2005 V8, Timing Belt change + Cam Pos Sens Changed, Crank/No Start

[AuSeeker]

I hear the Fuel Pump running just fine when I turn it on, it ran the longest the very first time after sitting and doesn't run unless I crank it.

I haven't checked for spark, but with brand new plugs I'm not worried, as the old plugs looked perfect as well.

My main concern now is why I don't get my CEL on the initial turning on of the vehicle. This is my biggest red flag, as it leads me to believe that my ECU isn't actuating.

Just because you installed new spark plugs doesn't mean you're getting spark during cranking, you need to confirm that the coils are firing to know if you're getting spark to the plugs/cylinders.

It cranks strong, the battery is fine. The voltage was 11.9v. There's no RPM showing on the Tachometer when cranking.

My biggest concern is that the CEL is not coming on during the initial check when turning the car's power on.

Just a thought, have you tried disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU(?), also some say once you have disconnected the battery (both cables in this case) touching the 2 cables together also needs to be done to truly reset the ECU.

 

[xavier847]

Turns out I pinched the shit out of the wires going pass the water pump and fan pulley. Got them free and they were completely separated.

Used some wire couplers and a fine amount of electrical tape topped off with friction tape.

Just got it all back together and it fired right up.

Strange though, the CEL didn't come on before cranking and still throws no codes even while running.

 

[Terminator03]

Turns out I pinched the shit out of the wires going pass the water pump and fan pulley. Got them free and they were completely separated.

Used some wire couplers and a fine amount of electrical tape topped off with friction tape.

Just got it all back together and it fired right up.

Strange though, the CEL didn't come on before cranking and still throws no codes even while running.

Thanks for updating! I’m planning a TB change in the near future as well, so this thread was of great interest to see what caused the issue!

 

[xavier847]

Thanks for updating! I’m planning a TB change in the near future as well, so this thread was of great interest to see what caused the issue!

Ya, no problem. I ordered my set of Thorley Headers in the group buy. Did you get your set from Jason/Burtman Industries?

With the battery being disconnected for the better part of the last week I have to reset all the electrical controls, like auto windows and roof, and somehow the rear windshield wiper.

EDIT: What do you think of the Sprint Booster? Did the 2004 even have an electronic throttle?

 

[xavier847]

Also, thanks to everyone that responded for trying to help me. I really appreciate the having people to bounce ideas around with.

 

[Terminator03]

Ya, no problem. I ordered my set of Thorley Headers in the group buy. Did you get your set from Jason/Burtman Industries?

With the battery being disconnected for the better part of the last week I have to reset all the electrical controls, like auto windows and roof, and somehow the rear windshield wiper.

EDIT: What do you think of the Sprint Booster? Did the 2004 even have an electronic throttle?

I was very fortunate that the Thorley headers were already installed when I bought it a couple of years back. The dealer I bought it from had no knowledge of who installed them, or when, but I was just happy they were done so I didn’t have the cracked manifold issue!

With regard to the Sprint Booster, yes, the ‘04 has the drive by wire setup. I absolutely love the Sprint Booster. It completely transformed the feel of my truck and even though it doesn’t add power, it feels way faster and more responsive. If it broke, I wouldn’t hesitate to replace it immediately because I would hate driving the truck now that I’m used it!

 

[jbtvt]

Good update, was wondering what caused this. For future, your ECU will not log codes unless engine is running. Cranking does not log, as others said, and now that it's running because wires are connected there are no codes to log.

 

[xavier847]

Well, pouring over the Torque Pro app I noticed that the RPMs are off by 500 between OBD2 and tachometer, the obd2 reading 500 higher. I know that my speedometer is off because I'm running slightly bigger tires than stock, but that should have nothing to do with engine rpm. I can't find anything on the net referencing this discrepancy.

Also, I'm starting to get a p0012 code, so I can at least get codes, but still no CEL. The Torque Pro app/OBD2 says that the timing is advanced 25 degrees on average, not sure how off the timing would be to pop the p0012 code but I did replace the camshaft position sensor during this installation, so I'm thinking that maybe the wire fix I did wasn't perfect. It runs perfectly(no hesitation, starts fine, and solid throttle response) and my MPG seems the same, if I'm ***** footing I can get up to 18mpg.

 

[Terminator03]

Well, pouring over the Torque Pro app I noticed that the RPMs are off by 500 between OBD2 and tachometer, the obd2 reading 500 higher. I know that my speedometer is off because I'm running slightly bigger tires than stock, but that should have nothing to do with engine rpm. I can't find anything on the net referencing this discrepancy.

Also, I'm starting to get a p0012 code, so I can at least get codes, but still no CEL. The Torque Pro app/OBD2 says that the timing is advanced 25 degrees on average, not sure how off the timing would be to pop the p0012 code but I did replace the camshaft position sensor during this installation, so I'm thinking that maybe the wire fix I did wasn't perfect. It runs perfectly(no hesitation, starts fine, and solid throttle response) and my MPG seems the same, if I'm ***** footing I can get up to 18mpg.

Wow, that’s very strange. I doubt the wiring could be advancing the timing by 25 degrees though. It almost sounds like you may be off a tooth or something. If it’s running good, and no CEL, I’d probably leave it alone though. Better to be advanced a bit than retarded with regard to performance.

 

[xavier847]

Wow, that’s very strange. I doubt the wiring could be advancing the timing by 25 degrees though. It almost sounds like you may be off a tooth or something. If it’s running good, and no CEL, I’d probably leave it alone though. Better to be advanced a bit than retarded with regard to performance.

