4 or 5 tire rotation and spare question

RainCityShecks

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I'm moving down to 17 inch rims. I like how the limited spare is powder coated to protect against corrosion. Even though I've got 5 FJ takeoffs I'm considering leaving the stock 20 spare due to the powder coat. For those w/ the limited trim who've done the same (moved down to 17's) do you typically keep the spare or convert all to 17's to do a 5 tire rotation?

I'm personally not super concerned w/ a 5 tire rotation because i plan on getting LTX MS/2 so they'll last forever anyway.
 
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You gain nothing doing a five tire rotation and the Michelins will last 50-60K. I have run several sets of those and they are a good tire except they don't clear mud well.
 
I'm moving down to 17 inch rims. I like how the limited spare is powder coated to protect against corrosion. Even though I've got 5 FJ takeoffs I'm considering leaving the stock 20 spare due to the powder coat. For those w/ the limited trim who've done the same (moved down to 17's) do you typically keep the spare or convert all to 17's to do a 5 tire rotation?

I'm personally not super concerned w/ a 5 tire rotation because i plan on getting LTX MS/2 so they'll last forever anyway.

Does that mean you want to run 4X17's and keep the 20" as a spare?
 
I run 4 17" tires part of year mainly during off road season in Arizona. I still have my 20" tire as a spare but have not needed it. On longer road trips I have the 20s on so it does not matter. If I was never going to use the 20s again I would ditch the stock spare and run a matching tire and wheel. The problem will be it will not have a tpms as the 4runner can only support 4. If I was going to do heavy off road I would definitely have a better spare tire. I just bought a new atv so the 4runner is only seeing easier fire roads at this time. As to the yellow spare, I could not stand seeing it hang back there. It is visible while following the 4runner down the road. I sanded/polished the yellow off the spokes down to the aluminum and painted the normally black part of the wheel black. After clear coating the whole wheel it looks just like the regular wheels. I do not have winter here so corrosion is not an issue. I have used it in normal use just for the heck of it and you cannot tell the difference in looks but it does not have a tpms.
 
I just replaced my 4 limited wheels with 17"s and left the original 5th wheel. I don't even know what it looks like ;-)
I also need to decided if this is the correct thing to do...
 
You gain nothing doing a five tire rotation and the Michelins will last 50-60K. I have run several sets of those and they are a good tire except they don't clear mud well.

That's not entirely true. Toyota does state for most if not all their 4WD/AWD systems that tires should be within about 3~4/32" of each other because it could cause damage to the drivetrain components. As a result they tend to recommend 5-Wheel Rotations for vehicles with full-sized spare tires (at least they did when they offered full-sized spare tires that weren't a disgusting yellow colour...)

While I do agree that differences in diameter will cause the differentials and transfer case gears to work harder (because the wheel speeds are different and so the mechanically they act as if the vehicle is always in a slight turn/bind), I genuinely do not think 3~4/32" makes a significant enough difference. Even taking the VSC & TRAC systems into account, I just can't see them being THAT sensitive; but apparently Toyota thinks they are because they continue to issue that warning in the owner's manuals and FSMs and such. So some engineer(s) feel it is possible enough issue that ink, time, and effort needs to be wasted putting it out there.

Realistically? I don't remember the last time I did a 5-Wheel rotation on a customer's vehicle (I know I did because they requested it and I thought it was funny since that's what the manual does call for, despite most every shop usually doing "Front to Back") Though to be fair, we're talking about rotating the spare tire in to make sure all the tires wear evenly to prevent "damage to the drivetrain" as a result of significantly different tire diameters; which is something I haven't seen and/or heard of happening so far.

My personal opinion? You should do a 5-Wheel Rotation if you have a full sized 5th wheel with the same tire equipped. Why? Because you're tires will last a little bit longer as wear is distributed over 1/5 more surface area and because tires are perishable items. Sure you could leave the spare tire under the vehicle and maybe you'll even remember to keep it aired up to pressure so when you do need it, it isn't as flat as the tire you need to replace. But if that tire is 7 years old, rock hard, and cracking up; do you want to use that as your spare? I personally would be rather wary since it wouldn't surprise me with my luck for that old dry rotted hunk of rubber to blow out on me and leave me stranded. A 5-Wheel Rotation will make sure all the tires are being aired up properly, worn in evenly, and theoretically used up before they become a significant liability.

I honestly would run a 5-Wheel Rotation pattern on my 4Runner if I could mainly for the reason of tire life/health as I pointed out above; but I currently only have 4 33" tires and 1 factory Dunlop. So I'm kinda of in a "we're gonna see how accurate that Toyota warning about different diameters is" if I ever get a flat. In the end, it's up to you; past experience shows that you're not hurting anything sticking to a standard "Front to Back" or "Cross Rotate" pattern and most likely you're never going to use the spare tire anyways, so it shouldn't be too big an issue if it's harder than stone, more cracked than Mitch McConnell's face, and probably a bit on the flat side as well. :)
 
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That's not entirely true. Toyota does state for most if not all their 4WD/AWD systems that tires should be within about 3~4/32" of each other because it could cause damage to the drivetrain components. As a result they tend to recommend 5-Wheel Rotations for vehicles with full-sized spare tires (at least they did when they offered full-sized spare tires that weren't a disgusting yellow colour...)

