4Runner Decision Help - Fuel Requirements

[pipspeak]

Drive a GX back to back with a 4R and it's noticeable that something's different with the tuning/electronics. The first portion of the gas pedal's travel in the GX gets you more power than the same throttle position in the V8 4Runner. I assumed it was simply different calibration of the drive-by-wire gas pedal, but it could be more agressive tuning of the engine itself. Or a combination of the 2.

Could it be that Toyota tunes the Lexus to be better able to "compete" with its peers that have more powerful V8s? Like the LandRover/Range Rover, Toureg (or "toe-rag" as I call it), Cayenne etc.

 

[OUTRNNR]

Could it be that Toyota tunes the Lexus to be better able to "compete" with its peers that have more powerful V8s? Like the LandRover/Range Rover, Toureg (or "toe-rag" as I call it), Cayenne etc.

Yeah, or to make the Lexus buyers feel better. I would bet, for all intents and purposes, that the engines are identical, at least in function. Doesn't matter though, the 4Runner is quicker than the GX anyway...

 

[JB.]

Yeah, or to make the Lexus buyers feel better. I would bet, for all intents and purposes, that the engines are identical, at least in function. Doesn't matter though, the 4Runner is quicker than the GX anyway...

That'd be my guess. When's the last time an auto company got in trouble for understating engine performance? I'd guess it's largely a marketing fiction to appropriately position 4Runner vs GX on paper.

 

[ThatsRicci]

Let me do some math for you... now i know we were all around when gas was $1.30 a gallon.


87 = $1.30
89 = $1.40 +7.5% more cost
91 = $1.50 +15.5%
93 = $1.60 +23%


Now, here i SanDiego average price for 87 today was...
aroudn $3.15

87 = $3.15
89 = $3.25 +3% more cost
91 = $3.35 +6%
93 = $3.45 +9%


NOW is a better time than EVER to buy premium fuels because it's actually costing you less for the premium than before... eh? Does anyone follow this logic?!! Why wait for prices to go back down before you get premium fuel-- it's just costing you more for the (lack there of ) performance increases!!! might as well try it now while it's --relatively-- cheap!! i guess if gas keeps going up it'll just get cheaper huh?


so all those people who were buying 91/93 when gas was cheap years ago... are just starting to break-even by buying all their gas from the 87 pumps. Meanwhile, throwing 91 in my ride now is still keeping me under the buck if i was putting 87 in it when it was cheap ;D

 

[Fourty-four]

Let me do some math for you... now i know we were all around when gas was $1.30 a gallon.


87 = $1.30
89 = $1.40 +7.5% more cost
91 = $1.50 +15.5%
93 = $1.60 +23%


Now, here i SanDiego average price for 87 today was...
aroudn $3.15

87 = $3.15
89 = $3.25 +3% more cost
91 = $3.35 +6%
93 = $3.45 +9%


NOW is a better time than EVER to buy premium fuels because it's actually costing you less for the premium than before... eh? Does anyone follow this logic?!! Why wait for prices to go back down before you get premium fuel-- it's just costing you more for the (lack there of ) performance increases!!! might as well try it now while it's --relatively-- cheap!! i guess if gas keeps going up it'll just get cheaper huh?


so all those people who were buying 91/93 when gas was cheap years ago... are just starting to break-even by buying all their gas from the 87 pumps. Meanwhile, throwing 91 in my ride now is still keeping me under the buck if i was putting 87 in it when it was cheap ;D

Hmmm......strange theory. No matter how you slice it, spending anything extra on premium fuel is a waste of money if your vehicle doesn't benefit from it.

Besides, in my neck of the woods, there's a bigger difference between the fuel grades than what you listed.

 

[RedWhite]

Hey "thatsricci"... I was thinking the same way a few posts back. Thanks for doing the math.

Actually, two weeks ago in this neck of those woods (Texas)
I spotted a mere 13 cents difference between regular and premium. Worked out to about a 4% hike as I recall.