Well, It seems to be dynamically advancing the timing(as if it's part of normal operation), and the p0012 code specifically points to Bank 1(driver's side on the V8) being over-retarded. I checked the timing again when I was fixing the wires and it was as close as I could possibly get it. I even took another set of pictures, which I'll post when I get home.

 

[AuSeeker]

Well, pouring over the Torque Pro app I noticed that the RPMs are off by 500 between OBD2 and tachometer, the obd2 reading 500 higher. I know that my speedometer is off because I'm running slightly bigger tires than stock, but that should have nothing to do with engine rpm. I can't find anything on the net referencing this discrepancy.

Also, I'm starting to get a p0012 code, so I can at least get codes, but still no CEL. The Torque Pro app/OBD2 says that the timing is advanced 25 degrees on average, not sure how off the timing would be to pop the p0012 code but I did replace the camshaft position sensor during this installation, so I'm thinking that maybe the wire fix I did wasn't perfect. It runs perfectly(no hesitation, starts fine, and solid throttle response) and my MPG seems the same, if I'm ***** footing I can get up to 18mpg.

Are you still not seeing the CEL when you turn the ignition to on but not to start?
If not then you do have a issue causing that for sure, the CEL should be on until you start the engine and for it to be throwing the P0012 code the CEL should also be on when running, so I'm guessing the CEL is actually on but either the bulb is burned out or there a short causing it to not turn on, could be the wires you pinched and they may not be patched correctly or maybe when they got pinched it burned out the bulb or the circuit in the instrument cluster.

At this point since it seems to be running well I can't imagine the timing is off as much as the app is saying it is, I would try and track down why the CEL is not on, fixing that may solve your issues, or at least it will be one less issue you have, I know you said you tested the new cam sensor, but have you tried putting the old one back in to see if there's still an issue?

 

[xavier847]

Are you still not seeing the CEL when you turn the ignition to on but not to start?
If not then you do have a issue causing that for sure, the CEL should be on until you start the engine and for it to be throwing the P0012 code the CEL should also be on when running, so I'm guessing the CEL is actually on but either the bulb is burned out or there a short causing it to not turn on, could be the wires you pinched and they may not be patch correctly or maybe when they got pinched it burned out the bulb or the circuit in the instrument cluster.

Ya, I'm still not seeing the CEL at startup, or when the code is thrown. In fact, I don't think I've seen the CEL on ever. The Center Diff Lock light barely illuminates when engaged, so there's probably some issues with the bulbs in the cluster I need to inspect.

I patched the 4(5 if including shielding wire, essentially 3 wires and 1 ground) wires that pass between the radiator mount and water pump. So, I think it one of those wires might not be completely patched and is throwing off the Camshaft Position Sensor.

I still haven't found a wiring diagram for a 2uzfe with VVT.

 

[xavier847]

More pics!

Here's pictures of the timing when I went in to fix the wires. This was as close as I could get the timing, the belt was lined up perfectly but when I installed the tensioner it slightly adjusted. So, these pics show the two cam shafts lined up perfectly but the crankshaft is just ever so slightly before the TDC "0" mark. Moving it spot on to the "0" mark, the cam marks were closest to the teeth that they are on, but were just slightly ahead kind of the vertical lines like the first pictures.

Also, there's pictures of the Torque Pro app showing the Advanced Timing and RPM, and after a bit of research the app is more reassuring than the dash tach which is ~500rpm's behind.

 

[weaves]

Sounds like you may be having some issues with your instrument cluster but your idle timing advance looks good. Service specifications state 10* BTDC (+- 2*) at idle.

 

[xavier847]

Sounds like you may be having some issues with your instrument cluster but your idle timing advance looks good. Service specifications state 10* BTDC (+- 2*) at idle.

Well, that's reassuring.

To be fair, I didn't get an OBD2 reader until after I did the timing belt change, so since there is no CEL, it could well be that it was throwing this code before I purchased it. (*shrug*, I totally didn't do an OBD2 read before buying)

 

[weaves]

I would just clear the code and then check for codes periodically to see if it comes back. If it does come back, then I would probably rule out the cam timing as it appears to be spot on and lean more towards an issue with your VVT system - particularly the VVT solenoids or clogged filters/screens. I think what's making the timing mark on the crank pulley appear to be slightly off is due to the angle the picture was taken.

You can easily test the solenoids by checking the resistance between the pins and also by applying 12v to the pins to make sure the solenoids are opening and closing. If the oil wasn't regularly changed, then sludge will build up on the screens which will affect the oil pressure to the solenoids which in turn affects your timing. My 2UZ-FE doesn't have the VVT so I'm not very familiar with this particular system but on the ones that I have worked on, the screens will be located on the solenoids itself or usually in an adjacent oil gallery in the head covered by a plug or bolt.

 

[xavier847]

Thanks for your reply. I did clear the code and the code came back the very next day. It was a Pending Code after the drive to work(includes highway driving) and was a Logged Code after the drive home. I'm leaning towards the screen being clogged, I'm not sure the kid that owned it before me did much maintenance on it. Seemed like a project build that was sold to him and he just held onto it for a year or so. I'm planning on fixing a sag in the bag window this weekend, so I'll take a closer look at it then.

 

[xavier847]

I checked the Oil-Controlled Valve on Bank 1(driver's side) for the code P0012 and although everything checked out with the multimeter, it wouldn't operate(slide) when hooked up to the battery. Ordered a new one off Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Z7O05K4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

tested it right quick with the battery, operated perfectly and installed it. Haven't had a problem with the code since.

Now, I'm just waiting on those Premo Doug Thorley headers!!