Parts Manager is either inexperienced, incompetent, does not want to be bothered by you, and/or any combination of the above.

Modern Toyota Transmissions have a nice metal mesh screen that is very well made, this is true and they rarely seem to need to be cleaned. WS fluid is listed as "Lifetime Fluid" by Toyota, but most dealerships, technicians, and anyone who has a small amount of understanding of automotive repair knows this to be a crock of ****. The "Lifetime Fluid" apparently is not lifetime if you do "severe" driving and then needs to be replaced at 60k followed by 30k intervals. BUT, normal driving usually shows a good life of about 80~100k normally from what our dealership has seen.

I would just do a very good drain and fill and/or flush service and run about 8-12qts through the system and you'll be good for another 80~100k

 

[hades]

My dealership wouldn't touch mine either.

Toyota told them to stop changing the fluid so they complied.

 

[patriotsgolf2003]

Call this a dumb question but how do you get 10-12 qts in the transmission. The only way I've seen so far is through the fill plug on the side of the transmission itself

 

[oljedi11950]

BWInc is one of our Toy. mech he knows ! They used almost 14 on mine to move the old out , they tried to tell me the same thing & I just said do it please no such thing as WS

 

[patriotsgolf2003]

if possible can you walk me through the process of the flush/fill procedure. All Ive ever owned have been manual transmissions until I owned the 4runner. Im thinking that the 100k mark is probably a good time to change the transmission fluid.

 

[blackfc3s]

if possible can you walk me through the process of the flush/fill procedure. All Ive ever owned have been manual transmissions until I owned the 4runner. Im thinking that the 100k mark is probably a good time to change the transmission fluid.

DIY: Full Flush for Automatic Transmission - Tacoma World Forums

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Call this a dumb question but how do you get 10-12 qts in the transmission. The only way I've seen so far is through the fill plug on the side of the transmission itself

You basically do about 3-4 flushes using 3-4qts at a time. Its a slow process but when the fluid draining out starts looking like the fresh fluid its good to go. There's a few good guides on how to do this on the website.
[MENTION=99384]hades[/MENTION], I haven't had Toyota tell us to stop doing this... yet. But when a factory tech tries to tell me that, I'll ask them to show me chemical analysis of various mileages, various conditions, and most importantly why almost ALL their service literature is contradictory to their "Lifetime Fluid" statement.

 

[DC runner]

I've not heard of any transmission's going out due to fluid. It appears to actually be "lifetime" fluid. I had my toyota dealer perform the fluid exchange and the old fluid looked in very good condition and did not smell burnt.

Mine was done in March of last year, so around 1.5 years ago. I have not seen anything regarding a change in policy to no longer perform the fluid exchange, but it might be possible. It could be that improper fluid change procedures were resulting in more transmission damage than not doing anything.

Honestly, that has to be the only reason. Toyota isn't in the biz of breaking stuff. I had mine changed, but I didn't tell 1 diff between before and after on the transmission. Shifted just as smooth before. It could be that we are imposing old school ideologies to the newer fluid, mentally assuming it performs like older type.

That said. If you want it done, I bet you can find a dealer to do it. As for a fluid exchange and call around to various toyota dealers.

Should take around 12-13 qts and cost somewhere around 250'ish. That is what it cost me and my invoice showed around 13 qts totally used. I am not anti nor pro on this one.

 

[sport_yota2004]

Just did it to my 2004 Sport. I did it cool at temperature. I've never heard of these transmissions going out I just changed it because with 140,000 miles I think it would be good to change. Be sure to clean everything and clean off the old Seal on the pan. Get a new one too and clean out the pan. Put in the fluid they told you and you may see a big change ( I did at least)

 

[patriotsgolf2003]

I haven't heard of any of the newer transmissions failing due to worn fluid and I dont want mine to be the first but the fact that they claim a fluid is considered "lifetime" sets uneasy with me. Also if it truly is a "lifetime" fluid why would your driving conditions depend on how the quickly the fluid breaks down. Shouldn't it last for a lifetime.

 

[DC runner]

No. Driving style always impacts everything. An engineer can design a fluid, say this fluid, which is really just complex hydaluic fluid designed to withstand pressure and to lubricate. Same kind of fluid that has been in use for about 80 years. What changes is how we can make it. Synthtic bonds built around specific qualities.

I can, for example, design a fluid that will last for all intents and purposes the life of a car or 300k miles as long as it stays around X degrees. Heat breaks bonds. This is why butter melts or plastics burn. You are breaking the bonds.

So, if you own a 4runner with WS fluid and 99.9 percent of your driving is your typical car, lite towing driving, then the fluid will have never gone beyond X degree. Since movement doesn't change the bonds, ONLY TEMP, you can theoretically MOVE the fluid through the transmission for EVER. (NOT FOREVER, not MILLIONS of YEARS, but you get my point, A long ass time).

This new transmission design limits temps and controls this. Therefore, the fluid is really a lifetime fluid.

However. Drive outside of the norm. Overheat the trans by towing a house up a hill or driving in 120 degree weather in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm and you will move the fluid beyond X degree. At this point, you start wearing the oil. Just so.

Anyway. Driving style impacts HEAT and this is really what we are talking about. For 99.9% of the pop, it probably really is "lifetime" fluid. They pu the check you style to cover their ass so some 16 year old idiot doesn't blow it up and get dad to sue.

Make sense?

 

[CXS]

Very nice, easy to understand, thanks! Do we know at what temperature our transmissions start to break down the fluid? I wheel pretty hard and pull a trailer quite a bit. I have a ScanGauge to monitor temps but really don't know when I'm pushing it too hard.

