4.6L vs. 4.7L V8

[DC Dude]

Maybe they'll eventually put the 4.6 V8 into the T4R, but for what it's worth, here's an article toting the merits and advancements of the 4.6 over the older 4.7.

2010 Toyota Tundra 4.6L V8 Engine Review - Four Wheeler Magazine

2010 Toyota Tundra V8 Engine Photo 3

 

[eskimochaos]

Maybe they'll eventually put the 4.6 V8 into the T4R, but for what it's worth, here's an article toting the merits and advancements of the 4.6 over the older 4.7.

2010 Toyota Tundra 4.6L V8 Engine Review - Four Wheeler Magazine

2010 Toyota Tundra V8 Engine Photo 3

Newer doesnt mean better. Time will tell if its as bulletproof as the 4.7 sibling.

 

[Thai]

Newer doesnt mean better. Time will tell if its as bulletproof as the 4.7 sibling.

Hopefully, the starter won't fry or exhaust manifold cracking like with the 4.7??

 

[eskimochaos]

Hopefully, the starter won't fry or exhaust manifold cracking like with the 4.7??

What starters frying? The plunger and contacts need to be replaced on all Denso starters at a certain age. From ours on the 4.7 to the Denso starters John Deere uses on their HD farm equipment.

The plunger and contacts can be replaced numerous times before a new starter is needed. Manifolds are annoying but nothing critical - and they fixed that problem.

I guess you dont have to worry about starters since you drive a Prius:50cal:

JK

 

[DC Dude]

Newer doesnt mean better. Time will tell if its as bulletproof as the 4.7 sibling.

If you believe the review, it does sound more advanced and better, especially if they include it with the the 6 spd transmission.

 

[eskimochaos]

If you believe the review, it does sound more advanced and better.

That has nothing to do with long term durability.

 

[DC Dude]

That has nothing to do with long term durability.

Bro, I never said it did. Only time will tell.

 

[galactic_04]

I think it'll be a great engine with the dual VVTI like the 2gr-fe has and the torque of the 4.7. It's not like it's unproven technology they're adding since they have all the same features on the 2gr-fe since 2007 and many of those have been running reliably for years.

I'll say I've ridden in a 2gr-fe Mr2 with the VVTI not working and with it working and if it's the same with the 4.6 I'd expect a good 20-50Hp jump from the VVTI... all with better fuel economy. I didn't see a mention, but I wonder if they threw in the direct injection from the 2gr-fse as well.

I have to say that from C&D it looks like they weakened the engine a bit for the truck:
"Producing 310 hp and 327 lb-ft of torque, the new 4.6-liter mill replaces last year’s middle-child 4.7-liter V-8, which made 276 hp and 313 lb-ft. Whereas the power gains are appreciable, the engine is a descendant of the 4.6-liter mill that powers the Lexus LS460 and GS460 and can make up to a whopping 380 hp and 367 lb-ft. "

 

[Ryco4R]

If you believe the review, it does sound more advanced and better, especially if they include it with the the 6 spd transmission.

so that would mean it would be about 100x better and more advanced than your v6...

you're posting a comparison of two motors that weren't in the same gen and as far as we know, wont even be offered in the 4R period. what, on god's earth, are you trying to accomplish here?

get over your napoleon complex/pen1s envy of the 4th gen v8. no one cares that you love your v6. you look really bad and its getting old. move along troll.

 

[DC Dude]

so that would mean it would be about 100x better and more advanced than your v6...

you're posting a comparison of two motors that weren't in the same gen and as far as we know, wont even be offered in the 4R period. what, on god's earth, are you trying to accomplish here?

get over your napoleon complex/pen1s envy of the 4th gen v8. no one cares that you love your v6. you look really bad and its getting old. move along troll.

This new V8 is more advanced and probably better than the old V8 and V6, be it 100x that you say, or 1 million times that you didn't say.

If you read the article, you would note that the reporter made direct comparisons between your old V8 and the new V8. Why don't you direct your hurt feelings/anger towards him or just deal with it.

The real pen!s envy is what you have, by buying your V8 to make up in your other areas that are missing in power. That's your large bore and short stroke issue.

 

[rook]

so that would mean it would be about 100x better and more advanced than your v6...

you're posting a comparison of two motors that weren't in the same gen and as far as we know, wont even be offered in the 4R period. what, on god's earth, are you trying to accomplish here?

get over your napoleon complex/pen1s envy of the 4th gen v8. no one cares that you love your v6. you look really bad and its getting old. move along troll.

MODS - please clean this thread. This could have been an interesting topic to discuss.

Ryco - go be an asshole over at yotatech, there are plenty of people there with whom you will have lots in common.

 

[rook]

Maybe they'll eventually put the 4.6 V8 into the T4R, but for what it's worth, here's an article toting the merits and advancements of the 4.6 over the older 4.7.

