3 Liter Diesel for the 4Runner

[mtnracer]

Hi All,

I just looked around on the Toyota Germany website (www.toyota.de) and found a truck called the Land Cruiser (http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/land_cruiser/index.asp) which is available as a 2 door and 4 door model with either the 4.0 V6 gas or a 3.0 Diesel I4 engine.

It looks like the German Land Cruiser is equivalent to our 4Runner and the Land Cruiser 100 (http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/land_cruiser_100/index.asp) is the same as the standard Land Cruiser here.

Now the interesting thing is the 3.0 Liter Turbo Diesel that they offer: 300ft/lbs of torque and about 26 miles per gallon combined highway and city driving. That is what we need in the US. I think we should start some sort of email campaign to petition Toyota to bring that engine to America. Could we start something like that through this forum? Anyone have experience with that?

With Gas prices going higher every day, a 26mpg 4Runner (Full Time 4WD, by the way) sounds pretty darn good. Any comments appreciated.

 

[toybox]

Hi All,

I just looked around on the Toyota Germany website (www.toyota.de) and found a truck called the Land Cruiser (http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/land_cruiser/index.asp) which is available as a 2 door and 4 door model with either the 4.0 V6 gas or a 3.0 Diesel I4 engine.

It looks like the German Land Cruiser is equivalent to our 4Runner and the Land Cruiser 100 (http://www.toyota.de/cars/new_cars/land_cruiser_100/index.asp) is the same as the standard Land Cruiser here.

Now the interesting thing is the 3.0 Liter Turbo Diesel that they offer: 300ft/lbs of torque and about 26 miles per gallon combined highway and city driving. That is what we need in the US. I think we should start some sort of email campaign to petition Toyota to bring that engine to America. Could we start something like that through this forum? Anyone have experience with that?

With Gas prices going higher every day, a 26mpg 4Runner (Full Time 4WD, by the way) sounds pretty darn good. Any comments appreciated.

I just recently read a quote from a senior offical at Toyota and he said diesal is not a direction Toyota will be going. Point blank he put it. I imagine Toyota is putting all their efforts and money in new hybrids.

 

[mtnracer]

Re: Re: 3 Liter Diesel for the 4Runner

I just recently read a quote from a senior offical at Toyota and he said diesal is not a direction Toyota will be going. Point blank he put it. I imagine Toyota is putting all their efforts and money in new hybrids.

That would REALLY suck if that is true. Again: PETITION!!!!!!!!

 

[T4RMatt]

I dont think we will be seeing a diesel in the U.S. 4Runner any time soon. Unfortunately, the efforts required to get the current engine available overseas to meet the emmisions requirements we face here would be too great to be feasible. However, I would think if Toyota wants to stay competitive in the fullsize truck market they will have to introduce a diesel engine for the Tundra. If this engine becomes emissions compliant then it may make sense to offer a similair unit in the Tacoma, 4Runner, and FJ Cruiser. However, I have no idea when this would be doable.

 

[fotorunner]

Re: Re: Re: 3 Liter Diesel for the 4Runner

That would REALLY suck if that is true. Again: PETITION!!!!!!!!

Amen......I'm not ready for a hybred T4R

 

[sketch1]

Amen......I'm not ready for a hybred T4R

I sure am... I would trade mine in for a hybrid in a second (gas/electric hybrid, not gas/ethanol)

 

[OUTRNNR]

The diesel fuel distributed in the US is not clean enough to burn in most European diesel engines, too much sulfur. This is why we don't see as many diesel models here as the rest of the world. Besides, from what I've heard the 3.0L diesel is a dog in the 4Runner anyway something like 180 HP and 0-60 times around 10 seconds, now what fun is that?

Hybrids are cleaner still, provide as good or better fuel economy than diesel and are more powerful. This is why they are sticking with hybrid technology.

 

[JMT529]

I dont think we will be seeing a diesel in the U.S. 4Runner any time soon. Unfortunately, the efforts required to get the current engine available overseas to meet the emmisions requirements we face here would be too great to be feasible. However, I would think if Toyota wants to stay competitive in the fullsize truck market they will have to introduce a diesel engine for the Tundra. If this engine becomes emissions compliant then it may make sense to offer a similair unit in the Tacoma, 4Runner, and FJ Cruiser. However, I have no idea when this would be doable.

