3vze Engine Sound Help!

B

bomhour

New member
Hi All,

I have just reassembled a 93 4 Runner after the head gasket/timing belt were replaced. I have another thread going on that if you are interested in the details. I will let you all know how much it cost once Ive actually got her running. I'm not there yet? So the situation is that I tried to start her up tonight and she sounds like this...(please download one or both of the audio files from the links below). I am pretty inexperienced with listening to an unhealth engine.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmRFFaMGtQb0tGa2NUQw

https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmRFFaMGtmVGFwSHNUQw

btw; when I put the timing belt back on the vehicle and did the hand crank test, the belt slipped but all the timing marks lined up to TDC. I guess that means that the belt adjusted itself when I wasn't applying force to the crank and thats why the marks still line up?

See link to pic.
DSC_2822 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
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That did not sound good at all. Sounds like timing but I heard what sounded like valves hitting a piston when you first started it up or maybe something inside a cylinder. I wouldn't run it any more until I rechecked the timing on the belt plus I would co a compression check also.
 
bomhour said:
Hi All,

I have just reassembled a 93 4 Runner after the head gasket/timing belt were replaced. I have another thread going on that if you are interested in the details. I will let you all know how much it cost once Ive actually got her running. I'm not there yet? So the situation is that I tried to start her up tonight and she sounds like this...(please download one or both of the audio files from the links below). I am pretty inexperienced with listening to an unhealth engine.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmRFFaMGtQb0tGa2NUQw

https://www.yousendit.com/download/T2dmRFFaMGtmVGFwSHNUQw

btw; when I put the timing belt back on the vehicle and did the hand crank test, the belt slipped but all the timing marks lined up to TDC. I guess that means that the belt adjusted itself when I wasn't applying force to the crank and thats why the marks still line up?

See link to pic.
DSC_2822 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Click to expand...

I think I missed the part about the belt slipping while hand cranking. While the most important part is that the marks line up, you should not have any
slippage while turning the engine over. The belt should be fairly tight, similar
to an adjusted fan or alternator belt. Think about it, the belt needs to synch the two cams and the crank, with no deviation, under an immense load, for umpteen starting and running cycles. For the belt to skip a tooth while hand
turning after being tensioned does not sound good or correct. Once you had
the belt adjusted, was there any play in the belt?

Like we discussed last night, I think you have a timing issue, either distributor, crossed wired, or possibly the belt being off. Hard to say. If you
haven't already done so, reset to TDC, either tapping the key or using a wrench, then reset the distributor with rotor pointing to #1 cyl, check your FSM for firing order, make sure your wires are routed correctly. Find the timing light and see where your timing is set. If you confirm
that all of the above is correct and it still runs poorly, then you may want to
consider pulling the timing cover off and rechecking the belt.

As for valves hitting the pistons, I understand from members of this forum that the 3.0 is a non-interference motor. Meaning the valves do not enter the
cylinders and would not contact the pistons if the belt breaks or if the timing is off. So you are not damaging the motor, its just running like crap.
If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I think it's accurate.

As always, this is just my opinion.
Good Luck
 
mikedks said:
I think I missed the part about the belt slipping while hand cranking. While the most important part is that the marks line up, you should not have any
slippage while turning the engine over. The belt should be fairly tight, similar
to an adjusted fan or alternator belt. Think about it, the belt needs to synch the two cams and the crank, with no deviation, under an immense load, for umpteen starting and running cycles. For the belt to skip a tooth while hand
turning after being tensioned does not sound good or correct. Once you had
the belt adjusted, was there any play in the belt?

Like we discussed last night, I think you have a timing issue, either distributor, crossed wired, or possibly the belt being off. Hard to say. If you
haven't already done so, reset to TDC, either tapping the key or using a wrench, then reset the distributor with rotor pointing to #1 cyl, check your FSM for firing order, make sure your wires are routed correctly. Find the timing light and see where your timing is set. If you confirm
that all of the above is correct and it still runs poorly, then you may want to
consider pulling the timing cover off and rechecking the belt.

As for valves hitting the pistons, I understand from members of this forum that the 3.0 is a non-interference motor. Meaning the valves do not enter the
cylinders and would not contact the pistons if the belt breaks or if the timing is off. So you are not damaging the motor, its just running like crap.
If I'm wrong, someone correct me, but I think it's accurate.

As always, this is just my opinion.
Good Luck
Click to expand...

I put some gas in the tank and magically, she ran! I did also find that the timing belt was off by ONE tooth. It only took about 30 minutes to completely dissasemble the front of the engine and check. I also bought a timing gun which was very helpful in learning how to adjust the timing. Thanks for that suggestion, I'm not sure I would of figured that part out. tomorrow I have to install & fill the radiator, bleed the clutch and put the plates on...test drive!!!

thank you,
 
93 4runner idle. - YouTube

Not there yet. I did get this 3vze to run but I have not had a test drive yet. I am having an issue setting the idle and timing. the video should give you most of the details but I will describe them too. the truck starts up great and runs smooth when I have my foot on the gas. when I let my foot off the gas she bogs way down and stalls. So I have not been able to set the timing properly and therefore have not been able to adjust the idle. When I set the timing with my timing light to 10 BTDC the rpms drop way down and it runs rough. Does the accelerator cable have anything to do with the idle speed? Please let me know what you think I need to do next?

thanks,
 
Your throttle body is exactly like the one I just put into my 1st Gen, and I was wondering what the extra shape on the top of this TB was because it doesn't match my original TB .. the extra shape I'm referring to is the top of your TB which has a black bar attached to it with the throttle cable connecting to it and going clear the hell over to driver's side of the engine compartment? wtf is that all about?