I've seen the temp chart posted on every thread about this but don't know if our trucks tranny temps fall in that chart with our "lifetime" fluid.

 

[DC runner]

I saw it somewhere to. If someone could post it up? Perhaps Blackworks????

I want to say it wasn't until around 220 or so. My transmission has never exceeded 195 and usually in the 170's - 180's. I track mine.

It isn't the use that harms it. It is the overloading the "cooling" ability. Wheeling, by itself, isn't any more or less harmful to fluid unless you are revving hi, in say LOW gear whereby producing a lot more internal heat.

Movement does create heat. The friction from movement across the gears, and the gears and the tranny is the heat producer; but the fluid is a unique viscosity flexible design to reduce friction at higher temps. The whole issue with out hard it is to change the fluid on our own is exactly because the fluid adapts at different temps, to reduce continued temp climb.

Make sense? When you add the viscosity and bonds with the cooling system built into it, it is able to keep the fluid quite controlled for like 99.9% of the time.

I tow a large sailboat. 23 foot, total about 6k pounds up some hills to my marina and my trans doesn't even notice it. My temp for my tranny stays WELL below 200, usually around 175-190.

 

[patriotsgolf2003]

No. Driving style always impacts everything. An engineer can design a fluid, say this fluid, which is really just complex hydaluic fluid designed to withstand pressure and to lubricate. Same kind of fluid that has been in use for about 80 years. What changes is how we can make it. Synthtic bonds built around specific qualities.

I can, for example, design a fluid that will last for all intents and purposes the life of a car or 300k miles as long as it stays around X degrees. Heat breaks bonds. This is why butter melts or plastics burn. You are breaking the bonds.

So, if you own a 4runner with WS fluid and 99.9 percent of your driving is your typical car, lite towing driving, then the fluid will have never gone beyond X degree. Since movement doesn't change the bonds, ONLY TEMP, you can theoretically MOVE the fluid through the transmission for EVER. (NOT FOREVER, not MILLIONS of YEARS, but you get my point, A long ass time).

This new transmission design limits temps and controls this. Therefore, the fluid is really a lifetime fluid.

However. Drive outside of the norm. Overheat the trans by towing a house up a hill or driving in 120 degree weather in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm and you will move the fluid beyond X degree. At this point, you start wearing the oil. Just so.

Anyway. Driving style impacts HEAT and this is really what we are talking about. For 99.9% of the pop, it probably really is "lifetime" fluid. They pu the check you style to cover their ass so some 16 year old idiot doesn't blow it up and get dad to sue.

Make sense?

It makes perfect sense. I haven't really thought of it in a scientific fashion but it really is quite simple. Im still going to change mine this weekend just for peace of mind.

 

[CXS]

I saw it somewhere to. If someone could post it up? Perhaps Blackworks????

I want to say it wasn't until around 220 or so. My transmission has never exceeded 195 and usually in the 170's - 180's. I track mine.

It isn't the use that harms it. It is the overloading the "cooling" ability. Wheeling, by itself, isn't any more or less harmful to fluid unless you are revving hi, in say LOW gear whereby producing a lot more heat.

Mine has exceeded 220 on days where it's very hot - 100°+ and towing my travel trailer, never while wheeling. I do have the V8 cooler but it still happens which concerns me. Wondering if I should add a larger cooler or something to keep it cooler.

 

[WXman]

No. Driving style always impacts everything. An engineer can design a fluid, say this fluid, which is really just complex hydaluic fluid designed to withstand pressure and to lubricate. Same kind of fluid that has been in use for about 80 years. What changes is how we can make it. Synthtic bonds built around specific qualities.

I can, for example, design a fluid that will last for all intents and purposes the life of a car or 300k miles as long as it stays around X degrees. Heat breaks bonds. This is why butter melts or plastics burn. You are breaking the bonds.

So, if you own a 4runner with WS fluid and 99.9 percent of your driving is your typical car, lite towing driving, then the fluid will have never gone beyond X degree. Since movement doesn't change the bonds, ONLY TEMP, you can theoretically MOVE the fluid through the transmission for EVER. (NOT FOREVER, not MILLIONS of YEARS, but you get my point, A long ass time).

This new transmission design limits temps and controls this. Therefore, the fluid is really a lifetime fluid.

However. Drive outside of the norm. Overheat the trans by towing a house up a hill or driving in 120 degree weather in 3rd gear at 3500 rpm and you will move the fluid beyond X degree. At this point, you start wearing the oil. Just so.

Anyway. Driving style impacts HEAT and this is really what we are talking about. For 99.9% of the pop, it probably really is "lifetime" fluid. They pu the check you style to cover their ass so some 16 year old idiot doesn't blow it up and get dad to sue.

Make sense?

Well, here's the issue. Heat isn't the only variable. You also have particulate matter. I drained my WS fluid at 104K and it was NASTY. Why? Because over time, metal parts wear and particulates get into the fluid. If you leave them in the fluid, it starts to wear surfaces even faster.

This is why you change your engine oil every 5K...and lots of people change a few times in the first 5K of an engines life. Transmissions have moving parts and wear items too. You simply cannot leave WS or any other fluid in the trans for the life of the vehicle. Some might get lucky and survive 200K on the same fluid...but it's risky.

 

[cmoore50]

Very nice explanation. I have 171, 000 and counting on the odometer. I have towed a trailer maybe twice and have never gone wheelin'. I have driven it fairly normal since I've had it. So thanks for putting my mind at ease.