4Runner in snow?
- Thread starter Conrad
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[MENTION=50309]Conrad[/MENTION]
I just recently traded in my '07 avalanche for my '16 4Runner TE at the beginning of December. I have put 4000km on it so far, and taken a trip into the Rockies(Jasper, Alberta). I drove on the factory tires for 4 days before installing some stud less ice tires (Blizzak DM-V2's). In my opinion its not the snow that you need to be concerned about, its the ice. That being said I live outside of Edmonton Alberta and regularly commute 40 km to work. I have no issues safely maintaining highway speed(110km/hr). There was a storm a couple weeks ago that did however create some traction issues when driving up the foothills outside of Hinton, Alberta.... But I am also used to having a V8 with 4Auto, and not having to worry about downshifting to maintain speed going up hill.... on black ice. My tires were also at 35psi, in -40 Deg C weather, and after knocking them down to 31psi I experience a lot less issues.... Go Figure haha
My recommendation is take a trail and a limited out for a test drive and see which you feel more comfortable in. Coming from my avalanche there are certainly days when I miss having the confidence of 4Auto, but winter highway driving is certainly doable with a trail. In town I have next to no issues, and if there is a situation where I think there may be 4WD solves it with ease.
I just recently traded in my '07 avalanche for my '16 4Runner TE at the beginning of December. I have put 4000km on it so far, and taken a trip into the Rockies(Jasper, Alberta). I drove on the factory tires for 4 days before installing some stud less ice tires (Blizzak DM-V2's). In my opinion its not the snow that you need to be concerned about, its the ice. That being said I live outside of Edmonton Alberta and regularly commute 40 km to work. I have no issues safely maintaining highway speed(110km/hr). There was a storm a couple weeks ago that did however create some traction issues when driving up the foothills outside of Hinton, Alberta.... But I am also used to having a V8 with 4Auto, and not having to worry about downshifting to maintain speed going up hill.... on black ice. My tires were also at 35psi, in -40 Deg C weather, and after knocking them down to 31psi I experience a lot less issues.... Go Figure haha
My recommendation is take a trail and a limited out for a test drive and see which you feel more comfortable in. Coming from my avalanche there are certainly days when I miss having the confidence of 4Auto, but winter highway driving is certainly doable with a trail. In town I have next to no issues, and if there is a situation where I think there may be 4WD solves it with ease.
Jetboy
New member
Can you guys explain why you want a 4runner? It seems as though highlander is much more of the type of vehicle you should drive based on your wishes. The only place you can tell the difference between 4hi and awd is city driving on dry roads. A highlander is much better at city or highway driving. It's awd. If you're not going to use the truck features - why would you want to accept all the downsides of having a body on frame SUV? Is it just the image?
There's plenty to like about upgrading to the limited. I'm not anti-awd. It's really neither here nor there for me. There's basically no meaningful difference other than being bothered to move the lever/dial once in a while. But if the awd system is the compelling factor - it would seem like you're looking at the wrong vehicle. The wrong class of vehicle too.
I have both, so I have a pretty good comparison between them. Have you considered a Highlander/Pilot/midsize crossover? The're pretty good at just about everything except utility work functions.
There's plenty to like about upgrading to the limited. I'm not anti-awd. It's really neither here nor there for me. There's basically no meaningful difference other than being bothered to move the lever/dial once in a while. But if the awd system is the compelling factor - it would seem like you're looking at the wrong vehicle. The wrong class of vehicle too.
I have both, so I have a pretty good comparison between them. Have you considered a Highlander/Pilot/midsize crossover? The're pretty good at just about everything except utility work functions.
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1engineer
Moderator
Exactly. A nice CUV gets better gas mileage, rides better, has AWD, has as much or more room, has a bunch of safety stuff, has a nicer interior and in the Highlanders case has the Toyota reliability. Judging by some of these posts above they never need the actual utility of a 4Runner. Highlanders go on dirt roads just fine.
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I chose to buy a 4Runner because I want a vehicle that is capable enough to handle reasonably rugged backcountry roads/tracks in the Colorado High Country, deserts over in Utah, etc. while also being a rock solid on-road snow vehicle in the winter. I want the load carrying capabilities, ability to easily upgrade suspension components to possibly install a minor lift in the future.
