sandcrawler
Senior Member
let's face it. the SFA will never happen.
2010 Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition: Review and Pics (TruckTrend)
- Thread starter tx 4runner
- Start date
Thai
Elite Member
Putting a solid axle in a vehicle design with IFS will be extremely costly...and forget about making it an "option"!
IMHO, the 4runner is perfect with the IFS/rear axle combo. And i agree with above...if you're into hardcore off-roading, then there are other vehicles for that purpose. The 4runner has always been (in my view) a dual purpose vehicle that is extremely dependable and reliable...lets keep it that way. (BTW, this is why i am against big lifts, big tires, spacers, etc.)
80 Series is a fine offroader, but it still has worse angles than smaller trucks like an FJ40 or Wrangler.
Nevertheless, 99.99% of people who buy SUVs (even 4Runners) don't take them offroad. They will not put up with the ride and handling drawbacks of a solid front axle on the road. As sandcrawler says, a SFA simply is not going to happen. The 4Runner is already a niche vehicle. Putting a SFA on it would make that niche even smaller.
Uneek
Super Moderator
Toyota isn't offering a V8, which is already available and offered in its upscale cousin counterpart. There is no way they'll offer a solid front axle to the 2% of would be 4R owners.
An SAS is easily $8-10k. Say if Toyota did offer it and because of their deep pockets and R&D availability, it's a $5k option, the general public would not pay it. However, it's probable that we would see 50% or maybe more of the members here go for that option, if it was offered because we are enthuiasts and automotive saavy. But Toyota would rather cater to the masses because that's what brings in their bottomline.
If one really wants it, they need to visit a custom fabricator.
Nope, not interested. When I first saw the 4th gen 4runner, I instantly fell in love...but not this 5th gen...
Don't like the new styling...
Why is it heavier...where did the additional weight go?
Interior looks like it was done by Nissan...
An no V8...TORQUE is the actual power an engine makes at any given point...HORSEPOWER is how fast you can make that power...there is a reason you don't see 'high power' 4 cylinders in full size trucks...no thanks.
J
Don't like the new styling...
Why is it heavier...where did the additional weight go?
Interior looks like it was done by Nissan...
An no V8...TORQUE is the actual power an engine makes at any given point...HORSEPOWER is how fast you can make that power...there is a reason you don't see 'high power' 4 cylinders in full size trucks...no thanks.
J
drinknmolson
New member
just built mine on toyota.com
a mild lift, 35's and some slider's and this thing is a BEAST!!:lookout:
I just went to toyota.com and built one black on black, so hard to clean yet so clean lookn!!!
like my grama always said, "you don't have anything nice to say, SHUT IT"
I appreciate Toyota giving us this new 4R and sticking to what peeps who buy/drive 4R's want out of their vehicles.
Let me know when one of you needs bought out of your new 2010 4R lease, LOL!:frisky:
a mild lift, 35's and some slider's and this thing is a BEAST!!:lookout:
I just went to toyota.com and built one black on black, so hard to clean yet so clean lookn!!!
like my grama always said, "you don't have anything nice to say, SHUT IT"
I appreciate Toyota giving us this new 4R and sticking to what peeps who buy/drive 4R's want out of their vehicles.
Let me know when one of you needs bought out of your new 2010 4R lease, LOL!:frisky:
sandcrawler
Senior Member
bet even grama got the benefit of constructive criticism one time or another.
i agree in certain respects. but the issue for me is that removing the center diff removes functionality available on all 3 grades of the 4G. i don't believe that qualifies as "what peeps who buy/drive 4R's want out of their vehicles" — less functionality for the same (or even more?) $$.
i'll pm you in 2012 or 2013. maybe.
ps: drinknmolson = great handle.
Also...not sure it has been brought up...but wondering if Toyota has taken care of the some of the quality issues a few of us 4th gens have experience...driveline cluck, popping seats, broken sunroofs, etc.
I guess time will tell.
It would be interesting to see what you new 5th gens report in about a year or two...
I guess time will tell.
It would be interesting to see what you new 5th gens report in about a year or two...