While I do agree that differences in diameter will cause the differentials and transfer case gears to work harder (because the wheel speeds are different and so the mechanically they act as if the vehicle is always in a slight turn/bind), I genuinely do not think 3~4/32" makes a significant enough difference. Even taking the VSC & TRAC systems into account, I just can't see them being THAT sensitive; but apparently Toyota thinks they are because they continue to issue that warning in the owner's manuals and FSMs and such. So some engineer(s) feel it is possible enough issue that ink, time, and effort needs to be wasted putting it out there.

Realistically? I don't remember the last time I did a 5-Wheel rotation on a customer's vehicle (I know I did because they requested it and I thought it was funny since that's what the manual does call for, despite most every shop usually doing "Front to Back") Though to be fair, we're talking about rotating the spare tire in to make sure all the tires wear evenly to prevent "damage to the drivetrain" as a result of significantly different tire diameters; which is something I haven't seen and/or heard of happening so far.

My personal opinion? You should do a 5-Wheel Rotation if you have a full sized 5th wheel with the same tire equipped. Why? Because you're tires will last a little bit longer as wear is distributed over 1/5 more surface area and because tires are perishable items. Sure you could leave the spare tire under the vehicle and maybe you'll even remember to keep it aired up to pressure so when you do need it, it isn't as flat as the tire you need to replace. But if that tire is 7 years old, rock hard, and cracking up; do you want to use that as your spare? I personally would be rather wary since it wouldn't surprise me with my luck for that old dry rotted hunk of rubber to blow out on me and leave me stranded. A 5-Wheel Rotation will make sure all the tires are being aired up properly, worn in evenly, and theoretically used up before they become a significant liability.

I honestly would run a 5-Wheel Rotation pattern on my 4Runner if I could mainly for the reason of tire life/health as I pointed out above; but I currently only have 4 33" tires and 1 factory Dunlop. So I'm kinda of in a "we're gonna see how accurate that Toyota warning about different diameters is" if I ever get a flat. In the end, it's up to you; past experience shows that you're not hurting anything sticking to a standard "Front to Back" or "Cross Rotate" pattern and most likely you're never going to use the spare tire anyways, so it shouldn't be too big an issue if it's harder than stone, more cracked than Mitch McConnell's face, and probably a bit on the flat side as well. :)
Lol I didn't say not to, I said you gain nothing. My long post reasoning is ina thread somewhere and bottom line you get 10K more miles out of a set of five versus four but it comes at the cost of an additional tire.

As far as a decent modern tire goes UVA is the main degradation ingredient and underneath a vehicle takes care of that problem to a point. Ozone is another issue. Anyway if you don't use a tire in five or six years then you probably need to get a new one anyway.

Lastly I have not read the 4/32nd rule. I did do the calculations once and the difference in a turn between the outside and inside front and back in a turn is far greater than a circumference difference resulting in a 4/32 differential. Also pretty sure if you read that rule to an average owner there would be a glazed look that would immediately take over their face and their comment would be "Huh?"
 
I got all five but don't rotate the spare in... I wasn't buying expensive aftermarket wheels though just preloved SR5's. I seem to occasionally need to put a spare on due to a flat. Fortunately it's usually a nail or screw and I Walk out the next day to a flat. Just easier to throw the spare on and drop the wheel and tire for a patch and come back after work.
 
Lastly I have not read the 4/32nd rule.

Also pretty sure if you read that rule to an average owner there would be a glazed look that would immediately take over their face and their comment would be "Huh?"

Huh? Shouldnt that just be 1/8???:eyebrows:
 
Lol I didn't say not to, I said you gain nothing. My long post reasoning is ina thread somewhere and bottom line you get 10K more miles out of a set of five versus four but it comes at the cost of an additional tire.

As far as a decent modern tire goes UVA is the main degradation ingredient and underneath a vehicle takes care of that problem to a point. Ozone is another issue. Anyway if you don't use a tire in five or six years then you probably need to get a new one anyway.

Lastly I have not read the 4/32nd rule. I did do the calculations once and the difference in a turn between the outside and inside front and back in a turn is far greater than a circumference difference resulting in a 4/32 differential. Also pretty sure if you read that rule to an average owner there would be a glazed look that would immediately take over their face and their comment would be "Huh?"

