255s Versus 285s: Facts Over Fashion

The public relations aspect of this thread has been well covered so I won't go there. The technical side doesn't leave much to discuss except for overall context.

...a narrower tire grips these few high spots BETTER than the wider tires at the same pressure.

At the risk of nitpicking, though, I'd like to point out that comparing the tires at equal pressure is not apples to apples. It unfairly punishes the tire with greater load capacity. A better metric would be equal tire deflection (difference in radius between lower and upper). Using 255/85/16 and 285/75/16 to compare, the wider tire, having more load capacity, will be relatively more stiff at the same psi. Lowering it the 3 or so psi that it looks to me it would take to bring it to approximate load parity with the narrow tire would also make it closer in performance (3 psi being not insignificant at offroad pressures).

Also, the narrow tire exposes more sidewall. I'm not sure the issue is as cut and dried as it appears. As always when it comes to tire selection, there are lots of tradeoffs.
 
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WOW! I go spend a couple of days over on Tacoma World, and I miss all this excitement! lol!

I'm only going to say one thing.... I have 285's, I don't wheel, I drive a Mall Crawler, and I'm not going anywhere! I like this forum, and the people here! lol!

That being said... I'm shopping for a 2nd Gen Double Cab Long Box Taco right now... so gonna be hitting up both forums from now on!

Can't we all just be friends??
 
I've ran 285's, 315's and currently run 255's. I liked the 285's but wanted a little more so I went to 35's. This go around I wanted to try and keep a little better mpg so I went with 255's. I honestly liked all of them. Everyone needs to quit *****ing about tires sizes and go wheel. I guarantee anyone with 255's can keep up with someone on 285's and vice-versa. We are talking about like an inch or so here. As mentioned it's mainly driver skill more than anything. Put a newb in a built rig with 35's and a skilled driver in a rig with 32's/33's and I guarantee the 33's will go further. Pull your skirts down boys.
 
For some reason it seems 285/75 tires are far and away the most common tire people aspire to put on their rigs regardless of an individual's actual driving habits, conditions, etc. This completely confounds me. Cars are not an inexpensive hobby, and it seems silly to waste money like that (not only on the tires themselves, but the related repairs and modifications that result). The subject of 255s/285s subject has come up in a number of threads here lately, and I feel most people are basing their decisions on these sorts of things based on aesthetics, W-esque feelings, and "what Bobby-Joe did" rather than anything all that objective or substantial... Hopefully it's for lack of information rather than such poor decision making.

For starters, read this article. It's not a blog, not a sales piece, not some random guy's post on some random forum, it's a fairly well written and researched white paper. If you need help understanding anything in the article, this link and this one will probably come in handy.

The best tire for a given rig is dependent upon where and what that rig will be doing its thing (and definitely not what other people in the area or on your favorite forum are using). If you wheel mostly in sand and mud, yes a wider tire is probably a better bet. If you wheel just about anywhere else (to include mall parking lots) the narrower tire is better.

The standard theory on tire size as I've seen it stated in the myriad discussions on the subject is that wider tires provide better grip because the tread covers more square inches. This is excellent justification for a wider tire IF your surfaces you're getting traction on are smooth and regular like tarmac. The alternate side to that theory is flotation; this applies only to smooth regular surfaces that are soft like sand or mud and deep enough that cutting through does not provide the greater tractive force. These are the ONLY instances in which that theory holds water.

Most of us, however, do not do our wheeling in deep soft sand and mud, we do it on rocks and sticks and dirt and such. These surfaces are hard and irregular, and do not require or benefit from any sort of flotation or distributed surface area (you're only going to be contacting the highest spots). If you read the white paper (the link), I don't think you have to get through more than the intro to see the point illustrated that a narrower tire grips these few high spots BETTER than the wider tires at the same pressure.

When wheeling you air your tires down not to increase the footprint of the tread, but to allow the tire to conform to the terrain and "grip" it. The paper uses the more appropriate term "mechanical keying". A narrower tire aired down and compared to an identically inflated wider tire will grip the available terrain BETTER than a wider tire due to the exact same effect as the flotation advantage had by the wider tires in soft terrain. Since the load on the wider tire is spread out more, it can't grip the available grippy spots as tightly (because that grip is spread out over more potential grippy spots) as the narrower tire.