Can you explain that set-up? I'm wondering if my 1st Gen might not be set up correctly now, like a previous owner maybe jimmy-rigged.

My throttle cable "spool" is also different than yours, in that mine is only the lower half of what yours is. Yours allows the throttle cable to be wrapped completely around it, then it extends clear over to the driver's side of the engine compartment.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like you are right there. If it were me, I would go over
Every vacuum line and connection. Maybe make sure the MAF is connected
Properly. More times than not when you get it running after the rebuild, something is crossed or unplugged. Simple first, always my advice. Step back, breathe, then dig in again. If not any of the above, then I would tell you to pull the FSM and start checking idle sensors and TPS and all the other junk.

Good Luck
 
Ok, I got it running smooth by disconnecting one of the vacuum hoses from the plastic triple inlet connector on the passenger side of the intake plenum (see photo). She is running really great now but is overheating after about 10 minutes of driving around normally. I definetly had a bit of air in the system. So I burped the top coolant hose for a while and the temp came down. Drove some more, and it started getting hot again. Is this normal for a car that has just been filled with fluids? When she was hot there was a puff of steam coming from the back of the intake plenum (see linked photo). I'm so close now. Hopefully this is the last issue. BTW, that was my first test drive of the truck and all other systems were working, breaks, tranny, shifting, electrical etc.:biggrin2:

Hot engine problem | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
First you created a vacuum leak. Did you cap the vacuum tree off after you pulled the vacuum line? If you didn't cap it, it will cause the idle to go up. It will lean the engine out due to getting more air than needed.

I know you are messing with your timing. Did you make sure you have correct firing order?

Your thermostat might be going out.

Steam from your heater core connection? If so inspect the hoses, and clamps. Replace as necessary. If it is a leak, then the coolant system isn't holding the correct pressure. Could also cause over heating.
 
Last edited:
GonOvr said:
First you created a vacuum leak. Did you cap the vacuum tree off after you pulled the vacuum line? If you didn't cap it, it will cause the idle to go up. It will lean the engine out due to getting more air than needed.

I know you are messing with your timing. Did you make sure you have correct firing order?

Your thermostat might be going out.

Steam from your heater core connection? If so inspect the hoses, and clamps. Replace as necessary. If it is a leak, then the coolant system isn't holding the correct pressure. Could also cause over heating.
Click to expand...

the thermostat is brand new and the jiggler valve is at the 12o'clock position. the firing order is correct too. I read a bunch of posts about air in the coolant system. I will try bleeding the system and check all my vacuum hose routes tonight and see if that helps.

thanks for your reply.
 
Last edited:
SUBTEGRAL said:
Your throttle body is exactly like the one I just put into my 1st Gen, and I was wondering what the extra shape on the top of this TB was because it doesn't match my original TB .. the extra shape I'm referring to is the top of your TB which has a black bar attached to it with the throttle cable connecting to it and going clear the hell over to driver's side of the engine compartment? wtf is that all about?

Can you explain that set-up? I'm wondering if my 1st Gen might not be set up correctly now, like a previous owner maybe jimmy-rigged.

My throttle cable "spool" is also different than yours, in that mine is only the lower half of what yours is. Yours allows the throttle cable to be wrapped completely around it, then it extends clear over to the driver's side of the engine compartment.
Click to expand...

You should reference someone's pics that has a 1st gen. You can also do a google image search and find lots of pics on the web.

I'm driving a 93 runner...Its a second Gen and is therefore bound to be quite different. There are several pictures of my engine at the flickr link below. I'm no mechanic...hopefully one of the guru's on these forums can answer your questions better. You might start a new thread aimed at addressing your question. At this point I'm not sure how many people are following this thread.

Hot engine problem | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
Last edited:
SUBTEGRAL said:
the extra shape I'm referring to is the top of your TB which has a black bar attached to it with the throttle cable connecting to it and going clear the hell over to driver's side of the engine compartment? wtf is that all about?.
Click to expand...

I believe that is the cruise control.
 
Steam should be fairly easy to track down, there's a bunch of coolant bypass hoses back there, shouldn't take long to find the culprit.

I'm in agreement with GonOvr on the overheating, may have a stuck thermostat or air in the system. Cooling system on this vehicle is basic, I would guess one of the two is your issue. Stupid question, are you sure you put the thermostat in correctly? its been known to happen.

Can't really help you on the vacuum issue, beyond my knowledge base.
 
mikedks said:
Steam should be fairly easy to track down, there's a bunch of coolant bypass hoses back there, shouldn't take long to find the culprit.

I'm in agreement with GonOvr on the overheating, may have a stuck thermostat or air in the system. Cooling system on this vehicle is basic, I would guess one of the two is your issue. Stupid question, are you sure you put the thermostat in correctly? its been known to happen.

Can't really help you on the vacuum issue, beyond my knowledge base.
Click to expand...

I installed the thermostat with the jiggler valve at the 12o'clock position and the spring on the engine side of the gasket. That was how it came out of the vehicle and how the diagrams indicated. I'm pretty sure there is air in the system because the overheating has been starting when I'm off the gas. Some others have indicated that this was due to air pockets.

I'm gonna recheck all of the vacuum hoses too. that should be pretty simple to fix. Will let you know what I find. Off to the auto parts store to by some antifreeze.:barf:
 
Here's how to time a 3vze, I just did it Saturday with no gun
First loosen the tensioner
There should be white marks on the cam pulleys, turn them straight up
On the crank Pully there should be numbers, 5 10 5 0 5 put the mark on the second zero, pull the timing belt from the crank tight to the first cam on the right? Underneath the bearing, and tight to the second cam, put the tensioner back in, and bam. That was on a 93 3vze that had a hydroloc tensioner,
 
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