2010 Toyota Tundra 4.6L V8 Engine Review - Four Wheeler Magazine

2010 Toyota Tundra V8 Engine Photo 3

Interesting info. One of the things that makes the 4R V8 so great is the engine internals. Since the truck was made in Japan, the connecting rods and crank were stronger than the V8's made in the states.

 

[Ryco4R]

Ryco - go be an asshole over at yotatech

rook, blow me.

edit: and when you're done, read through his pollution of this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/57517-performance-v6-vs-v8-5.html (mainly page 5 on) and tell me who the a-hole is.
thanks for playing.

 

[galactic_04]

you're posting a comparison of two motors that weren't in the same gen and as far as we know, wont even be offered in the 4R period. what, on god's earth, are you trying to accomplish here?

You're looking at an engine that was updated with the same technology used for almost 4 years! The 3.5, 5.7, and now 4.0 as of 2010 uses the same technology. This is technology taken straight from the engines developed from the 4th gen era. Will it ever be in the 4runner? Who knows? They may have been waiting for this engine. The 4.7 was a great engine but it was just not up with the technology to pull more horsepower and better fuel economy from it. By the dual VVTi used from the 2gr-fe 4 years ago you're looking at a 44HP increase and 11ft.lbs. That's not a small increase. This is all technology from engines that were made while the 4th gen was in production and they decided it was time to update the last engine without that technology... smart move by Toyota.

Oh, and I have to say ABOUT DAMN TIME THEY FINALLY WENT TO A TIMING CHAIN ON IT!!!

 

[eskimochaos]

You're looking at an engine that was updated with the same technology used for almost 4 years! The 3.5, 5.7, and now 4.0 as of 2010 uses the same technology. This is technology taken straight from the engines developed from the 4th gen era. Will it ever be in the 4runner? Who knows? They may have been waiting for this engine. The 4.7 was a great engine but it was just not up with the technology to pull more horsepower and better fuel economy from it. By the dual VVTi used from the 2gr-fe 4 years ago you're looking at a 44HP increase and 11ft.lbs. That's not a small increase. This is all technology from engines that were made while the 4th gen was in production and they decided it was time to update the last engine without that technology... smart move by Toyota.

Oh, and I have to say ABOUT DAMN TIME THEY FINALLY WENT TO A TIMING CHAIN ON IT!!!

They used a belt because they wanted uber-quiet operation which the 4.7 delivers on.

I feel if Toyota wanted to they could have tuned more from the 4.7. Its an Iron block - they could have put a forced induction system on it without redesigning a new engine. However, I believe that the 5.7 is just a bored out 4.6 bock (except they went big to small) this time. IIRC the 4.6 and 5.7 have the exact same OD's. (Outer dimensions)

And I thought I trolled....

 

[G.I.G.]

It would be cool if they eventually added the 4.6L to the 5th gen 4Runner. Although, I won't hold my breath. If I understand the EPA's rules on automotive manufacturers correctly, they require a minimum average MPG rating across a particular manufactures entire product line. With the Sequoia and Tundra tipping the scale heavily in the opposite direction of the Prius and Corolla, I wouldn't be surprised is Toyota maintained a conservative stance regarding engine options in the 4Runner for a while.

C A F E Overview

I would be interested to drive a newer Toyota with the 4.6L V8. I know it wouldn't be an apples-to-apples comparison to my 4th gen with the 4.7L, since the 4.6L is now married to a 6-speed tranny and not available in the same truck, but it would still be fun to drive.

Regarding long-term reliability, I wouldn't be too worried about it. They didn't start from the ground up with the 4.6L, they just tweaked the 4.7L a bit to gain additional MPG's a few more ponies. I think the biggest differences between the two are the addition of the VVT on the exhaust valves, a slightly higher compression ration, and a shorter stroke (hence the slightly smaller engine displacement). If you look at the side-by-side comparisons between the 4.7L and the 4.6L in that article, you can see the changes are relatively minor.

From the sounds of it, Toyota just took a good thing and made it better.

 

[eskimochaos]

It would be cool if they eventually added the 4.6L to the 5th gen 4Runner. Although, I won't hold my breath. If I understand the EPA's rules on automotive manufacturers correctly, they require a minimum average MPG rating across a particular manufactures entire product line. With the Sequoia and Tundra tipping the scale heavily in the opposite direction of the Prius and Corolla, I wouldn't be surprised is Toyota maintained a conservative stance regarding engine options in the 4Runner for a while.

C A F E Overview

I would be interested to drive a newer Toyota with the 4.6L V8. I know it wouldn't be an apples-to-apples comparison to my 4th gen with the 4.7L, since the 4.6L is now married to a 6-speed tranny and not available in the same truck, but it would still be fun to drive.

Regarding long-term reliability, I wouldn't be too worried about it. They didn't start from the ground up with the 4.6L, they just tweaked the 4.7L a bit to gain additional MPG's a few more ponies. I think the biggest differences between the two are the addition of the VVT on the exhaust valves, a slightly higher compression ration, and a shorter stroke (hence the slightly smaller engine displacement). If you look at the side-by-side comparisons between the 4.7L and the 4.6L in that article, you can see the changes are relatively minor.

