2018 TRD Pro or Offroad and KDSS question

[nb rob]

I think your numbers might be off some. See the link.

https://www.carfax.com/Used-Toyota-4Runner-TRD-Pro_t6696

Of course these are asking prices, but many forum members have reported sales comparable to these asking prices. Seems like white models suffer the greatest depreciation.

Also, it would make no sense to sell a car, private party, for its trade in value. That is, you would be better off trading it in and reaping the sales tax savings.

Ok look, a list of overpriced used cars that haven't sold

 

[Jetboy]

I think your numbers might be off some. See the link.

https://www.carfax.com/Used-Toyota-4Runner-TRD-Pro_t6696

Of course these are asking prices, but many forum members have reported sales comparable to these asking prices. Seems like white models suffer the greatest depreciation.

Also, it would make no sense to sell a car, private party, for its trade in value. That is, you would be better off trading it in and reaping the sales tax savings.

Not my numbers. The nominal value doesn't really matter as long as they're calculated the same way. I believe NADA requires "very clean" trade in values that it inputs to its algorithm. So it's actually a bit higher than what you should realistically expect to get as a trade in. Either way - it doesn't matter. The point is to show the difference between the two, not the absolute value of either. And the rounding I did actually suggest that the TRD Pro is slightly lower depreciation, if I don't round - the TRD Pro has about $300 more depreciation in 3 years than a Trail Premium, but it's in the margin of error. The point is that they both hold their value about the same.

Now if you wait 2 more years - the trail/OR will be a better resale relative to purchase price. Once the next generation of TRD Pro is released, all the old model pro's will drop to the same price as the old Trail/OR models. Just like the Tacomas did. Either way - they all have great resale right now. We can't very well predict what will happen in the next generation. If Toyota offers the 3.0L turbo or the 5.0L v8 - these will depreciate pretty quick. If Toyota brings the next model out with the 3.5L and a 2.0t as engine options - these might go up in value. (I have an RX350, and after spending a thousand miles in a '16 tacoma - the 3.5 is just fine for the Tacoma too, I don't understand what all the fuss is about, but people seem to not like it.) $5/gal gasoline would also hurt us. Ultimately it's pretty hard to predict the future. Figure out what is the best balance for your budget and desires now and go with it. In the end no matter which 4runner you get - they're all basically the same with minor tweaks.

Now... just since we're spitballing here, this is an alternate formula for a badass 4runner; buy a used sr5 premium for $25k. You've got $20k of cash to work with, spend $6k on a supercharger. Spend $5k on a custom width diamond 9.5" rear axle with a locker. Spend the remaining $9k on a long travel kit and 35's. It'll be worth less than $25k when you're done wasting money - but it sure would be fun to blast around in.

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

I know this has been asked before, and I have read all the threads and dont think my question is clearly answered. As I see it the 2018 TRD Pro does not have KDSS but does have other suspension features, but what does that mean? I dont care about the moonroof, pretty badging or superficial bling, and will worry about price separately. Which is better off road, the TRD Pro without KDSS or the Offroad with KDSS. Any specific details on differences in ground clearance and wheel travel would be nice, I cant find that anywhere. Many thanks.

MBM

For Christ's sake its different, not better. Your driving habits will accentuate the vehicle setup

 

[6172crew]

2017 KDSS ORP ,love the way it handles on the road. Whips corners like my tacoma, if not better. I might end up running some of the dobinson trd pro type springs up front but not sure I really want to mess around with what works. I live where it snows and plenty of off roading but I don't spend that much time doing it. Up here there are all kinds of 4runners, jeeps and tacos, some are setup for serious off-roading but I dont know that I need to mod mine yet. I do own a older 93 MT 4runner and it will get me just about anywhere and I dont need to wash it.

 

[mvt4r]

This forum rocks. You guys are great. I have been 10 years driving 4Runners, and member here 4 or 5 years but never really asked much so thank you all. Here are a few pics of the trail I deal with now. Some sections are much worse then anything pictured but worth a look still.

It is really hard to judge trail difficulty in a picture, but those pictures look like they'd be no issue for a stock OR or Pro as long as you put good a/t tires on it (generally, the a/t will have better ice traction, the m/t better mud and deep snow traction). The stock OR tires will not cut it in that mud.

Do *not* underestimate tires, they are probably the most important upgrade.

If I were you, I would save the money from the Pro and get the OR or ORP with KDSS. Then I would swap the tires and add a winch and recovery kit with the money saved. If the trail has more difficult sections and is muddy the winch will bail you out more often than the TRD Pro will.

 

[SierraMare]

I have a 2015 KDSS-equipped Trail, which I love, but then it fits my needs. Namely, it gives me a great planted ride on twisty highways, something I learned when I test drove a Non-KDSS and KDSS-equipped Trails back to back. If you are spending most of your time on highways, then the planted ride of KDSS will probably be most appreciated.

Judging from the pictures you posted that doesn't look like a tough trail by any means, and ANY 4Runner will handle with ease. On the finer points, KDSS-equipped 4Runners have slightly less ground clearance stock (9" versus 9.6").

