dwulffusa
New member
Hey guys
I thought this was newsworthy.
I have been lurking for quite a while, but in summary still loving my 2005, how it drives, how it looks, trouble free for almost 7yrs and all that. Car has been in central NC all its life since June 2005 where it served as the daily and racked up many highway miles and has been serviced exclusively at one dealer incl all oil changes and all scheduled maintenance. For the last few years it has been a 2nd vehicle, sometimes used as a daily driver, more so in winter and otherwise just the weekend carryall and trips to the dog park. For the last 6months since moving up to NJ it has been garaged and only used as a daily when it looks like rain or snow.
About 2 weeks ago and at 118,500miles I felt a slight shudder from the trans as it hesitated before shifting from 3rd to 4th at 25-30mph under light load. Here is my post amongst others on the same issue.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/72998-rumble-strip-transmission-issue-7.html
I decided to take it in for the 120,000mile service and get this seen to. My first thought was that I would insist on a trans fluid change, which the dealer declined to perform at 90,000miles. It would get all the usual 120K service items and I also wanted all 3 diff fluids changed (rear is typically incl in 120K service). I was prepared to accept that the trans fluid change may not fix the issue and would go further and replace the torque converter if necessary. I like the car..
I dropped it off Morristown Toyota in NJ last Tuesday and they called in the afternoon to say that the tech had noted a right front brake caliper was hanging up and it needed to be replaced. They were certain this was the shuddering I was feeling and that they had seen many of this generation with caliper issues at over 100K. I was troubled because I thought I would have known if something was amiss with the brakes and would know the difference between a trans issue and a brake issue, and the rotors and pads were replaced with OEM at around 110,000miles. Nonethless, I told them to replace it if they were certain it was stuffed.
This was going to take at least another day to get the part in, so they put me in a rental car (no charge), which happened to be a 2012 4Runner SR5 with Nav package and 250miles on the clock..
Come Friday morning I pick up the car and take a drive with the tech, trans shudder still there, he acknowledges it and I request the fluid change at my own cost and accept that this may not fix the issue.I specify that a want a full flush/exchange, not a drain and fill.
Days go by..I put 250miles on the loaner trying to like it..Tuesday morning I inquire on the status and they say the car is ready (and I am so ready to get my car back). I pick it up and expecting a bill of around $1,300 (it adds up fast) they tell me that they are not charging for the fluid change.
To those who aren't familiar, it took 2hrs of labor and 7quarts of fluid to do (so about $300)(update: apparently a full change would have been 12quarts so I plan to follow up on what gives), has to be done at operating temperature and its kind of a PITA. (I have left out some back and forth discussion of how Toyota does not recommend doing this - world standard lifetime fill and etc., but I never requested any financial assistance or discounts). See pic of the oil below, its not Coke.
I drive home and immediately feel and improvement in shift quality, about 20% smoother shifts and more responsive to down shifts - smoother than the 2012 I have been driving for a week (granted it is brand new). I am grinning at having my car back, the same only a little better in every way, a little more grunt, steering better, braking better, shifting better. I have tried to replicate the hesitation multiple times tonight and cannot do it. It seems perfect.
I heart my 4th gen.
Shout out to Toyota of Morristown and specifically the service adviser Susan Dimeo.
This was my first visit to this dealer (other than an express oil change) and I fealt like was given the red carpet treatment and am completely satisfied with everything. I assumed that a call to the regional rep they were going to make about the trans resulted in the comp of the trans service given my long dealer service history and the condition of the car, but she confirmed they they were absorbing the cost. Doesn't make business sense to me, but OK. (update: seems like there is 'goodwill' money for trans issues if you are at a highmileage and have full service etc. and this shuddering starts despite the insistence on lifetime fill).
The just under $1,000 service may seem steep, but for a car of this age that a enjoy this much, wasn't a hard pill to swallow at all.
