3VZE Timing belt issue

[KHoffRunner]

I'm back to T4R since peacing out of the 3rd gen section but now I'm working on my father's '92 3.0 5 speed, I'm doing the TB, WP, valve covers, and a few other miscellaneous stuff while I'm in there.

I'm putting everything back together and the top left cam's TDC is in between strokes while the drivers side's TDC falls at the bottom of a stroke perfectly. I noticed the top left passenger cam was at the roughly 10 o'clock position when I took the belt off originally.

Everything I've read is that it should all be TDC, but I feel like the timing would be off if I set one at TDC in between a stroke?

I appreciate any help!

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Did you use the timing marks on the belt to line up the camshafts? The manual should show you where each of the three marks are at. Cams should be with their marks pointing near the two bolts at the 12 O' clock position, install belt on crank first making sure the inner marks line up (on gear against the block), install balancer and turn to 0º timing marks. Install Left hand cam gear and slip belt on, checking to make sure mark on belt lines up to marks on gear and gear lines up to mark on engine. Do same with right hand gear and install a bunch of other stuff, set tensioner, pull pin rotate it 360º, make sure cams still line up when crank is at 0º.

NOTE! Left hand and Right hand on toyota engines are as you are sitting in the driver's seat! Left hand is actually the right cam gear when staring at the front of the engine! Basically, work counter-clockwise from crank.

TSRM links are at the top of the classics section if you need it for reference. the '93 manual should cover the 3vze timing removal/installation.

And, fyi, the cams can be slightly off depending on how many times you've had it resurfaced. It should not affect the cams being that far off though. I know there's a thread on actual numbers, but cannot remember where it was now.

 

[KHoffRunner]

Did you use the timing marks on the belt to line up the camshafts? The manual should show you where each of the three marks are at. Cams should be with their marks pointing near the two bolts at the 12 O' clock position, install belt on crank first making sure the inner marks line up (on gear against the block), install balancer and turn to 0º timing marks. Install Left hand cam gear and slip belt on, checking to make sure mark on belt lines up to marks on gear and gear lines up to mark on engine. Do same with right hand gear and install a bunch of other stuff, set tensioner, pull pin rotate it 360º, make sure cams still line up when crank is at 0º.

NOTE! Left hand and Right hand on toyota engines are as you are sitting in the driver's seat! Left hand is actually the right cam gear when staring at the front of the engine! Basically, work counter-clockwise from crank.

TSRM links are at the top of the classics section if you need it for reference. the '93 manual should cover the 3vze timing removal/installation.

And, fyi, the cams can be slightly off depending on how many times you've had it resurfaced. It should not affect the cams being that far off though. I know there's a thread on actual numbers, but cannot remember where it was now.

Finally I found a FSM that wasn't a broken link! So, I have everything lined up and what not, its just in order to get my passenger side cam at TDC pointed to 12 O'clock I have to turn the cam it losses compression at the 1 o'clock and I turn it counter clockwise to the 12, is this correct?

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Hmmm, I'm not following you on this, maybe I need more coffee!

Are you saying that if the cams are pointing at their correct marks, you're losing compression in the cylinders on the right hand (passenger) side of the engine? Or are you saying that it has compression only if you're at the 1 o clock position with the cam (approximately a tooth or two over with the belt on the cam gear)?

If you're just not getting compression no matter where the cam gear is sitting, chances are you have a bent valve or a blown head gasket. It could also be what I just went through on my 1UZ engine, carbon so badly built up on the valves and the valve seats that it would not close completely and showed 30-60% leaking when I did a leakdown test on each cylinder. Hopefully this is not the problem you're having here.

One other thing to check here, and I don't know if this applies to your engine or not, but some cams have three holes drilled into it for positioning the drift pin at different degrees. Perhaps someone put the drift pin in the wrong hole? Long shot here, but that might just be why the cam gear was initially offset when you took it apart.

If you can, take pics of how you have it set up now, that would help a lot to see what you're describing.

 

[KHoffRunner]

Well, I got the timing belt and everything all buttoned up , thanks to your help . Now however, when I try start it I'm leaking fuel where the fuel pipe runs between the rails under the plenum. I had to remove the front fuel pipe to get a ratchet on the tensioner, and I had a bad feeling about about the fuel pipe because the bolt that holds the pipe to the rail is drilled with a hole in it presumably to let gas flow. I marked the bolt with a sharpie so I could get the pipe and the hole lined up, but its apparently not right. Any idea on this one?

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

No need to line it up, its not an indexed bolt. The drilled hole in it is just below the bung it screws into, so fuel shoulf flow just fine. You'll need to get in there and tighten it down to whatever the specs are on that bolt, tsrm should have the numbers for it.

If you can, try ordering some new copper or aluminum washers for the fuel rail bolt, as that's where its going to leak. I've had some luck reusing them, but have also had fuel everywhere from a nicked up copper washer, so I just take them to the parts store and have them match a couple up for me whenever I have to remove and reinstall the fuel rail bolts.

And glad to hear its all buttoned up!!! What was the final verdict that was causing the bad compression?