Toyota has already announced that the new Tundra will have a diesel engine as an option. Maybe in a few years, that engine will be available on a 5th gen 4Runner.

 

[mtnracer]

The diesel fuel distributed in the US is not clean enough to burn in most European diesel engines, too much sulfur. This is why we don't see as many diesel models here as the rest of the world. Besides, from what I've heard the 3.0L diesel is a dog in the 4Runner anyway something like 180 HP and 0-60 times around 10 seconds, now what fun is that?

Hybrids are cleaner still, provide as good or better fuel economy than diesel and are more powerful. This is why they are sticking with hybrid technology.

It is true that Diesel fuel in the US is currently not clean enough (too much sulfur) but that is about to change:

From www.dieselnet.com:
2 June 2006: The transition to ultra low sulfur diesel fuel has started in the United States. As of yesterday, 80% of diesel fuel produced by refineries or imported for use in on-road vehicles must contain no more than 15 ppm sulfur. The retail level deadline is October 15, 2006. The ultra low sulfur diesel will enable advanced exhaust aftertreatment technologies in future diesel engines, such as the catalytic particulate filters which are being introduced on 2007 heavy-duty truck and bus engines. The EPA and the DTF are both calling it a clean diesel milestone.

All automakers should be able to introduce diesels from their European models for the 2007 / 2008 model year.

 

[Kmvreter]

Unfortunately, the efforts required to get the current engine available overseas to meet the emmisions requirements we face here would be too great to be feasible. However, I would think if Toyota wants to stay competitive in the fullsize truck market they will have to introduce a diesel engine for the Tundra..

You have it backwards. European diesels are made to tighter emission standards than in N.A.

The Tundra diesel will be a large engine for their dually version, currently planned for 2010 MY, to compete with the other guy's F-Series and HD work trucks.

 

[JungleJim]

You have it backwards. European diesels are made to tighter emission standards than in N.A.

Actually, you have it backwards. Europe does not hold it's diesels to as high of a standard as the U.S., plus the U.S. standards are about to get even higher. That's why some company's, such as V.W., will not be selling diesels here for the beginning of the '07 model year. They need time get their diesel's to meet the higher U.S. standards.

It's more expensive to get diesels to meet the U.S. standards than to meet European standards.

I am all for more diesels here in the U.S.. I would purchase a diesel 4Runner, even if it was a little slower (who buys an SUV for speed?).

 

[Koz]

In this future vehicle they talk about a 4.4 twin turbo.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?threadid=20697

I've heard that the diesel fuel itself, in this country, will change next year. (Cleaner burning)

Koz

 

[Jeff Kleb]

The manufacturers have done miracles when it comes to reducing emissions with diesel engines - both in cars and trucks of all sizes. While particulate matter is the biggest obstacle remaining, diesel engines are not the sluggish, smoke-belching monsters they were just a few short years ago.

All heavy truck engines with a 2007 build date (not including the 2006 engines in early-release 2007 trucks) are supposed to run on that new ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) fuel that will be in all tanks across the country by January. I reckon that light-duty diesel engines used in passenger cars are going to be changed as well.

What remains to be seen is how the older truck engines are going to run on the ULSD. Many truckers worry about reduced fuel economy or lubrication problems brought about by reduction in sulfur content or possible changes in cetane ratings. Cetane is essentially the opposite of octane, since a diesel engine relies on compression ignition (knocking) and a gasoline engine could be destroyed by it! I drive a heavy-duty commercial truck for a living and have been trying to brush up on this issue as much as possible, especially since my company truck is a 2000 International that is not scheduled to be replaced for another two or three years. GULP!

But as far as Toyota and other manufacturers are concerned, the car market is slightly different here in the USA than in Europe or Asia. Diesel fuel is often significantly cheaper than unleaded gasoline in other countries because of their tax structure. When the added miles per gallon is figured into the equation, it is a no-brainer why diesel vehicles are sold in such high percentages in some markets outside the USA. Perhaps those drivers are not as demanding as we are for high performance, either. It seems part of our horsepower-hungry culture involves wanting faster acceleration and higher speeds -- which reduces our miles per gallon.

With higher fuel prices, that may be changing. Once the bugs are worked out and the ULSD issue is over with, there may be a surge in diesel sales here in the USA. Only time will tell. I would definitely consider a high-torque diesel engine in a 4Runner. 26 mpg or so might be worth sacrificing some acceleration, especially if the engine is still fairly quiet and proves to be as reliable as other Toyota powerplants have throughout the years.

