2023 Off-road Premium 4WD shift?

[BlueRunner428]

The lever (on 4Runners with a lever) goes into the VF2A transfer case, and actually moves the shift fork in the transfer case to engage 4wd, and low-range when 4-lo is engaged. This sends power to the front diff via the driveshaft (or propeller shaft as Toyota refers to it).

However, there is still an electric actuator (the ADD actuator) which engages the front axle to the front differential.

SR5 models use a knob controlling an electric actuator on the transfer case to shift into 4wd hi and 4wd lo. THere is also the ADD actuator engaging the front axle.

Limited models use an electric actuator to shift from full-time 4wd into 4hi locked, and 4lo locked, and back. There is no ADD on the Limited models as the front axle is always being driven.

So what would be best would be if the Off-Road and Pro models came with the full-time 4WD system but with a manual transfer case to lock and unlock the center differential and to shift it from 4Hi into 4Lo.

One benefit of the 4Runners also (albeit at the sacrifice of fuel economy) is there are no locking/unlocking hubs because the hubs are bolted to the axle, so the front differential gears rotate even when in 2WD.

So full-time 4WD with the manual transfer case, that would be bombproof.

 

[BlueRunner428]

In addition to the 2014 SR5 and the 2023 ORP, I have a 1994 K2500 Suburban 4WD diesel and a 1999 K2500 Suburban 4WD diesel. The ‘94 is manual shift with electronic actuator on the front differential. The ‘99 is push button shift with electronic actuator on the front differential. In addition to 4Hi and 4Lo, the ‘99 has AWD…when it works.

I have had all sorts of problems with the ‘99 of late. New transfer case and transmission last year. It will shift into 4Hi, which I’ve verified on and off pavement, but the light on the button just flashes. Won’t shift into 4Lo or AWD. I have replaced the shift motor on the case, the Transfer Case control module and the shift button assembly. I was going through electrical tests and documenting results before I had to go back into the office in LA (truck is up in Montana). I have since order a used complete set of shop manuals off eBay and that rig will come down here for me to work on it. Just no fun doing electrical in freezing weather.

I just rebuilt an NP 241-C transfer case and used it to replace the leaking one in the ‘94. Not too hard of a job:

Remember for 4Lo you need to shift into Neutral. Also you need to engage the 4WD system regularly or the motors/actuators will seize up and stop working.

 

[fkheath]

Nah the lever part itself is manual. There is still an electrical component/actuator in the front end that needs to click in for 4wd to work though.

If the lever meant the whole system was 100% manual, it would be bulletproof and highly preferable, to me at least.



Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

The transfer case is manually activated. The front axle is electronically actuated once the transfer case is engaged manually (4WD icon blinking until the axle is engaged.)

Correct. The factory repair manual clearly shows that it is manually activated:
TOYOTA 2016-2019 4Runner Repair Manual RM27F0U

 

[fkheath]

I just rebuilt an NP 241-C transfer case and used it to replace the leaking one in the ‘94. Not too hard of a job:

Nice job!

 

[fkheath]

One benefit of the 4Runners also (albeit at the sacrifice of fuel economy) is there are no locking/unlocking hubs because the hubs are bolted to the axle, so the front differential gears rotate even when in 2WD.

The infamous "groaning/grinding noise" then shows up only in 2WD and not when 4WD is selected:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154805-9999.pdf

 

[BlueRunner428]

The infamous "groaning/grinding noise" then shows up only in 2WD and not when 4WD is selected:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154805-9999.pdf

Reading that, it says it was a problem unique to the front differentials of 2016-2019 4Runners and can be repaired.

 

[02SE]

So what would be best would be if the Off-Road and Pro models came with the full-time 4WD system but with a manual transfer case to lock and unlock the center differential and to shift it from 4Hi into 4Lo.

One benefit of the 4Runners also (albeit at the sacrifice of fuel economy) is there are no locking/unlocking hubs because the hubs are bolted to the axle, so the front differential gears rotate even when in 2WD.

So full-time 4WD with the manual transfer case, that would be bombproof.

If I had the choice, I'd choose the multi-mode VF4AM. For 2wd, Full-time 4wd, and Part-time 4wd in hi and lo range.

But the Part-time VF2A in my TRD ORP is adequate for my use.

 

[Captain Spalding]

Is it really though? I mean an SR5 with just the A-trac is probably just as capable. The locker just gives the added benefit to be able to have both rear wheels locked together without constantly engaging the A-trac.

The advantage of the locking differential is that it operates proactively, while the A-Trac operates reactively. A-Trac is brilliant at helping inexperienced drivers get out of a tough spot. A locking differential wil help an experienced driver avoid getting into the tough spot in the first place.