I have been waiting years for the 4th gen to come to an end. IMO it was a mistake in design from the get go. They took a utilitarian go anywhere design and made that ugly triangle c-pillar and narrow hood. IMO the new one will be a hit.
agreed... i totally dislike the appearance of the 4th gens
Well, can't say I agree about all the comments of the 4th gen...I do have some gripes about the 4th gen.
The roof line could be a little taller giving more headroom.
The placement of the power window switches could have been done better.
And the front and rear overhangs could be shorted up a bit...having been under my 4Runner quite a few times to change the oil...there seems to be a long of spaces between the front bummer and radiator support...maybe done for crash worthiness???
Also, never cared for those low runner boards...but I guess they fixed that in '08...sort of.
Off to research that BIG Toyota recall I just heard on CNN...
Hey, you know what...I think I know what about the 5th gen that rubs me the wrong way (other than not having a v8)...it is the front end styling...kinda reminds of a beefed up Mitsubishi EVO...at least to me...yeah, yeah I know its bad, but it looks more like a Mitsubishi than a Toyota...
The roof line could be a little taller giving more headroom.
The placement of the power window switches could have been done better.
And the front and rear overhangs could be shorted up a bit...having been under my 4Runner quite a few times to change the oil...there seems to be a long of spaces between the front bummer and radiator support...maybe done for crash worthiness???
Also, never cared for those low runner boards...but I guess they fixed that in '08...sort of.
Off to research that BIG Toyota recall I just heard on CNN...
Hey, you know what...I think I know what about the 5th gen that rubs me the wrong way (other than not having a v8)...it is the front end styling...kinda reminds of a beefed up Mitsubishi EVO...at least to me...yeah, yeah I know its bad, but it looks more like a Mitsubishi than a Toyota...
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Uneek
Super Moderator
The triangular C-pillar is almost a signature mark on all 4Runners. Yes, the triangle is more prounced in the 4th.
I'll agree to disagree. Looks is definately subjective.
I don't think the 2010 or 2011 MY is going to break any records. Most redesigns have their highest sales in the first couple years. Let me predict this too, the 5th gen doesn't sell well because of the economy. IMO, Toyota would be lucky if the 5th given the same number of productions years, generation for generation, the 5th can acheive 75% of the total number sales the 4th had.
My reasoning for my predictions on the failure (I call it that because it won't sell nearly as much as the 4th did) of the 5th are:
-lack of V8
-fugly design
-pathetic drivetrain
-extremely LIMITED configurations
IMO Toyota nailed it with the 2006+ updates to the 4th. The 5th looks like it's assembled with Legos.
Uneek
Super Moderator
tx 4runner
New member
I just don't think this comment is productive or well founded. Are you saying the launch of the 5th gen will be a failure if fewer are sold than during the launch of the 4th gen? That's not a practical metric. The entire SUV market has shifted towards crossovers, and thank god Toyota didn't decide to turn this into another of them.
Addressing reasons 1&4:
Surely, the market demand for 4Runners has diminished over time. As there is less demand, supply will fall also. Toyota concentrates more heavily on economies of scale than other manufacturers do- it's always been this way. Fewer 4Runners to produce -> need to retain economies of scale -> less OEM options.
Griping on Toyota for the perceived devolution of the 4Runner is short-sighted without considering that their decisions are in response to larger market trends, and frankly, I'm getting tired of reading all these gripes about losing the V8.
Addressing comments 2&3:
I think the 4Runner is the best looking SUV in its class. Of course, this is a matter of personal taste. The interior looks a little cheap to me, and I wish it had projector headlights. Regardless, the 4th gen needed to be updated. And, sadly for many long-time 4runner owners, they weren't going to make a new one that looks like it was designed in 1995, with a touch of 2005.
Why is the drivetrain pathetic? The V6 is perfectly capable for everything except towing in mountains, racing, or some archaic sense of fulfillment that comes from owning a V8. Losing the center differential in the 4x4 is pretty lame, but hardly qualifies the entire drivetrain as pathetic.