I don't think I would buy one the first year, though, as I would want a "proven" design under the hood.
:bigok:


P.S. I read that Mercedes has once again started offering diesel engines in the US market, after a five-year hiatus. Good for them! It would not surprise me if the Daimler-Chrysler merger will help some diesel engines find their way into Jeeps as well.

 

[Offroader]

Here in the Caribbean country where I live, Diesel fuel is 30% cheaper than gasoline.

My diesel 4Runner has a decent performance, though not as quick accelerating as the 4-liter V6.

Since Toyota stopped offering the 4Runner with a diesel engine this year, I'm constantly getting offers to sell my 2-Year old T4R for 20% more of what I paid for it.

My Diesel T4R has a similar fuel expense of a 4-Cylinder Honda Accord.

 

[boston_kevin]

I would seriously doubt you will see a major introduction of diesel into the US. You have fuel refineries now targeting biodiesel and ethanol blends, the auto makers keeping their pulse on hybrids, and other groups pushing hydorgen based cells (which are actually very close to being commercially available). Diesel still has a higher particulate matter output than any gasoline engine, but Europe, Asia, and other parts of the world do not have the ratio of vehicles to people that the US does (maybe 1 vehicle to 20 driving age people outside of the US versus 1 vehicle to 2-3 people of driving age in the US). With a higher density of vehicles, it is important to reduce the particulate emissions as low as possible (and now other emissions as well).

 

[Offroader]

I agree, I don't think Diesel will become widely used in the U.S., due to pollution.

The problem with sulfur is that when mixed with water in the clouds, Sulfuric Acid is produced, hence the term "Acid Rain".

Common Rail engines are dramatically cleaner than older diesel engines, though.

The problem in the U.S. is that Diesel, a less refined (cheaper) fuel than gasoline is sold at a higher price, due to taxes to discourage its use and reduce pollution.

I have to admit, though, that outside the U.S., you have to use the A/C on recirculation mode, due to exterior air contamination.

 

[mtnracer]

The new diesel engines available in Europe are not even in the same ballpark as the Diesels we have here.

Modern diesels are VERY quiet, have low emissions and great gas mileage. All cars, including luxury types in Europe (BMW 7 Series, MB S Class, Audi A8) are available with diesel engines that outperform the gas engines in many categories.

I can't think of any good reason not to sell diesels in the US, but plenty of bad ones. After all, the gas companies would have to invest in infrastructure upgrades and refineries. As long as the american people are satisfied with current gas engines and are willing to pay at the pump there is no reason to bring diesel to the market en masse.

It is up to us to push for the modern diesels available elsewhere. If we don't ask for them, they won't supply. If you think a gas/electric hybrid is great, how about a diesel/electric hybrid?

My 2C

 

[Jeff Kleb]

If you think a gas/electric hybrid is great, how about a diesel/electric hybrid?

While I doubt it is a "hyrbid" in anyones's book, train locomotives are diesel/electric. The diesel fuel is burned to generate electricity that powers huge electric motors. I know someone here could explain why they do it that way, but there must be some valid reason.
:awais:

And to think that they used to think coal and steam was the best source of powering a choo-choo.
:beer:

Now wouldn't it be cool to have a Mr. Fusion thing on your car like they did in the Back To The Future movie? Just throw in some household trash and a few banana peels and you would be good to go!!

 

[Uneek]

While I doubt it is a "hyrbid" in anyones's book, train locomotives are diesel/electric. The diesel fuel is burned to generate electricity that powers huge electric motors. I know someone here could explain why they do it that way, but there must be some valid reason.
:awais:

And to think that they used to think coal and steam was the best source of powering a choo-choo.
:beer:

Now wouldn't it be cool to have a Mr. Fusion thing on your car like they did in the Back To The Future movie? Just throw in some household trash and a few banana peels and you would be good to go!!

I don't know the specifics with a locomotive, but probably the same logic applies. For earth movers and giant dump trucks (life sized Tonkas), they use a hybrid diesel/electric system because it eliminates the need for a transmission with the variable speed from the electric motors, cutting down weight and extra mechanical components.

They probably could do a Mr. Fusion, by burning the methane gas when trash is burned or from sewage treatment plants.

 

[Northof49]

Sounds slow......no thanks. How bout 400hp gasser V8 instead?