From the sounds of it, Toyota just took a good thing and made it better.

Its an entirely different engine. The block is now aluminum. I know they've made metallurgical advancements but Iron is more durable than aluminum. Furthermore, little is known about the internals. Most of the components on the 4.7 are forged iron. Are the 4.6's made in Japan or the US? It again is an engine from the US Tundra similar to the 5.7 in the Land Cruiser.

Again that's why there have been 0 reported failures since its release in 1997. It was built to be utterly bomb-proof.

With that being said, a V8 in the 5th gen would almost have me sold; however, Im holding off for some other cars in my future .

PS: Dont even get me started with the ****ing epa standards. Mr. Obama and his clan of communists can shove it.

 

[progress4m]

Maybe they'll eventually put the 4.6 V8 into the T4R...

Let me guess… by that time your envy of having V8 will be gone and you will be ready for upgrade from V6..?

:

 

[G.I.G.]

Its an entirely different engine. The block is now aluminum. I know they've made metallurgical advancements but Iron is more durable than aluminum.

I think you're mistaken. This was in the middle of the article....

"The new engine has a cast-iron block, like the current 4.7, and both use 32-valve aluminum heads. (The 5.7 block is aluminum, to reduce weight, which also adds expense.)"

Again, based on the information I've read, the new 4.6L is more similar to the older 4.7L than it is dissimilar.

I hear what you're saying regarding aluminum blocks, but engineering capabilities and manufacturing techniques have come a long way in just the last decade or so. Historically, the biggest issues with aluminum blocks has not always been the blocks themselves, but how they interact with dissimilar metals (i.e. aluminum block and steel heads, or vice versa, expanding and contracting at different rates, etc.). While you can easily make a case for a cast iron block over an aluminum block, I think we'll see more and more engines coming with aluminum blocks in the future.

With all that said, I wouldn't hesitate to drive a truck with an aluminum block. There are many here that have 200k miles on their 4th gen V6's with no major issues to report. I think engine longevity has more to do with driving style and maintenance then it does engine block material. But that's my perosnal opinion.

And not to veer completely off topic, but I've also found that most cars and trucks, regardless of make, model, etc. experience far more costly repair issues with components other than the engine far sooner than before you have major engine issues. I owned two Jeep Grand Cherokees, one with the 4.0L straight 6 and the other with the 4.7L V8, and I got rid of them long before either of them had engine issues due to tranny issues, brake issues, electrical issues, etc. So regarding the 4Runner, I would have no problem owning one with an aluminum block or a cast iron block. I think both are solid engines.

 

[eskimochaos]

I think you're mistaken. This was in the middle of the article....

"The new engine has a cast-iron block, like the current 4.7, and both use 32-valve aluminum heads. (The 5.7 block is aluminum, to reduce weight, which also adds expense.)"

Again, based on the information I've read, the new 4.6L is more similar to the older 4.7L than it is dissimilar.

I hear what you're saying regarding aluminum blocks, but engineering capabilities and manufacturing techniques have come a long way in just the last decade or so. Historically, the biggest issues with aluminum blocks has not always been the blocks themselves, but how they interact with dissimilar metals (i.e. aluminum block and steel heads, or vice versa, expanding and contracting at different rates, etc.). While you can easily make a case for a cast iron block over an aluminum block, I think we'll see more and more engines coming with aluminum blocks in the future.

With all that said, I wouldn't hesitate to drive a truck with an aluminum block. There are many here that have 200k miles on their 4th gen V6's with no major issues to report. I think engine longevity has more to do with driving style and maintenance then it does engine block material. But that's my perosnal opinion.

And not to veer completely off topic, but I've also found that most cars and trucks, regardless of make, model, etc. experience far more costly repair issues with components other than the engine far sooner than before you have major engine issues. I owned two Jeep Grand Cherokees, one with the 4.0L straight 6 and the other with the 4.7L V8, and I got rid of them long before either of them had engine issues due to tranny issues, brake issues, electrical issues, etc. So regarding the 4Runner, I would have no problem owning one with an aluminum block or a cast iron block. I think both are solid engines.

GX | Detailed Specifications

http://www.toyota.com/tundra/specs.html

Aluminum block like its 5.7 sister. 4.7 and 4.6/5.7 are completely different. 4.6 is a smaller derivation of the 5.7 which was newly design for the 2nd gen Tundra.

Re: your points above - I will probably never own a car long enough to experience those issues. I will; however, have a very hard time parting with my 4R when I do. I remember reading an editorial written by a Car&Driver big wig. It was an article about his favorite car. He drove rare exotics, old muscle cars - basically everything we could only dream of. However, he said his favorite car was his personal 4Runner. He slept in it, took it on many trips, seen much of the country in it etc etc. Its this kind of "relationship" that makes an owner love their car. Its not a car that can rip your head off with speed or some flashy rare exotic - its the one you can do almost everything in and the one that has always been there for you. Off topic I know but I feel the same way with my 4R.