 

[MAC4Runner]

Let me do some math for you... now i know we were all around when gas was $1.30 a gallon.


87 = $1.30
89 = $1.40 +7.5% more cost
91 = $1.50 +15.5%
93 = $1.60 +23%


Now, here i SanDiego average price for 87 today was...
aroudn $3.15

87 = $3.15
89 = $3.25 +3% more cost
91 = $3.35 +6%
93 = $3.45 +9%


NOW is a better time than EVER to buy premium fuels because it's actually costing you less for the premium than before... eh? Does anyone follow this logic?!! Why wait for prices to go back down before you get premium fuel-- it's just costing you more for the (lack there of ) performance increases!!! might as well try it now while it's --relatively-- cheap!! i guess if gas keeps going up it'll just get cheaper huh?

I hope you were being sarcastic......... Anyway you cut it, you're still paying $.30 more per gallon for Premium than regular. It's basic math.

 

[Northof49]

I hope you were being sarcastic......... Anyway you cut it, you're still paying $.30 more per gallon for Premium than regular. It's basic math.

Exactly. And in a vehicle like a 4Runner you will never see $.30 per gallon better performance/fuel economy.

I see what he's saying that premium is a "better deal" than ever, but that does not mean the cost/benefit ratio is higher than that of 87 octane. BTW, I don't think using higher octane is a complete waste or a "bad idea," particularily in harsh conditions (towing, summer months, big hills, etc)....but if you're looking for maximum cost/benefit, the facts are that the 4R will do 99% of anything/everything on 87 octane that it will on anything higher.

 

[Koz]

Using premium fuel, in the 4th gen 4Runner is a WASTE of money. There is no gain of performance or mileage.

Koz

 

[Thai]

My recommendations...NOT based on facts, but on experience.

If i have a 4runner (or any Toyota that recommends premium gas) and I want to use regular gas, then i would go with "top tier" gas brands. What do i mean? See this link:

http://toptiergas.com/index.html

Click on RETAILERS to find out which gas brands belong in this respected category.

Why do i recommend this? My brother has a Town & Country minivan. After several years, his minivan started to knock. His manual says that 87 octane is good. When he used premium, the knocking subsided. But, being cheap with a new house and family, he did not want to pay the extra bucks. So, he started trying different brands of gas at 87 octane. Strangely, but consistently, Shell gasoline does NOT cause any more knocking at 87 octane! My other brother's Jeep Rubicon is liking Shell gas too. So, IMHO, there is something to be said about these "top tier gas."

For me, i will try to use Shell or Chevron whenever i can for all of my cars, even if it's a bit out of my way. I use Chevron "Fuel System Cleaner" once in a blue moon.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Koz]

My recommendations...NOT based on facts, but on experience.

If i have a 4runner (or any Toyota that recommends premium gas) and I want to use regular gas, then i would go with "top tier" gas brands. What do i mean? See this link:

http://toptiergas.com/index.html

Click on RETAILERS to find out which gas brands belong in this respected category.

Why do i recommend this? My brother has a Town & Country minivan. After several years, his minivan started to knock. His manual says that 87 octane is good. When he used premium, the knocking subsided. But, being cheap with a new house and family, he did not want to pay the extra bucks. So, he started trying different brands of gas at 87 octane. Strangely, but consistently, Shell gasoline does NOT cause any more knocking at 87 octane! My other brother's Jeep Rubicon is liking Shell gas too. So, IMHO, there is something to be said about these "top tier gas."

For me, i will try to use Shell or Chevron whenever i can for all of my cars, even if it's a bit out of my way. I use Chevron "Fuel System Cleaner" once in a blue moon.

Just my thoughts.

The reason the mini started to knock is because carbon has built up in the combustion chamber which created higher compression. He should try to have it cleaned out.