 

[Telepresence]

I remembered when I did mine, it was a 45 minute ordeal, and after I put the engine back in the truck it was half a cog off, so off came the radiator, fan, intake, and manifold. again.

 

[KHoffRunner]

No need to line it up, its not an indexed bolt. The drilled hole in it is just below the bung it screws into, so fuel shoulf flow just fine. You'll need to get in there and tighten it down to whatever the specs are on that bolt, tsrm should have the numbers for it.

If you can, try ordering some new copper or aluminum washers for the fuel rail bolt, as that's where its going to leak. I've had some luck reusing them, but have also had fuel everywhere from a nicked up copper washer, so I just take them to the parts store and have them match a couple up for me whenever I have to remove and reinstall the fuel rail bolts.

And glad to hear its all buttoned up!!! What was the final verdict that was causing the bad compression?

So, I think the compression deal was just me over thinking it tbh. I have it running now, but it is not running very well. I have a fluctuating idle. Idle is constantly jumping between between 1800-2000 rpms. I let the project rest yesterday, and I read someone on yotatech having similar problem and it was said that the ecm is basically freaking out until it warms up since I had the battery disconnected to get to one of the ps bracket bolts, so I wanted to let it warm up and let the tsat open up but I noticed white smoke coming from the EGR and the EGR was very, very hot within 1-2 minutes of running. I thought I may just needed to tinker with the distributor timing, but I'm a little concern of the smoke from the EGR.

EDIT: I did mess with the throttle cable when i took the plenum off for the valve covers, but I don't think that is the cause because of the fluctuation. My thinking is if I had the throttle cable jacked up it would a least have constant idle? I havent had a chance to burp the coolant, I don't know if that would cause all of this ruckus or not?

EDIT #2: After playing with the EGR vacuum hoses I got it to chill out, I played with the the distributor cap and adjusted it slight BTD, and the throttle cable and now I have it down to 1,000 rpms but it still feels a little rough and after 10 minutes or so it starts to run slightly hot. Hopefully I just need to get air out of the coolant. It still feels like its hyperbreathing when I feel the exhaust, but its calmed down around 1,000 rpms .

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Might need to re-check your tps, and definitely burp that radiator asap! That alone has been the cause of blown head gaskets! The water doesn't actually flow due to a huge air pocket and the engine overheats, popping the head gasket PDQ!

Lots of things can change when you tear down an engine, so just go through the whole thing again. Check vac lines, readjust throttle body, make sure timing is set correctly with the check connector shorted, pull the plugs and make sure all plugs are the same color, not wet, not oily, etc.

If it still won't get there, then check the compression again on all 6 cylinders just to make sure they are all sealing correctly.

Don't feel too bad, I'll be going through the same, exact thing with this 1UZ engine I'm putting in my supra soon!

 

[KHoffRunner]

Might need to re-check your tps, and definitely burp that radiator asap! That alone has been the cause of blown head gaskets! The water doesn't actually flow due to a huge air pocket and the engine overheats, popping the head gasket PDQ!

Lots of things can change when you tear down an engine, so just go through the whole thing again. Check vac lines, readjust throttle body, make sure timing is set correctly with the check connector shorted, pull the plugs and make sure all plugs are the same color, not wet, not oily, etc.

If it still won't get there, then check the compression again on all 6 cylinders just to make sure they are all sealing correctly.

Don't feel too bad, I'll be going through the same, exact thing with this 1UZ engine I'm putting in my supra soon!

Well... Dad called the other day and said the truck's valves were clattering pretty loud and she was really weak on power, so I've gone back in to find the timing is quite a bit off. This is the third time I've gone back in to correct the timing, and each time is I've turned the crank twice to check TDC on the cams.

This time they're advanced pretty far, am I just off a tooth and is that causing this?

I'm worried my compression stroke and exhaust are off, which would go back to my original concern of the passenger side cam not really wanting to fall on TDC. When I pulled the #1 spark the you feel the stroke at 10 o'clockish everytime (this is also the location the cam was at when I originally started the project while everything else was TDC), so by turning it that extra 45 degrees am I now in between a stroke?

Would it be a bad idea to try setting it where the passenger cam falls on the #1 plug? My dad's best friend, original owner of the truck, was the last person to change the timing belt ~13 yrs ago and it was done by a Toyota dealership.

The only thing keeping me halfway sane about the thing is I've cut the time getting in there to about 30 minutes. Is the 3VZ-E really this finicky or am I just blundering this project?

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

Wow! It shouldn't have changed since you set it, so having that in mind, can you check the keyways for both cams as well as crank?

See if they're walking around in the keyway or something, that's the only thing I can think of. It shouldn't just slip unless the belt isn't tightening down or the gears are slipping/walking around in the keyways.

 

[KHoffRunner]

It's basically two and half teeth off TDC clockwise. The belt feels great on it so I think I can rule out the belt slipping. I think I'll try setting it like it was when I originally dug in, and see how that goes.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Wow what a pita. Hawaiian you really seem to know these 3.0 backwards. That's impressive!! I'm just hoping when I install my 22re it's smooth. Reading these threads always makes me nervous.

To the OP. Keep up the good work. These older rigs can be a pita at time but when they are running good it's the best feeling in the world.


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