You might be interested in this as part of your research:
Originally Posted by [MENTION=102398]DeepSea[/MENTION]:
Check this article about KDSS. I love mine, especially lifted

https://www.4x4australia.com.au/revi...rado-kdss-test

“ On the Prado’s rear axle, KDSS increases wheel travel from 465mm to 565mm (more than 20 per cent).”

In the final analysis, get what best fits your priorities AND what makes you happy. Good luck.

 

[DeepSea]

“It all depends what you want and how you will use it.” From my personal experience and what I’ve read on here, (no disrespect) the Pro is only worth the money if you’re going to run stock and/or get the unique color for that year (one color per year is TRD Pro specific). Too many people buy them and then rip out the suspension and wheels and they are left with an overpriced bunch of accessories that we can buy from the dealership. I knew I was going to lift my ‘17 so I did not have interest in KDSS or a Pro. I would love a Pro specific color, but not in the budget for me just for the paint job. Most people do love their KDSS. I for one have never driven one and I refuse to, because I knew I wanted to lift and I’m sure I would sadly love the KDSS. I am probably wrong here, but I think that if you’re properly lifting and using quality springs, you won’t notice the benefits of KDSS as much. In my simple mind, seems like money wasted; hence my TRD Off Road without KDSS and lifted by ICON.


I’m far from an expert, just sharing opinions based on research. Best of luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I test drove both with and without kdss and think the kdss is awesome and was reminded how awesome doing some switch backs the other day. Will only be lifting 3 inches or less so I don't need to worry about ripping out kdss.

Ditto what this guy said. I like my KDSS, I'm mainly onroad and it's awesome, if I do lift it'll only be 3". Just get the KDSS, you'll be happy you did.

I back KDSS both as being liftable (3") and the ride quality benefit, especially over non-KDSS equipped rigs. I've trail tested both and it's night and day difference. It doesn't feel top heavy or "rolly" as non-KDSS. Test drive them for yourself and see what you prefer. I'm 100% happier having KDSS

 

[Grape Ape]

There is no such thing as a Pro vin. So no buyer could ever determine if your vehicle is a pro or not. If it's not the unique color - it's indistinguishable from any other model to a potential buyer if you were to convert the parts. It's no different from someone at the port doing the same thing.

I'm a bit confused by this comment. By this logic, why would anyone buy an OR or ORP? Why wouldn't everyone just buy a base model and buy the parts to make it whatever model they want? It's the same thing as what you stated above.

 

[nb rob]

I'm a bit confused by this comment. By this logic, why would anyone buy an OR or ORP? Why wouldn't everyone just buy a base model and buy the parts to make it whatever model they want? It's the same thing as what you stated above.

Locker, crawl control, MTS, mechanical transfer case shift, softex seats. These are in the ORP.

These would be prohibitively expensive to put in an SR5.

 

[Jetboy]

I'm a bit confused by this comment. By this logic, why would anyone buy an OR or ORP? Why wouldn't everyone just buy a base model and buy the parts to make it whatever model they want? It's the same thing as what you stated above.

There's a big difference between adding black accent bumper covers and a skid plate, and swapping a rear axle to an e-locker, adding crawl control and the electronics, or adding KDSS.

The difference in sale price from a SR5 to a Trail is about $3-4k. You simply can't add a rear e-locker, crawl control, MTS, and the other features an OR comes with for less than buying the Trail edition directly. If you want KDSS - you'd be looking at at least $10k to upgrade. (And on a Prado 150 - it requires a $10k upgrade package - for the 4runner, it's a bargain at $1800.)

In comparison the difference between the OR and Pro is cosmetic. The only functional difference is the skid plate ($250), tires ($500) and the shocks ($800). Since most people who want to go off road a lot would throw the shocks and tires away anyway - the only additional value for most of us is the skid plate and cosmetics. For the huge price gap between the two - converting an OR cosmetics is pretty easy to do for less.

If the Pro were something like $1,000 more, it would probably be a decent value. The large gap in price means it's not a very good deal. Unless you want the unique color. If you do - it's cheaper to buy a Pro than repaint an OR.

If you want to build a more hardcore trail vehicle - the sr5 is the best starting point.

 

[mvt4r]

There is no such thing as a Pro vin. So no buyer could ever determine if your vehicle is a pro or not. If it's not the unique color - it's indistinguishable from any other model to a potential buyer if you were to convert the parts. It's no different from someone at the port doing the same thing.

This is not true. Here is a VIN for a TRD Pro for sale in Texas:

JTEBU5JR4J5486867

Enter it at this site https://www.toyota.com/owners/vehicle-specification. It comes up as a TRD Pro.

The manufacturer knows exactly what model and factory equipment is on every VIN and a dealer (or anyone in this case) can look it up. They need this for recall notifications at the very least.

Moreover, it is always cheaper to buy the car closest to what you want then it is to buy parts (at least new OEM parts). The front TRD Pro garnish is something like $600 new by itself. There is no way the car manufacturer will let you come out ahead buying OEM parts instead of the upgraded vehicle.

