4-Link WITHOUT Moving Gas Tank

[RockyrT4R]

This thread is to help me get some feedback and ideas on a 4link I have thought of.

I have 14” shocks in the rear so I have a ton of flex, this leads to the panhard binding up and pushing the axle around, recently I snapped my panhard bracket right above the weld of my drop bracket, I cut out the crossmember and made a whole new one and a new bracket. Once installed I realized the axle was pushed to the drivers side at least 1-2”s and the panhard bar itself will contact the diff housing if I hit a big enough bump and on and on and on...

I’m done with the panhard bar and I know it wouldn’t be a hard fix to make it right but I was thinking, I could remove the whole panhard bar if I relocated the upper links.
I was thinking, put the upper link axle side mounts right above the center of the axle and then the frame side mounts outward a little bit so that I could have a single triangulated 4 link, as long as I could get stock performance or better I would be happy, but if it’s going to limit my travel a lot I will be going a different route.

Here’s an example of what I want to do, just a pic I found on the internet. Stock lower link position; only changing upper link position/angle and removing panhard.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

 

[Tyler James Inc]

You're gonna have horrible roll-steer with that setup- similar to the stock setup.
If you're gonna do that, just pull the panhard and send it. I drove daily without a panhard for a couple weeks or so.
I definitely wouldn't recommend it, but it wouldn't be much worse than what you're suggesting, and a HELL of a lot less work. If you have spherical link ends, it probably wouldn't be half as bad as the worn out bushed ends I had- and it wasn't even that bad IMO. Roll center is much lower(not good), but no worse than it would be with your proposed design.
Do you have heimed ends now? If so, pull the panhard and see what you think.
Summery-
Don't waste your time building another shitty 4-link.
Run what you got, or do it right. You'll have a good option for a "right" 4-link in the near future.

 

[RockyrT4R]

I have rubber bushings still, tried it without a panhard today and got the death wobble if a gust of wind hit me sideways...I’m going to end up just redesigning and building a new panhard bracket.

 

[DaMonkey]

... You'll have a good option for a "right" 4-link in the near future...

Someone designing a kit?

 

[Andy in Pa]

NO reason this won't work under the back of a 3rd gen Toy, just have to do your homework on roll center, upper/lower link lengths, link separation at the frame... etc... Many Jeeps swap to this setup, as it improves offroad performance. Typically a sway bar is run with it though, to maintain stability. If your going that far though, just go aftermarket with the gas tank.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Someone designing a kit?

Yes.

NO reason this won't work under the back of a 3rd gen Toy, just have to do your homework on roll center, upper/lower link lengths, link separation at the frame... etc... Many Jeeps swap to this setup, as it improves offroad performance.

There are reasons though. If you do your homework on the RC, AS, RA, link separation, angle separation, etc- you'll see you really can't get good numbers with the stock tank in there. Jeeps have the tank in the rear, so that's a moot point.

If your going that far though, just go aftermarket with the gas tank.

Exactly.

 

[Andy in Pa]

Yes.

There are reasons though. If you do your homework on the RC, AS, RA, link separation, angle separation, etc- you'll see you really can't get good numbers with the stock tank in there. Jeeps have the tank in the rear, so that's a moot point.


Exactly.

We are in agreement... Although the factory WJ (1999-2004 Grand Cherokee) is done as a triangulated 4 link in the rear. There is no gas tank in the way on the WJ though. The upper link is up in there pretty good, but I still think it would encroach on the gas tank area if a similar style upper is attempted on a 3rd gen 4R.

Going to have to go lay under my 4R now and stare at it a bit...:nod:

 

[nevada]

We are in agreement... Although the factory WJ (1999-2004 Grand Cherokee) is done as a triangulated 4 link in the rear. There is no gas tank in the way on the WJ though. The upper link is up in there pretty good, but I still think it would encroach on the gas tank area if a similar style upper is attempted on a 3rd gen 4R.

Going to have to go lay under my 4R now and stare at it a bit...:nod:

those use a watts link. I would guess to get the necessary clearance needed. so its a bit different from a traditional 4 link.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

We are in agreement... Although the factory WJ (1999-2004 Grand Cherokee) is done as a triangulated 4 link in the rear. There is no gas tank in the way on the WJ though. The upper link is up in there pretty good, but I still think it would encroach on the gas tank area if a similar style upper is attempted on a 3rd gen 4R.



Going to have to go lay under my 4R now and stare at it a bit...:nod:

I know [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] took accurate measurements of the stock 4/5 link, and put those numbers into the Triaged calculator. He played around with trying to fit a 3-link in there with the stock tank, and it just wasn't happening. You can do it, but the performance gain is next to nothing, and it just doesn't make sense to go through all that work for- basically- no gain.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

those use a watts link. I would guess to get the necessary clearance needed. so its a bit different from a traditional 4 link.

Do they? I swear they use a funky wishbone upper link.

 

[phattyduck]

those use a watts link. I would guess to get the necessary clearance needed. so its a bit different from a traditional 4 link.

No, its a triangulated 3-link (not 4-link). One wishbone upper arm, two lower arms.

The watts link you might be thinking of was on the Dodge Durango, I think...

-Charlie

 

[nevada]

No, its a triangulated 3-link (not 4-link). One wishbone upper arm, two lower arms.

The watts link you might be thinking of was on the Dodge Durango, I think...

-Charlie

no sir, the jeep uses them. wishbone or whatever you want to call it. its a watts link.


https://www.1aauto.com/1999-04-jeep...FnvS4QG3R6Q8JOMeHkL1X4hWddjvOA0hoC1RgQAvD_BwE

 

[nevada]

Do they? I swear they use a funky wishbone upper link.

yes, that funky wishbone is a watts link.

 

[nevada]

crap, now you've got me thinking...

maybe it WAS a Durango. I know I have changed one before. I swore it was on the Cherokee. damnit. maybe not...


sorry...

carry on.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

yes, that funky wishbone is a watts link.

Not at all.

 

[DaMonkey]

Someone designing a kit?

Yes.
...

Are you the one designing the kit?

Any info on what's coming?

 

[Andy in Pa]

Here is an aftermarket version of what the WJ uses. Interesting idea, not sure it could work for a 4R...

https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/product/wj-adjustable-a-arm-short.html

 

[jkeith.w]

I know [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] took accurate measurements of the stock 4/5 link, and put those numbers into the Triaged calculator. He played around with trying to fit a 3-link in there with the stock tank, and it just wasn't happening. You can do it, but the performance gain is next to nothing, and it just doesn't make sense to go through all that work for- basically- no gain.

well, it corrected the roll steer & beefed up the links, so there's that. I think it's viable if you needed to keep the tank in place for some reason.

It's basically relocating the lower link axle mounts up to the centerline (or a hair above) and making using a new upper passenger side frame mount with a much longer upper link. The factory upper link axle mount would need to be reinforced, since you'd get rid of the driver's upper link altogether.

 

[jkeith.w]

Someone designing a kit?







Are you the one designing the kit?



Any info on what's coming?

I'm working up a kit (dual triangulated 4-link) to use with a 1" body lift. Still in the modeling phase, though (working the frame mounts at the moment)

 

[phattyduck]

no sir, the jeep uses them. wishbone or whatever you want to call it. its a watts link.


https://www.1aauto.com/1999-04-jeep...FnvS4QG3R6Q8JOMeHkL1X4hWddjvOA0hoC1RgQAvD_BwE

That is absolutely *NOT* a watts link. This is a watts link:

It is used in place of a panhard rod/link. It has a more linear vertical travel around the designed ride height than a panhard, at the expense of extra joints.

-Charlie