3rd Gen 4WD Modes

[massey74]

Alright guys, I know there are tons of threads about the 4WD systems on 3rd gen runners. I have read A LOT of the info from multiple websites, but I am having trouble understanding the capabilities and/or benefits between the 2000 and 2001 4WD modes and the different diff lockers. I know how each system works (i.e. 00 rear diff locker=both rear wheels spin together; and 01 center diff locker sends equal power to the front and rear), but I am trying to understand the benefit of having one over the other. I am looking at a few different trucks, mostly 2000 and 2001 Limited 4WD. I will be using the rig mostly for a DD, but I do want to get into light to moderate wheeling.

My questions are:

1. As a DD, which 4WD system (99-00 Limited vs 01-02 Limited) will work better on the roads when it is raining/snowing/iced over, for me and for when my lady is driving the truck?

2. Which system is better for newbie wheeling in the mud/snow/trails? From reading threads, most people seem to recommend the rear diff lock, and I have read about some people having trouble with the VSC/TRAC system and having to add a switch to disable it.

Others say a 2001 w/ center diff lock is just as capable as an 00 with a rear diff locker. Some recommend an 01 with a rear diff locker mod as the best of both worlds. I would certainly consider adding a rear diff locker to a 01/02, but I don't want to make any crazy mods or spend a ton of $$$. And staying with a stock set up would be ideal.

Anyhow, if someone could help me understand the benefit of having one over the other under different driving conditions that would be great. And any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

P.S.- is it just me, or are most of the 3rd gen runners overpriced? Seems like all the local sales are quite a bit more than the KBB/Edmunds values.

 

[theizzardking]

i'll just save you the explanation and tell you to get a 99 limited with multi-mode and a rear diff lock, is should do anything and everything your looking to accomplish. plus you might get a 1 inch lift right from the box if you find one with the magic coils.

multi-mode has awd,(for rainy/snowy roads) 4wd, for (very snowy roads and muddy off road stuff) and the diff lock for minor rock crawling and more hard core 4x4 stuff, there isn't a more complete, rugged system from the factory on any mid sized suv out there. you want more then that then your looking at modding with dual t cases,sas and so on and so forth.

 

[theizzardking]

they are not over priced they are the most reliable and longest lasting of almost any suv ever made, hence the resale value, i have driven jeeps for years becuase i couldn't afford a 4runner.

there is not real difference between a center diff lock and the 4wd on the '99 it just locks the rear wheel to the front wheels giving you true 4wd the same as the 4wd setting on the '99


read this esp. the part about awd vs. 4wd the '99 has both along with factory rear locker

Four-wheel drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and read this to understand why a locker is still needed with awd and 4wd systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_differential

even in so called 4wd you still only get traction to 2 tires at a time depending on the situation

 

[brian2sun]

Alright guys, I know there are tons of threads about the 4WD systems on 3rd gen runners. I have read A LOT of the info from multiple websites, but I am having trouble understanding the capabilities and/or benefits between the 2000 and 2001 4WD modes and the different diff lockers. I know how each system works (i.e. 00 rear diff locker=both rear wheels spin together; and 01 center diff locker sends equal power to the front and rear), but I am trying to understand the benefit of having one over the other. I am looking at a few different trucks, mostly 2000 and 2001 Limited 4WD. I will be using the rig mostly for a DD, but I do want to get into light to moderate wheeling.

My questions are:

1. As a DD, which 4WD system (99-00 Limited vs 01-02 Limited) will work better on the roads when it is raining/snowing/iced over, for me and for when my lady is driving the truck?

For most winter on-road conditions, the center diff just makes it nicer with the AWD feature for moderate snow, rain, patchy ice. It's for when you don't want full 4x4 and because it will bind up the t-case like when it's 90% dry and snow patches here and there.

2. Which system is better for newbie wheeling in the mud/snow/trails? From reading threads, most people seem to recommend the rear diff lock, and I have read about some people having trouble with the VSC/TRAC system and having to add a switch to disable it.

The rear diff lock is much better for off roading. People have a hard time understanding that the center diff helps on road only. It gives absolutely no help for off roading because when it's locked it's just normal 4x4. Unlocked is AWD and that's isn't going to be better than 4x4 on the trails.

Others say a 2001 w/ center diff lock is just as capable as an 00 with a rear diff locker.

They couldn't be more wrong.

Some recommend an 01 with a rear diff locker mod as the best of both worlds.

Yes, however the rear locker wasn't available after '00 so that's not possible without a retro-fit or installing an aftermarket locker.

I would certainly consider adding a rear diff locker to a 01/02, but I don't want to make any crazy mods or spend a ton of $$$. And staying with a stock set up would be ideal.

The only models that can have the best of both worlds from the factory (i.e. the multi-mode t-case w/ center diff locker AND rear locker) are the '99 and '00 LIMITEDS only. But only some have the rear locker. The vast majority just have the multi-mode only.

^^^^

 

[Martinjmpr]

I think Brian covered everything.

The only thing I would add is that if your vehicle already has a multi-mode T-case but no rear locker, you can add a rear locker, either a lunchbox or an ARB, for around $1000 or less.