 

[nb rob]

I dunno,
I have everything the pro has, plus king shocks and dirtking ucas, taller springs, a sunroof and KDSS and turn signals on my side mirrors.

For less.

Literally the only thing I can't get is auto headlights.

 

[Jetboy]

This is not true. Here is a VIN for a TRD Pro for sale in Texas:

JTEBU5JR4J5486867

Enter it at this site https://www.toyota.com/owners/vehicle-specification. It comes up as a TRD Pro.

The manufacturer knows exactly what model and factory equipment is on every VIN and a dealer (or anyone in this case) can look it up. They need this for recall notifications at the very least.

Moreover, it is always cheaper to buy the car closest to what you want then it is to buy parts (at least new OEM parts). The front TRD Pro garnish is something like $600 new by itself. There is no way the car manufacturer will let you come out ahead buying OEM parts instead of the upgraded vehicle.

That website does identify it. I've never seen another source do that. I stand corrected. I bet at least one person here has a faux pro and doesn't know it. It's easy for anyone to swap the plastics and add the skid plate.

It's still an appearance package. The black bumper cover is only $180ish. If you add $1000 for the front clip, $250 for the skid plate, $600 for the wheels, and $1000 for the shocks - you've still got a pile of cash leftover from covering the difference in price. In fact it's very easy to replicate a Pro for a good bit less than the price difference. Now that the OR comes with the same skid plate, it's just a matter of black bumper garnish and upper grill section.

Of course I wouldn't suggest anyone actually do that. It would make no sense when you can upgrade an OR instead. Most people would put a Slimline bumper on and a winch instead of the Pro front clip for the $1000. And most people would have adjustable 6112/5160 shocks with a lift instead of bung the non-adjustable version from Toyota. Or go the next step up with 2.5" monotube shocks from any of the major players in that market. You can do this all for less than the price difference. Unless you want the special color. In that case - buy the pro.

You could make an SR5 a "pro" visually for pretty cheap too.

 

[e60ral]

there is even a user on here who has a fake Trail and doesn't know it, they even have KDSS in their signature and everything

 

[vondy21]

If we go back to the original question from the OP. I would say in stock form the Pro is more capable off-road simply because it comes with better tires and slightly more ground clearance in the front.

That said, I would get and OR with KDSS and upgrade the tires. I think you'd be about even off-road wise for the trails you are doing. Then you get the added benefit on-road with the KDSS. There would be plenty of money left over from the price difference of a Pro to upgrade the suspension if you felt the need.

 

[mvt4r]

That website does identify it. I've never seen another source do that. I stand corrected. I bet at least one person here has a faux pro and doesn't know it. It's easy for anyone to swap the plastics and add the skid plate.

It's still an appearance package. The black bumper cover is only $180ish. If you add $1000 for the front clip, $250 for the skid plate, $600 for the wheels, and $1000 for the shocks - you've still got a pile of cash leftover from covering the difference in price. In fact it's very easy to replicate a Pro for a good bit less than the price difference. Now that the OR comes with the same skid plate, it's just a matter of black bumper garnish and upper grill section.

Of course I wouldn't suggest anyone actually do that. It would make no sense when you can upgrade an OR instead. Most people would put a Slimline bumper on and a winch instead of the Pro front clip for the $1000. And most people would have adjustable 6112/5160 shocks with a lift instead of bung the non-adjustable version from Toyota. Or go the next step up with 2.5" monotube shocks from any of the major players in that market. You can do this all for less than the price difference. Unless you want the special color. In that case - buy the pro.

You could make an SR5 a "pro" visually for pretty cheap too.

To be clear, the VIN itself does not necessarily encode the trim level, so a VIN decoder may not be able identify the trim level. However, the manufacturer does have the extra data, which is what you see from Toyota's website.

Here is a discussion of what the various parts of the VIN mean.

Also, that oh so cool front garnish on the TRD Pro that covers the bumper cross member goes for just under $570 retail, $400 discounted if you google for it. Then another $170 or so for the upper grill mesh to eliminate the modern toyota logo. I wanted the look but there was no way I'm spending that kind of money for the TRD Pro grill.

 

[mbmellis]

The Jury Has Decided - Thank You All

Thanks for the many comments and I will keep checking back but there does seem to be a pretty strong consensus. I'll be ordering the OffRoad with KDSS, doing a lift and getting all terrain tires.

 

[mvt4r]

Thanks for the many comments and I will keep checking back but there does seem to be a pretty strong consensus. I'll be ordering the OffRoad with KDSS, doing a lift and getting all terrain tires.

Are you going to spring for the Premium, or just the base Off Road?

 

[nb rob]

Are you going to spring for the Premium, or just the base Off Road?

The OP is in Canada.

here in Canada, the off road comes as premium only, and they all have KDSS.
There's no options.

 

[mbmellis]

Pulled the trigger - the order is in.

2018 TRD Offroad is now due to arrive in a few weeks. Any suggestions on Lift Kit or tires good for both on and off road much appreciated.