Not to start up another 4th vs 5th gen comparison, as I have posted numerous more in depth comparisons already, but using the car for a week further confirmed that I dislike this new SR5 (specifically SR5-so I don't get lash back about better suspension spec in Trail and Limited) in just about every way, here's the most frustrating things:
Laughable body control - it tips, rocks, rolls and lurches continuously. It nose dives on braking, sways on cornering and even just pulling into the garage produces back and forth rocking. It was unsettling and not confidence inspiring. I had to adjust my driving style. I don't when switching from my car to my 4Runner. The 4th gen, with XReas anyway, stays relatively flat, has good brake feedback, a heavier more direct steering the as a package just allows you to drive with more verve and not feeling like you are throwing a truck around).
Low levels of traction, I had a couple of hard stops and the front tires broke traction very easily and ABS kicked it. Brake peddle is very mushy.
Engine noise - a tinny, gritty unrefined metallic thrash that makes you wonder if there is any sound deadening at all in the firewall.
Tinny, light weight feel of the doors, doorhandles, hood and hard plastics on the door caps, plastic steering wheel and shift lever that is Big Jim toolbox worthy.
Mirror adjustment moved from ahead of the window switches to a dark area to the left of the steering column and not illuminated.
Limited stash space for phone, wallet etc. The awkward placement of the 4WD lever where a 2nd cup holder would be and narrower cup holder openings (wallet does not fit in them). The 4th gen had 2 large cup holders upfront (with removable separator), a small cubby in front of that, a small compartment to the left of the gear lever (with a cover) more stash space in front of the armrest etc.. It was an annoyance every time I got in the car.
That's before mention of the equipment decontenting. Lets not go there.
What did I like? The multimedia and backup camera, I need to hurry up and pick a new system for mine and be done with it. The 5th gen is a better highway cruiser - quieter (less road and wind noise) and smoother (I don't like the handling trade off though) and the sport seat option was much more supportive than the 4th gen. I also noticed they have been slowly making some improvements over the first 2010s - a 2 tone horn, windshield shaded around the rear view mirror, visors have mirror covers and pull out extensions, rear seat armrest has a more sophisticated looking cupholder contraption vs the simple 2 holes the 2010s had. But that's it.
I thought this was newsworthy.
I have been lurking for quite a while, but in summary still loving my 2005, how it drives, how it looks, trouble free for almost 7yrs and all that. Car has been in central NC all its life since June 2005 where it served as the daily and racked up many highway miles and has been serviced exclusively at one dealer incl all oil changes and all scheduled maintenance. For the last few years it has been a 2nd vehicle, sometimes used as a daily driver, more so in winter and otherwise just the weekend carryall and trips to the dog park. For the last 6months since moving up to NJ it has been garaged and only used as a daily when it looks like rain or snow.
About 2 weeks ago and at 118,500miles I felt a slight shudder from the trans as it hesitated before shifting from 3rd to 4th at 25-30mph under light load. Here is my post amongst others on the same issue.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/72998-rumble-strip-transmission-issue-7.html
I decided to take it in for the 120,000mile service and get this seen to. My first thought was that I would insist on a trans fluid change, which the dealer declined to perform at 90,000miles. It would get all the usual 120K service items and I also wanted all 3 diff fluids changed (rear is typically incl in 120K service). I was prepared to accept that the trans fluid change may not fix the issue and would go further and replace the torque converter if necessary. I like the car..
I dropped it off Morristown Toyota in NJ last Tuesday and they called in the afternoon to say that the tech had noted a right front brake caliper was hanging up and it needed to be replaced. They were certain this was the shuddering I was feeling and that they had seen many of this generation with caliper issues at over 100K. I was troubled because I thought I would have known if something was amiss with the brakes and would know the difference between a trans issue and a brake issue, and the rotors and pads were replaced with OEM at around 110,000miles. Nonethless, I told them to replace it if they were certain it was stuffed.
This was going to take at least another day to get the part in, so they put me in a rental car (no charge), which happened to be a 2012 4Runner SR5 with Nav package and 250miles on the clock..
Come Friday morning I pick up the car and take a drive with the tech, trans shudder still there, he acknowledges it and I request the fluid change at my own cost and accept that this may not fix the issue.I specify that a want a full flush/exchange, not a drain and fill.