OTOH, I don't think it's really feasible to add a multi-mode transfer case to a vehicle (like mine) that didn't come with one from the factory.

Technically, I suppose, you could do it but between sourcing the parts, the labor, and figuring out the electronics, it would probably cost more than the value of the vehicle to do it.

As much as I love my high-riding 1999 SR5, if I was shopping again I'd probably hold out for a Limited so I could get the multi-mode T-case AND the rear locker.

 

[brian2sun]

I think Brian covered everything.

The only thing I would add is that if your vehicle already has a multi-mode T-case but no rear locker, you can add a rear locker, either a lunchbox or an ARB, for around $1000 or less.

OTOH, I don't think it's really feasible to add a multi-mode transfer case to a vehicle (like mine) that didn't come with one from the factory.

Technically, I suppose, you could do it but between sourcing the parts, the labor, and figuring out the electronics, it would probably cost more than the value of the vehicle to do it.

As much as I love my high-riding 1999 SR5, if I was shopping again I'd probably hold out for a Limited so I could get the multi-mode T-case AND the rear locker.

Yeah, x2. It would be difficult to swap t-cases - at least harder than retro-fitting a rear locker. Another option would be to get a '99 or '00 Limited OR any model '01 or '02 so you get the multi-mode and then get an ARB like Martinjmpr said. IF you want to go the cheap route, you can install an Aussie yourself and it costs ~$300. The draw back of that (or any ratcheting locker) is it clicks and makes noise as it ratchets. Some people don't care and some people get annoyed by it.

 

[massey74]

Thanks for the fast responses guys.

Yesterday I was looking at a 01 Limited 4WD with center diff lock. The truck has 152,000 miles (a little more than I would prefer, with limited maintenance records). Overall its in pretty good shape. The interior, body, and undercarriage look really good for a 9 year old rig. Sticker price was $9,995. I offered $9,100 for an "out the door price" and they wouldn't bite. My offer was higher than the average between private party and MSRP price from KBB and Edmunds plus TTT, which I thought was fair. I called back today to see what they would sell for and he told me $10,400 ($9,300 +TTT) out the door. I thought that was a little high, considering the mileage, lack of maintenance records, and that it does not have a tow package. What do you guys think?

I actually saw a 99 Limited yesterday also. The owner of the dealership was out of town, so I could only look in the window. I did not see the RR DIFF LOCK button next to the steering wheel. Does that mean its not the truck izzardking was talking about? It has 116,000 miles, and is in descent shape (no where near as nice as the 01, but much better mileage). Sticker price was $9,999. I’m guessing they would budge a little for a cash buyer. What would be a good deal for that rig?

 

[theizzardking]

no it's not and also look for the push button 4wd on the side of the second shifter to make sure it has the multi mode t case on the 99's, the locking rear diff is about 1K to add on for a dd i would avoid the auto locker you can read why in the link i posted above about the difference between an arb selectable locker and a auto locker like a Detroit

 

[domstriker]

I used to have a Subi with AWD. If one tire was stuck and lost traction, it would be the only one that got power.

So with my '01 4R, would the same thing happen when running 4wd with the center diff unlocked?

Now if the center diff is locked, power is being distributed 50/50 to the front and rear. So wouldn't this mean that if one tire up front lost traction, the rear axle would still get power?

I can think of numerous situations where having the center diff locked is more advantageous than just AWD if this is the case.

 

[theizzardking]

I used to have a Subi with AWD. If one tire was stuck and lost traction, it would be the only one that got power.

So with my '01 4R, would the same thing happen when running 4wd with the center diff unlocked?

Now if the center diff is locked, power is being distributed 50/50 to the front and rear. So wouldn't this mean that if one tire up front lost traction, the rear axle would still get power?

I can think of numerous situations where having the center diff locked is more advantageous than just AWD if this is the case.

yep but the multi mode has both of those systems in there, awd as you described is the push button on the side of the stick and if you move the stick it locks the front to the rear for a 50/50 split but is still only sending power to one side (left to right) and that's where the lockers come in locking the axle with the locker from left to right, so from the box the '99 can be locked 50/50 front to back and locked on the rear axle left to right for 3 wheels spinning in tandem and only the front wheel shifting to the side that's slipping, this is very good if you ever have a wheel lift off the ground in any circumstance.

awd sends power to the wheel that is slipping front or rear
4x4 locks front and back together but still only send power to one wheel on each axle that is slipping

4x4 with lockers is locking the front and back together with the t-case or center diff lock then locking side to side/left to right together with the lockers located in the axle diff/gear housings

the answer can be sooo much more complicated then that but that's really the basics of it without getting into the mechanics of how each make/model achieves these functions.