Think in terms of specific scenarios:

A big rock:
Smooth, rounded, probably some sand or something dusted over the top
Advantage: draw. Unless the big rock is really big and really smooth, they're pretty much going to be contacting the same area

A bunch of smaller, but still decent-sized rocks:
Jagged, irregularly distributed, firm
Advantage: skinny tire. The narrower tire grips more firmly on fewer points as it deforms over them than the wider tire which is "floating" (borrowing the term) more loosely over the top of several rocks with less overall deformation.

Hard dirt:
Distributed, gives some but not much, irregular surface, will displace
Advantage: skinny tire. The narrow tire will, for the same reasons as the smaller rocks scenario, grip the parts of the terrain that are firm. Where the terrain is loose, the narrower tire has a better chance of cutting through to the more firma terra.

Slick Rock:
wide, generally flat textured surfaces with gentle curves, firm
Advantage: kind of a draw really... It's like driving over sand paper. You could pretty easily get by with just about any tire. It's called slick rock because it was slick for horses with their shoes and the hard wagon wheels, not because tires didn't stick to it like glue.

Mud:
Mud
Advantage: Depends on the depth... Narrower tire wins if the mud is shallow, wider if it's deep and soupy.

Sand:
sand
Advantage: see mud.

Snow:
snow:
Advantage: wider is better for deep snow to stay on top, narrower is better for less deep snow to cut through to the grippy terrain.

I'm going to go ahead and stop with the scenarios. Apply the logic to whatever you want.

If you use your 4Runner for anything other than occasional (or even regular) wheeling like, I don't know, a general mode of transportation, the narrower tires are better period. Better fuel economy, larger tires without body modification, etc. All those reasons stated a million times elsewhere. If your rig is built for extended adventure travel (long, unsupported trips over any and all terrain), you're generally better off with the narrower tires as they're better suited for a wider variety of uses. If you just want it to look cool in the parking lot with the tires sticking out, get the wider ones and try this forum for future postings.

woow dude, 6 or so months into your 4Runner, and you are already an "expert" :bravo:
Ive been wheeling here in the Rocky mnts every weekend for about 7 years now, and a few years before that in the mid-west, and Im still a "noob" I learn something new everytime Im out.

I do know what works for me, and the type of wheeling that I do here, and you, want to tell me that Im wrong ???? after 7 years of wheeling here ? just cause you read something online :lmao:
I dont know where you live, but if you are close, to the Denver area, and want to hit a trail sometime, Id be more than happy to have you show me, all that you know, Im always willing and wanting to learn.
 
Wow. Flamefest. Standing back, I would say it's well deserved. Apologies. I was definitely thoroughly miffed when writing the post, though not at anyone in particular (at least not in a way that I would call them out directly) and it came through as just generally douchey. The annoyed tone on my part was directed at the tendency on this forum, more than any other forum I've seen, for people looking for answers to be met with baseless opinions (i.e. 285s are the only tire worth putting on a 4Runner and everything else looks dumb; again, not directed at anyone in particular) or answers for the sake of answers. The closest comparison is Yahoo Answers or About.com and other such places where people ask random questions and get a bunch of useless answers. A request to identify a hose is met with a list of all hose-like parts that may be found in or on a vehicle with a sparse smattering of the correct answer (though with no way for an uninformed individual to be able to tell up from down). The same goes for tires and mods and other such random things. Someone new to cars comes along and asks for some basic advice on what they should do with their car, and they're met with such answers like "snorkels" and the like (so much so that it's a joke). That (the bad information that can very easily lead to unsafe conditions and situations if heeded) is the safety issue that was being indirectly referred to (nothing to do with the tires and not at all stated the in OP, my bad again). The non-acceptance of "out there" ideas (like paneling the rear windows) isn't surprising in the least (hence the "crazy idea" thread titles); those sorts of reactions are pretty common across most things... My "thin" tires on my "hitler transportation box" (I've honestly never heard that one before, and I've heard a lot of them) were thin in the "worn" sense versus the narrow sense, though they were definitely thin in the narrow sense as well (there's not a lot of room for anything else, especially in the rear with the skirts and the swing axles). I'll not bother with the other personal attacks/flames etc. Some might be merited, some are gut reactions (on par with the OP). Again, I apologize for my tone. I'm conflicted about going back and editing given the following three pages... Context would completely go out the window, and the thread is pretty much trash now anyway. Please consider the post on the merits of the information presented over the way it's presented.
 