As opposed to buying a comparable 2009 4th gen, I'll be pleased to own a 2010 4Runner with
- modern and aggressive design
- much needed improvements to the interior
- enhanced engine and mileage (not much, about 5%)
- improved instrument panel and other electronic do-dads
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Uneek
Super Moderator
My comments are my opinion of the 5th. It won't change what a prospective buyer is looking for nor what Toyota is going to produce. The 5th is not on the drawing board. It's in production and sitting on some dealers lot. So productive, won't change anything and Toyota shunned me away. I'm not trying to convince anyone NOT to buy a 5th. If they like it, more power to them. I might be one of the few who will not be in a 5th and hope my 4th will be around until the 6th is out. And if you bought a 5th, congrats.
I call it a "failure" because what does Toyota do best? They dominate. Toyota gets into a segment that another manufacturer is in and enjoying. Here are some examples of Toyota going after that segment and some are "failures".
-Mazda Miata, Honda S2000. Toyota's answer MR-S. Didn't hit the ground running there.
-BMW 3-series, M3; Lexus IS-series, IS-F, respectively. Not close even close, 2nd gen IS is doing better. (Lexus might be unseated as the #1 luxury brand in the US by BMW.)
-Big American 6-seater cars, Avalon. Toyota killed off the LaSabre's, etc. and Avalon returned to a 5-seater.
-Full size trucks, T100 (no chance), first gen Tundra was getting better, but still 7/8's full size. They got it right with the 2nd gen Tundra, more than a decade later after trying to enter the full size segment.
-Jeep Wrangler; FJ Cruiser. The FJC did enjoy a good sales run the first couple years and was very popular. And IIRC, the FJC is going to cease production.
-Ford Expedition went after the Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon, Toyota jumped in with the Sequoia.
I'll agree with you that there's a shift in the market from gas guzzling SUVs to more fuel efficient cars. Another way to look at this would be ranking the 4Runner's sales against competitors in its class for the 4th and 5th gen. How well is this new generation stacking up in a shrinking demand? Wouldn't it's competitor see similar drops in sales?
Isn't it most costly to offer a part time and full time 4WD system for the same engine configurations, when you can do just one for all trims?
Why are they even offering the Highlander and RAV4? The two are so similar in size now. The RAV4 has grew so much that it's almost wrong to say the CR-V is its competitor. They might as well drop one of these, considering both of them offer three row seating and the same V6.
The V8, it distinguished the 4th gen in the midsize SUV class, enough that Nissan stuffed their 5.7 V8 into the Pathfinder. Let's face it, there is a good number of 4th gen V8 owners who will not return to a 4Runner due to the lack of a V8. Toyota doesn't like loyalty? Don't think so.
When I bought my 4th gen, I went with the V6 because it's a newer engine design. If Toyota put the 4.6 V8, I would get that over the 4.0 V6 that's available now. If it was still the 4.7 V8, then I would get the 4.0 V6. Just my personal preference for a newer engine design and I don't tow.
I won't discuss looks, since it's subjective and that's agreed upon. Yes, in due time a particular design generation should not stick around forever, like the Acura NSX and Lexus SC. 5-7yrs should be it for a generation. So the 4th's time is up. All good things must come to an end.
V8 addressed above.
You cannot get the multi-mode 4WD unless it's the Limited. It looks like the Limited does not have the 2WD option anymore. The 4th gen TE has multi-mode with the locker. The 4th can be locked or unlocked in 4H and 4L, based on the knob in the 5th gen Limited, that's not the case. I don't see why the 4th's multi-mode drivetrain was dropped in favor of a part time system in the 5th's SR5 and TE.
1, subjective.
2, subjective, but appears to be lower grade materials, too much use of hard plastics.
3, agreed, but lack of more powerful engine. Would be better, if new 4.0 V6 tops both hp and torque of outgoing V8.
4, gauges look better (center stack design is subjective), eletronic goodies are mainly on the Limited of which it's drivetrain falls short of the 4th's.
Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from owning a 5th. Just MY opinions on the 5th. Who knows, maybe with the 5.5 gen (mid-gen refresh) I might start to like it. I didn't like the 4th during its debut either, but warmed up to it rather quickly and loved the mid-gen refresh. We'll see in a few years. I hope I'll learn to like it.