It's buried somewhere in the TIS documentation (like much of the finer details), I don't think it's 4/32" it might be closer to 2~3/32". There's just this generic "Make sure the tread is even on all tires" warning in many of the AWD & 4WD owner's manual. I agree with you; it's insignificant unless you're in my situation where my spare is almost 2" in diameter smaller. I wouldn't even worry about it, the math/physics doesn't support the idea that it will cause significant enough strain on the drivetrain; not to mention I seriously doubt that such a small difference in the wheel speed will bother the Skid Control ECU, granted the active wheel speed sensors we use today are more accurate than older passive units; but from what I've seen diagnosing VSC issues... the Skid Control ECU usually doesn't care about a couple mph difference in wheel speed.

I wasn't picking on you, just pointing out that Toyota has that weird warning and in the context of spare tires it could be an issue according to them. I have to admit, my spare tire is in pretty good for an almost 11yr old tire (I imagine it's the original), though I'm working towards setting my 4th gen up for 35's so I can get big boy tires and wheels. :)
 
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Can someone fill in non-owner potential buyer on how the spare comes through from the factory? I not sure what model I plan on buying, wheels and tires are a big deal and are up in the air for me. I already bought 4 TRD pro wheels for my expedition trailer, or for a Trail if I end up going that route. Either Pro, or build up a trail, not sure yet.
Does a Pro, or a Trail come through with a matching spare, tire and wheel? And if the 4-Runner only supports 4tps, then for a five tire rotation are peeps just putting a wheel with a tps in the spare location, and running a un-sensored wheel in the rotation?

Thanks
Morgan
 
Originally, I bought 5 tires when I switched from standard load stock tires to LT ATs. I wanted a spare that at least bore some resemblance to the other new tires.

Just bought new LT ATs tires recently and only got 4. The best of the old set went into spare duty.

Rotating 5 tires at home is a PIA. Watching someone else attempt to keep track of a requested 5 tire, rearward cross-rotation is incredibly entertaining, but ultimately an even bigger PIA.
 
Can someone fill in non-owner potential buyer on how the spare comes through from the factory? I not sure what model I plan on buying, wheels and tires are a big deal and are up in the air for me. I already bought 4 TRD pro wheels for my expedition trailer, or for a Trail if I end up going that route. Either Pro, or build up a trail, not sure yet.
Does a Pro, or a Trail come through with a matching spare, tire and wheel? And if the 4-Runner only supports 4tps, then for a five tire rotation are peeps just putting a wheel with a tps in the spare location, and running a un-sensored wheel in the rotation?

Thanks
Morgan

I'm not sure this answers all your questions but...all T4Rs come with a full sized, matching spare tire but the wheel does not match the four on the ground. It is generally a fairly plain steel wheel. It you get bigger tires, the spare may not fit in the well. A stock size will fit, of course, and a 275 might but I'm pretty sure that a 285 won't.
 
Can someone fill in non-owner potential buyer on how the spare comes through from the factory? I not sure what model I plan on buying, wheels and tires are a big deal and are up in the air for me. I already bought 4 TRD pro wheels for my expedition trailer, or for a Trail if I end up going that route. Either Pro, or build up a trail, not sure yet.
Does a Pro, or a Trail come through with a matching spare, tire and wheel? And if the 4-Runner only supports 4tps, then for a five tire rotation are peeps just putting a wheel with a tps in the spare location, and running a un-sensored wheel in the rotation?

Thanks
Morgan

I couldn't tell you for sure to be honest, after the 4th gen they went a bit weird with the spare tires. Some of them are steel wheels, others are aluminum but painted an ugly yellow, and I think many have 5 TPMS as an option? I don't even know what the spare looks like on a TRD Pro; I didn't really pay that much attention to it to be honest. They went from "5 full sized, TPMS equipped wheels and tires" to "lets cut corners where we can."
 
I couldn't tell you for sure to be honest, after the 4th gen they went a bit weird with the spare tires. Some of them are steel wheels, others are aluminum but painted an ugly yellow, and I think many have 5 TPMS as an option? I don't even know what the spare looks like on a TRD Pro; I didn't really pay that much attention to it to be honest. They went from "5 full sized, TPMS equipped wheels and tires" to "lets cut corners where we can."

My friend had an 2008 4runner with 5 matching wheels all with tpms. This worked out great for him because he damaged a wheel cosmetically when he had a flat. He just put that damaged wheel in the spare location where other wise he would have had to replace it. My 2011 Avalon had 5 matching wheels and all had tpms.
 
all T4Rs come with a full sized, matching spare tire but the wheel does not match the four on the ground.

Limiteds come with five matching wheels, as covered previously. They do this as five tire rotation is specified in the owner's manual.
 
I'm not sure this answers all your questions but...all T4Rs come with a full sized, matching spare tire but the wheel does not match the four on the ground. It is generally a fairly plain steel wheel. It you get bigger tires, the spare may not fit in the well. A stock size will fit, of course, and a 275 might but I'm pretty sure that a 285 won't.

The TRD Pro does not come with a matching 5th tire. It comes with the standard trail tire (as far as I can tell.)
 

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