^^^Please don't quote massive posts to add a small comment at the end, thanks.


You really just lowered yourself to his level there.

I personally, whenever I have enough money, am going with 255s and I don't think they look re****ed. I actually like the way they look better than the 285s. I also like Pirate4x4 also because the information over there is insane and there are tons of threads on everything. Does that make me a re****ed douche bag? There are more than a few high-horses running around this forum

Yeah that one just slipped out, sorry haha. There I go with my damn opinion again.


The Kid has an excellent point though, 285's are not wide tires and I would hardly call 255's "narrow". Both are in the neutral zone IMO. Wide would be things like 305's and beyond. And If the OP really took his words to heart, he would get the 235s.

Long story short it wasn't the info that was being shot down, but how it was presented and exaggerated. OP got what he deserved.
 
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i think the next tires im gonna get are the toyo open country MTs in a 385/70/16... yeup your read that right a 385... i think pontiac said it best -"wider is better" lol:sleepy:
 
Wow. Flamefest. Standing back, I would say it's well deserved. Apologies. I was definitely thoroughly miffed when writing the post, though not at anyone in particular (at least not in a way that I would call them out directly) and it came through as just generally douchey. The annoyed tone on my part was directed at the tendency on this forum, more than any other forum I've seen, for people looking for answers to be met with baseless opinions (i.e. 285s are the only tire worth putting on a 4Runner and everything else looks dumb; again, not directed at anyone in particular) or answers for the sake of answers. The closest comparison is Yahoo Answers or About.com and other such places where people ask random questions and get a bunch of useless answers. A request to identify a hose is met with a list of all hose-like parts that may be found in or on a vehicle with a sparse smattering of the correct answer (though with no way for an uninformed individual to be able to tell up from down). The same goes for tires and mods and other such random things. Someone new to cars comes along and asks for some basic advice on what they should do with their car, and they're met with such answers like "snorkels" and the like (so much so that it's a joke). That (the bad information that can very easily lead to unsafe conditions and situations if heeded) is the safety issue that was being indirectly referred to (nothing to do with the tires and not at all stated the in OP, my bad again). The non-acceptance of "out there" ideas (like paneling the rear windows) isn't surprising in the least (hence the "crazy idea" thread titles); those sorts of reactions are pretty common across most things... My "thin" tires on my "hitler transportation box" (I've honestly never heard that one before, and I've heard a lot of them) were thin in the "worn" sense versus the narrow sense, though they were definitely thin in the narrow sense as well (there's not a lot of room for anything else, especially in the rear with the skirts and the swing axles). I'll not bother with the other personal attacks/flames etc. Some might be merited, some are gut reactions (on par with the OP). Again, I apologize for my tone. I'm conflicted about going back and editing given the following three pages... Context would completely go out the window, and the thread is pretty much trash now anyway. Please consider the post on the merits of the information presented over the way it's presented.

I'm glad you manned up and offered an apology, but regarding the part in RED, you've once again condescended to basically the entire forum. Cue foot back in mouth, please.

If we're all so full of ****, what are you doing here?? Yeah, we joke around, and sometimes we give BS answers...... to the threads that are posing questions that have been answered 100's of times. To the threads that are asking questions that have already been answered in the stickies @ the top of the 3rd gen forum. The same stickies that contain more useful information than a new owner could take in over the course of a week. You would have realized all of this if you had spent a reasonable amount of time on the forum and got a feel for it, instead of speaking out of place and trying to impress everyone with your overly wordy RE-posts.

RE the part in BLUE, as I said before, all you did was essentially copy and paste what was in the expedition portal thread, add a few of your own insults and a good helping of passive agressiveness, and re-post here. Nobody owes you any credit for that post, and if someone wants information with merit, all they have to do is click the link and go to the expedition portal thread to see some ORIGINAL CONTENT that someone put some hard work and personal effort into researching and posting.

....

PS... Personally, I'm glad that 04rnr quoted spectre's original post. Context is priceless in threads like this one, and for accountability's sake that quote was worthwhile in case spectre decides to go back and do a ninja edit.

The really annoying quotes are the ones where someone quotes an entire write-up worth of pictures to ask, "Hey is that YOUR dog in the background?"
 
OP is an idiot.