Days go by..I put 250miles on the loaner trying to like it..Tuesday morning I inquire on the status and they say the car is ready (and I am so ready to get my car back). I pick it up and expecting a bill of around $1,300 (it adds up fast) they tell me that they are not charging for the fluid change.
To those who aren't familiar, it took 2hrs of labor and 7quarts of fluid to do (so about $300)(update: apparently a full change would have been 12quarts so I plan to follow up on what gives), has to be done at operating temperature and its kind of a PITA. (I have left out some back and forth discussion of how Toyota does not recommend doing this - world standard lifetime fill and etc., but I never requested any financial assistance or discounts). See pic of the oil below, its not Coke.
I drive home and immediately feel and improvement in shift quality, about 20% smoother shifts and more responsive to down shifts - smoother than the 2012 I have been driving for a week (granted it is brand new). I am grinning at having my car back, the same only a little better in every way, a little more grunt, steering better, braking better, shifting better. I have tried to replicate the hesitation multiple times tonight and cannot do it. It seems perfect.
I heart my 4th gen.
Shout out to Toyota of Morristown and specifically the service adviser Susan Dimeo.
This was my first visit to this dealer (other than an express oil change) and I fealt like was given the red carpet treatment and am completely satisfied with everything. I assumed that a call to the regional rep they were going to make about the trans resulted in the comp of the trans service given my long dealer service history and the condition of the car, but she confirmed they they were absorbing the cost. Doesn't make business sense to me, but OK. (update: seems like there is 'goodwill' money for trans issues if you are at a highmileage and have full service etc. and this shuddering starts despite the insistence on lifetime fill).
The just under $1,000 service may seem steep, but for a car of this age that a enjoy this much, wasn't a hard pill to swallow at all.
Not to start up another 4th vs 5th gen comparison, as I have posted numerous more in depth comparisons already, but using the car for a week further confirmed that I dislike this new SR5 (specifically SR5-so I don't get lash back about better suspension spec in Trail and Limited) in just about every way, here's the most frustrating things:
Laughable body control - it tips, rocks, rolls and lurches continuously. It nose dives on braking, sways on cornering and even just pulling into the garage produces back and forth rocking. It was unsettling and not confidence inspiring. I had to adjust my driving style. I don't when switching from my car to my 4Runner. The 4th gen, with XReas anyway, stays relatively flat, has good brake feedback, a heavier more direct steering the as a package just allows you to drive with more verve and not feeling like you are throwing a truck around).
Low levels of traction, I had a couple of hard stops and the front tires broke traction very easily and ABS kicked it. Brake peddle is very mushy.
Engine noise - a tinny, gritty unrefined metallic thrash that makes you wonder if there is any sound deadening at all in the firewall.
Tinny, light weight feel of the doors, doorhandles, hood and hard plastics on the door caps, plastic steering wheel and shift lever that is Big Jim toolbox worthy.
Mirror adjustment moved from ahead of the window switches to a dark area to the left of the steering column and not illuminated.
Limited stash space for phone, wallet etc. The awkward placement of the 4WD lever where a 2nd cup holder would be and narrower cup holder openings (wallet does not fit in them). The 4th gen had 2 large cup holders upfront (with removable separator), a small cubby in front of that, a small compartment to the left of the gear lever (with a cover) more stash space in front of the armrest etc.. It was an annoyance every time I got in the car.
That's before mention of the equipment decontenting. Lets not go there.
What did I like? The multimedia and backup camera, I need to hurry up and pick a new system for mine and be done with it. The 5th gen is a better highway cruiser - quieter (less road and wind noise) and smoother (I don't like the handling trade off though) and the sport seat option was much more supportive than the 4th gen. I also noticed they have been slowly making some improvements over the first 2010s - a 2 tone horn, windshield shaded around the rear view mirror, visors have mirror covers and pull out extensions, rear seat armrest has a more sophisticated looking cupholder contraption vs the simple 2 holes the 2010s had. But that's it.
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