Koz

 

[Thai]

The reason the mini started to knock is because carbon has built up in the combustion chamber which created higher compression. He should try to have it cleaned out.

Koz

If this is so, then it should knock no matter what brand gasoline he uses.

 

[Koz]

If this is so, then it should knock no matter what brand gasoline he uses.

I've heard very good things about Shell, especially about that V-Power gas. Shell may be using a better additive package that maintains the octane better.

If the octane/brand differences make a difference in the amount of knock, the engine needs a good cleaning. Clean out carbon in the cylinders and use AutoRX to flush the oiling system.

Koz

 

[Northof49]

My recommendations...NOT based on facts, but on experience.

If i have a 4runner (or any Toyota that recommends premium gas) and I want to use regular gas, then i would go with "top tier" gas brands. What do i mean? See this link:

http://toptiergas.com/index.html

Click on RETAILERS to find out which gas brands belong in this respected category.

Why do i recommend this? My brother has a Town & Country minivan. After several years, his minivan started to knock. His manual says that 87 octane is good. When he used premium, the knocking subsided. But, being cheap with a new house and family, he did not want to pay the extra bucks. So, he started trying different brands of gas at 87 octane. Strangely, but consistently, Shell gasoline does NOT cause any more knocking at 87 octane! My other brother's Jeep Rubicon is liking Shell gas too. So, IMHO, there is something to be said about these "top tier gas."

For me, i will try to use Shell or Chevron whenever i can for all of my cars, even if it's a bit out of my way. I use Chevron "Fuel System Cleaner" once in a blue moon.

Just my thoughts.

I used to think that way too....but having recently got in the gas station game, I'm beginning wonder.

First of all, the base fuel (the straight "gas") is more dependant on area than the brand of gas. Say, in my area, all of the gas is Imperial Oil, period. The only difference is the additives, or lack thereof, that they dump into the tanker truck when it's loaded up. My station, for example, is toward the discount end of the scale, and the gas contains no advertised additives (techron, winter gas, etc). The additives themselves are another subject....both the benefit, and how much you actually get. I've heard everything down to a few gallons of additive per tanker-truck load, but can't confirm nor disprove this. The additives themselves are also questionable.....I've had good experience with Chevron for years, but remember awhile ago that Shell's additives were buggering up fuel systems/sensors. In a case like that, I'd rather have the straight gas (no additive).

Long story short, for the last few months I've been using a more "discount" brand of gas, as opposed to the top tier I've always used. I can't tell the difference in any vehicle so far, nor any vehicle of my family and friends that switched over. This includes new cars, old trucks, boats, sleds (very picky), Corvette w/built motor, etc.

That said, I KNOW the 87 octane there is 87, the 89 is 89 and the 91 is 91. Although there's no way to "water down" gas, I suppose some really cheeseball station could be passing off 85 as 87 or something gay like that. Long story short, the gas coming out of my pumps is the same "gas" as the big boys in town, no matter what it says on the sign out front.

If additives make me feel all warm and squishy inside....I'll just dump in a bottle of FI cleaner once and awhile, like you mentioned.

 

[Thai]

Northof49, you're right. In small towns especially, all gas brands come from the same truck! (I used to live in a 9800-population town.) So, there is really not much difference in additives either. However, in more populated areas, i do believe in "you get what you pay for" philosophy. Shell & Chevron charge a hefty price for their gas. I can't imagine that they would do this only to suckers like myself into thinking that i am getting more for my dollar.

Shell recently came out with "V-Power" which is supposed to be a major breakthru according to their press. Of course, if your gas was shitty to begin with, then V-power is a breathru. I did not think highly of Shell years ago, but they have gotten good "word of mouth" recently. In addition, my brothers undeniably believe in it because they have seen it with their own eyes.

One weird thing about Shell...V-power is actually only in the Premium (91-93 octane). The mid- and lower grade are not advertised with V-power. It just strikes me as odd. In comparison, Chevron advertises Techron in all their grades. According to my brothers, Chevron still led to a bit of knocking in the minivan and Jeep. So, it looks like Shell did indeed improve their gas additive.