Have you even ran either tire size your post is about?! You seem to quote every long winded article and stand behind your expo portal bible without any real world application.

You can quote until your fingers are raw, but I doubt you have any real evidence to back up any of this BS your spewing.

I can take my 4R with 285s up most trails my wheeler runs. Not with the same amount of confidence of course, but id like to see you follow.
 
This thread needs some pictures.

DSC_0931.jpg~original


I run 255's (70's) Michelin LTX because it is what came with it when i bought my 4runner. Being the cheap bas**** that I am, I am trying to get every mile out of them before changing them out.

I have a set of 285' Mud terrains on steelies that I switch out when I go wheeling.

I don't daily drive with them because they are noisey as hell. I also don't to wear them out either.

2012-07-21_09-23-43_950.jpg~original


Never the less, opinions, everyone has one.

Here is my opinion - we should raise the voting age to 21 or lower the drinking age to 18. If they are responsible enough to vote at 18 then they are responsible enough to drink and vice verse if they are not responsible to drink at 18 then they are not responsible enough to vote either.
 
I like my skinny tires. I do drive roughly 50 miles every day though, and that is if I am ONLY driving to work and back.
 
Late to the party on this thread.
I guess I'm hosed with my 295/75/16's. Well those are going in the trash bin. Wonder if my 205/45/17's from my 2 seater will work on the 4runner? Not much volume to air down, but should corner like a MFer.:roadkill:
 
OP is an idiot.

Have you even ran either tire size your post is about?! You seem to quote every long winded article and stand behind your expo portal bible without any real world application.

You can quote until your fingers are raw, but I doubt you have any real evidence to back up any of this BS your spewing.

I can take my 4R with 285s up most trails my wheeler runs. Not with the same amount of confidence of course, but id like to see you follow.

Im betting he wont answer...
Im also betting he doesnt or hasnt even been wheeling...
 
I'm glad you manned up and offered an apology, but regarding the part in RED, you've once again condescended to basically the entire forum. Cue foot back in mouth, please.

I'm with BigFishAllDay...
I was prepared to finish reading the thread and request everyone chill out. The OP presented some interesting information, albeit not in the warmest fashion, and I'd prefer to focus on the technical content rather than getting my panties in a bunch.

Then I got to the quoted reply and must say...
It's worse than the original. You've had time to review what you said previously and came out swinging. You may have started out (supposedly) offering a mea culpa, but you certainly didn't finish that way. Not a good way to endear yourself to relative strangers.

Back on topic...
I've run 255s on my past rig, a Dodge Ram 3/4 V10 4x4. Loved them. Obviously was never going to float that truck, so I went for clearance and the ability to get down to solid grip.

The issue of availability is the biggest driver keeping so many from 255s (and 235s). If someone can point me to good options in those size, I'd love the info as I'd like a set of 235s for street duty and a set of 255s for off-road.

Thx,
Jon
 
I'm new to the forum but not new to 4runners or wheeling. Regardless of op's tone, spewing regurgitated info from various internet sources means nothing without real life experience. Before coming here and throwing your infinite tire knowledge around, go out and actual test both on your truck.


Oh and I prefer a wider tire, especially in the high rockies come winter. But that's just the opinion of a girl who's lived in colorado her entire life.
 
"Insulting people who choose a different size tire than you is just stupid and ignorant."

"ugly ass pizza cutters"

"255s look re****ed on 4runners."

If that's not an insult to those running 255's I don't know what is, the above also seems a bit contradictory.

Now, I couldn't tell what word you were referring to so I looked up many that fit.

reburied
recorded
recorked
recurred
recurved
reearned
refereed
referred
reforged
reformed
regarded
regorged
remarked
remerged
reparked
reperked
reported
reserved
resorbed
resorted
resurged
re****ed
retorted
returfed
returned
reverbed
reversed
reverted
rewarded
rewarmed
reworded
reworked


Seems only one word works in this instance, based on your feeling of "ugly ass pizza cutters".

These pictures are of my "mentally challenged" 4Runner with "ugly ass pizza cutters". It may look "re****ed" to some, but it wheels awesome, and I think it looks great. And I LOVE Pizza!!! I guess I have two strikes against me............. :(


IMG_0327.jpg


IMG_0307.jpg


IMG_0329.jpg


IMG_0333.jpg
 
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