 

[domstriker]

yep but the multi mode has both of those systems in there, awd as you described is the push button on the side of the stick and if you move the stick it locks the front to the rear for a 50/50 split but is still only sending power to one side (left to right) and that's where the lockers come in locking the axle with the locker from left to right, so from the box the '99 can be locked 50/50 front to back and locked on the rear axle left to right for 3 wheels spinning in tandem and only the front wheel shifting to the side that's slipping, this is very good if you ever have a wheel lift off the ground in any circumstance.

awd sends power to the wheel that is slipping front or rear
4x4 locks front and back together but still only send power to one wheel on each axle that is slipping

4x4 with lockers is locking the front and back together with the t-case or center diff lock then locking side to side/left to right together with the lockers located in the axle diff/gear housings

the answer can be sooo much more complicated then that but that's really the basics of it without getting into the mechanics of how each make/model achieves these functions.

cool. That's what I thought. Thanks

 

[massey74]

Any ideas about the prices for either of the 2 rigs I mentioned above?

 

[massey74]

Alright, I just did a fresh search and I found a 99 Limited, 4WD with the AWD button on the shifter and the rear diff locker. Its got good tires and the carfax shows that the vehicle has had all major maintenance performed. It looks clean, and I have the dealer sending pictures of the undercarriage in the morning. He said he would let it go for $8500.

I just looked up the values under KBB/Edmunds.

KBB Private Party: "Good"-$6950
KBB Suggested Retail - $9300

Edmunds Private Party - $6857
Edmunds Suggested Retail - $8436

I was thinking more like $8000+TTT.

Can anyone give me some suggestions abou these prices? Is it unreasonable to think along the line of the KBB/Edmunds values? I like the truck, but I don't want to overpay.

 

[brian2sun]

Alright, I just did a fresh search and I found a 99 Limited, 4WD with the AWD button on the shifter and the rear diff locker. Its got good tires and the carfax shows that the vehicle has had all major maintenance performed. It looks clean, and I have the dealer sending pictures of the undercarriage in the morning. He said he would let it go for $8500.

I just looked up the values under KBB/Edmunds.

KBB Private Party: "Good"-$6950
KBB Suggested Retail - $9300

Edmunds Private Party - $6857
Edmunds Suggested Retail - $8436

I was thinking more like $8000+TTT.

Can anyone give me some suggestions abou these prices? Is it unreasonable to think along the line of the KBB/Edmunds values? I like the truck, but I don't want to overpay.

I would say $8-8500 is fair if it doesn't have rust issues and has ~130-160K miles.

 

[massey74]

Its got 147,000 miles.

 

[brian2sun]

I say go for it as long as it runs and looks good. I would make sure it's had the timing belt and water pump done at least once otherwise, I'd knock of another $500-$1000.

 

[massey74]

Would the 99 w/ AWD and a rear locker have VSC/TRAC? Would it even matter with all the different modes?

 

[domstriker]

Would the 99 w/ AWD and a rear locker have VSC/TRAC? Would it even matter with all the different modes?

I'm pretty sure '99 has vsc and trac.

As Brian mentioned, check to see if timing belt has been done.

If so, I would offer $8500 out the door.

 

[massey74]

I say go for it as long as it runs and looks good. I would make sure it's had the timing belt and water pump done at least once otherwise, I'd knock of another $500-$1000.

The timing belt/water pump were done at 91K. Hopefully the pictures of the undercarriage look good and there's not too much rust.

 

[theizzardking]

i say that's a good price and your not going to find another 4runner with the off road capability that has out of the box, the '99 with the options you've listed is arguably the best the 3rd gens had to offer from the box, i'm biased though as well since that's what i'm driving, but seriously that year and that set-up has every mode of 4wd you can possibly hope for in one system and will handle just about anything you can throw at it short of extreme rock crawling and hard core offroad, at which point you'd have to start modding pretty much any vehicle. there's also a good chance it came from the factory with a 1 inch coil lift as well which is nice.

i'd say go for it just make sure as with any car all of the normal things have been gone through and checked there aren't many flaws in the 3rd gens like you would have with jeeps and exploders so just make sure she looks and sounds like she's running well and you should be good to go , after driving jeeps since i was 16 and having gone through a number of them i found it strange not to have to check a bunch of tiny random things before buying a truck to make sure it was a good rig, so feel confident that just doing the general things that they check before buying a new car is good enough.

here's a typical check lists

http://www.samarins.com/check/checklist.htm
AIS Used-Car Pre-Purchase Checklist - MSN Autos


also check the 4wd systems in semi deep gravel and the locker can only be engaged when in 4-lo make sure that works as well as most people who had these never even used the locker, when it's your use it every couple of months or so just to make sure it's moving freely, after 10 years with no use there is a chance it could not engage.

****warning*** when testing the locker be in the semi deep gravel and only go straight/-ish no sharp turns you may damage you bind something up other wise.

the push button 4wd on the stick is for hard surfaces and roads feel free to test that on dry pavement doing 60-70 and driving as normal anywhere.

when you move the stick into 4-hi make sure you have slippage in the wheels as the front is locked to the back now and you can damage things by having too much traction.

read this and you'll see what i'm talking about, each wheel follows a different path and must go different speeds when going around a corner (that's what an open differential does) if you have the wheels locked together (closed differential) with no slippage you will bind the truck up and maybe break something

watch the little cartoon on this page to see what i'm talking about

HowStuffWorks "How Differentials Work"