So, for me, as stated above, i use mostly Chevron for my Corolla (regular gas; thus my reservation about 87-oct Shell) and either Shell or Chevron for my G (premium all the time since it is required). My Fiance is still pretty cheap and uses the cheapest gas in her Highlander. She's slowly switching over to my philosophy (good or bad, we will see).

 

[Northof49]

Northof49, you're right. In small towns especially, all gas brands come from the same truck! (I used to live in a 9800-population town.) So, there is really not much difference in additives either. However, in more populated areas, i do believe in "you get what you pay for" philosophy. Shell & Chevron charge a hefty price for their gas. I can't imagine that they would do this only to sucker people like myself into thinking that i am getting more for my dollar.

Shell recently came out with "V-Power" which is supposed to be a major breakthru according to their press. Of course, if your gas was shitty to begin with, then V-power is a breathru. I did not think highly of Shell years ago, but they have gotten good "word of mouth" recently. In addition, my brothers undeniably believe in it because they have seen it with their own eyes.

One weird thing about Shell...V-power is actually only in the Premium (91-93 octane). The mid- and lower grade are not advertised with V-power. It just strikes me as odd. In comparison, Chevron advertises Techron in all their grades. According to my brothers, Chevron still led to a bit of knocking in the minivan and Jeep. So, it looks like Shell did indeed improve their gas additive.

So, for me, as stated above, i use mostly Chevron for my Corolla (regular gas; thus my reservation about 87-oct Shell) and either Shell or Chevron for my G (premium all the time since it is required). My Fiance is still pretty cheap and uses the cheapest gas in her Highlander. She's slowly switching over to my philosophy (good or bad, we will see).

Chevron does say all grades have Techron.....but look close on the Chevron pumps and the 87 says "With Techron," the 91 says "With MORE Techron" and the 94 says "With EVEN MORE Techron," or something to that effect.....so I guess they put more additive in the higher grades as well.

I'll admit that if the Chevron was still in town (it closed last year), I would probably still get some 94 octane there once and awhile....the highest available within a 1/2 hour drive is 91 now.

And you're definetly right about the small town thing playing a role.....if one could find out who's got what fuel in his/her area, it would be interesting to see tho.

 

[Koz]

If you want the best Premium fuel get Amoco Ultimate (It

 

[qballjr13]

I'll admit that if the Chevron was still in town (it closed last year), I would probably still get some 94 octane there once and awhile....

Northof49 - Are you saying that you switch grades of gas often? I would think that would cause a knock if you keep switching back and forth.

 

[khaug]

Our '03 V8 runs noticably rougher on 87 octane regular under heavy load, and if you hook up our OBD II tool, you can see the knock sensor dialing the ignition timing back. I run premium fuel to tow my 4.000# trailer because of this, but run regular or midgrade at other times.

I have no doubt that the truck runs more efficiently when using premium. Is this cost effective? I have no idea.

Bottom line: Suggest you run some numbers. I believe you'll find that using premium fuel isn't that much more expensive than regular, considering the increment of MPG improvement you can expect with premium.

I also suggest you look beyond this issue. Toyota is the reliability leader of the world, and I'd not buy anything else to do the job I have to be done. After 5 years with an '98 and three years with our current '03, I think I have the best there is.

Good luck.

 

[Light_Mania]

While the engine might burn premium fuel a little more efficiently than regular fuel due to more optimal spark timing, the premium fuel almost always has a lower specific energy content than regular due to the volume of octane enhancers. This probably comes pretty close to canceling out the mpg benefit of premium under normal duty use, unless the engine seems to run really badly on regular.

Now if you could find gasoline that had a higher octane rating solely because of a higher octane/heptane ratio (I don't think you will), then you wouldn't get that energy content hickey.