So what would be best would be if the Off-Road and Pro models came with the full-time 4WD system but with a manual transfer case to lock and unlock the center differential and to shift it from 4Hi into 4Lo … So full-time 4WD with the manual transfer case, that would be bombproof.

I used to have a ‘97 Defender that was as you describe. It had full time 4WD and a transfer case with a locking differential and a manual shift lever. The lever had 4 positions: 4hi, 4lo, 4hi locked, and 4lo locked. It was awesome.

Remember for 4Lo you need to shift into Neutral. Also you need to engage the 4WD system regularly or the motors/actuators will seize up and stop working.

Haha. Remember for 4lo you need to shift into neutral and STOP.

 

[thatoneguy]

I used to have a ‘97 Defender that was as you describe. It had full time 4WD and a transfer case with a locking differential and a manual shift lever. The lever had 4 positions: 4hi, 4lo, 4hi locked, and 4lo locked. It was awesome.

My '99 4Runner Limited w/e-locker had similar, nice wide functionality. It had 2hi, 4hi, 4hi locked, and 4Lo. Having both "part time 4WD" and "full time 4WD" in a transfer case that also allows 2WD is nice! I lost that "full time 4WD" functionality stepping up to my 2023 ORP.

 

[Mach141]

The lever (on 4Runners with a lever) goes into the VF2A transfer case, and actually moves the shift fork in the transfer case to engage 4wd, and low-range when 4-lo is engaged. This sends power to the front diff via the driveshaft (or propeller shaft as Toyota refers to it).

However, there is still an electric actuator (the ADD actuator) which engages the front axle to the front differential.

SR5 models use a knob controlling an electric actuator on the transfer case to shift into 4wd hi and 4wd lo. THere is also the ADD actuator engaging the front axle.

Limited models use an electric actuator to shift from full-time 4wd into 4hi locked, and 4lo locked, and back. There is no ADD on the Limited models as the front axle is always being driven.

Would it be more accurate to say the ADD actuator engages the front drive shaft to the front diff., and not the front axle to the front diff?

 

[02SE]

Would it be more accurate to say the ADD actuator engages the front drive shaft to the front diff., and not the front axle to the front diff?

No, it would be inaccurate to say that.

The ADD (Automatic Disconnecting Differential) actuator engages the right (passenger side) CV axle which is always spinning when the vehicle is moving, to the front differential, which then allows the power coming from the transfer case (after it is shifted into 4wd) through the front driveshaft (or Propeller Shaft as Toyota refers to it) to drive the front differential.

The left (drivers side) CV axle is always spinning when the vehicle is moving. But it only spins the spider gears (or side gears as they're sometimes referred to) in the front differential when the vehicle is in 2wd.

 

[Mach141]

No, it would be inaccurate to say that.

The ADD (Automatic Disconnecting Differential) actuator engages the right (passenger side) CV axle which is always spinning when the vehicle is moving, to the front differential, which then allows the power coming from the transfer case (after it is shifted into 4wd) through the front driveshaft (or Propeller Shaft as Toyota refers to it) to drive the front differential.

The left (drivers side) CV axle is always spinning when the vehicle is moving. But it only spins the spider gears (or side gears as they're sometimes referred to) in the front differential when the vehicle is in 2wd.

reason i ask, mine is on jack stands, all 4 wheels off the ground, and i was able to spin the front driveshaft freely without anything moving up front, cv axles or diff. Which means the driveshaft is not connected to the front diff when in 2wd

 

[02SE]

reason i ask, mine is on jack stands, all 4 wheels off the ground, and i was able to spin the front driveshaft freely without anything moving up front, cv axles or diff. Which means the driveshaft is not connected to the front diff when in 2wd

It means that the pinion was spinning the ring gear, and the side (spider) gears were rotating around the stationary gears attached to the left CV axle, and the shaft coming in from the ADD on the right side.

If you had ever had an open differential apart, or assembled many of them as I have, it would make sense.

 

[rdruss]

It means that the pinion was spinning the ring gear, and the side (spider) gears were rotating around the stationary gears attached to the left CV axle, and the shaft coming in from the ADD on the right side.

If you had ever had an open differential apart, or assembled many of them as I have, it would make sense.

Yeah, differential operation is probably one of the more difficult things to visualize, IMO.

 

[Mach141]

this helps

 

[Mach141]

So is the driveshaft spinning in 2wd mode? Just disengaged from the transfer case

 

[02SE]

No. The left CV axle only spins the side (spider) gears in the differential. As I said in post 31.

The driveshaft (propeller shaft as Toyota refers to them) between the T-case and front diff is stationary in 2wd.