I want a vehicle I can put AT tires on and use to access remote trailheads for hiking, spring backcountry skiing and dispersed camping, and would like something that could form a base for a RTT. I'm not interested in modifying for any crazy rock crawling or "overlanding," but I want a vehicle that is more capable on rugged roads than an Outback.
However, I also want that vehicle to be a rock solid on-road vehicle in winter driving conditions. I'm an avid skier who is fond of taking road trips to chase storms when my schedule and budget allows. The TEP is fantastic when the roads are truly bad, but for long distance winter driving in mixed conditions, nothing will beat AWD.
The appeal of the Limited is that it offers full time 4WD/AWD with the additional capability that comes from being able to lock the center diff/use low range if needed.
I want a vehicle I can put AT tires on and use to access remote trailheads for hiking, spring backcountry skiing and dispersed camping, and would like something that could form a base for a RTT. I'm not interested in modifying for any crazy rock crawling or "overlanding," but I want a vehicle that is more capable on rugged roads than an Outback.
However, I also want that vehicle to be a rock solid on-road vehicle in winter driving conditions. I'm an avid skier who is fond of taking road trips to chase storms when my schedule and budget allows. The TEP is fantastic when the roads are truly bad, but for long distance winter driving in mixed conditions, nothing will beat AWD.
The appeal of the Limited is that it offers full time 4WD/AWD with the additional capability that comes from being able to lock the center diff/use low range if needed.
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Kennyr44
New member
You can't do tight turns in 4wd like getting in and out of your garage or parking with the non Limited. It binds too bad. Unacceptable to me. Also my wife likes the bigger size and truck feel. She would even go bigger like Escalade etc. Maybe the next 4 Runner will be amazing with the safety features I want.
DurangoMax
Member
Avid Skier - Lovin the Trail in the Snow
Very pleased with my decision back in November to go with the Trail with KDSS. Moved from a Subaru Forester and have never looked back. I really liked the Subaru and AWD but wanted the extra weight and ground clearance. I'm not new to 4WD so know to slide it into 4H when the roads start to get slick. I wanted the Trail over the Limited as I wanted KDSS and the CRAWL features.
Very pleased with my decision back in November to go with the Trail with KDSS. Moved from a Subaru Forester and have never looked back. I really liked the Subaru and AWD but wanted the extra weight and ground clearance. I'm not new to 4WD so know to slide it into 4H when the roads start to get slick. I wanted the Trail over the Limited as I wanted KDSS and the CRAWL features.
I respect that, I don't want every 4Runner to be a Limited, the variety of options available across the model line is great. Different strokes for different folks.
Although I will add, if I'm going to drive a part-time 4wd vehicle, I do love having an actual lever to shift between 2 and 4 wheel drives. :rockon:
I just think for a snow driving vehicle, the Limited drivetrain is a much better match for my needs/desires.
Although I will add, if I'm going to drive a part-time 4wd vehicle, I do love having an actual lever to shift between 2 and 4 wheel drives. :rockon:
I just think for a snow driving vehicle, the Limited drivetrain is a much better match for my needs/desires.
jrob
New member
All about being pro active with the surrender lever.
BTW how's the snow? I hear good things, headed up in two weeks.
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I just wish I had been able to drive both vehicles on slick roads, one trip around the block in those conditions and I never would have purchased a TEP.
I forgot just how handicapped a RWD vehicle is by the slightest loss of traction.
I accelerate like a grandpa, to the point where I rarely go a week without getting the "one finger salute" from someone pulling around to pass me as I leave a stoplight, and on wet pavement the traction control is clicking away like Flipper the Dolphin in the midst of a cocaine bender while the rear wheels get around to hooking up with the pavement.
My family has driven nothing but Audi Quattro's, Subaru's or Acuras with their SH-AWD since 1995, so it has literally been decades since I have experienced wheelspin on wet pavement, and that isn't something I wish to feel again.
In the interest of full disclosure, the 4Runner is the first vehicle I purchased entirely on my own, and a big part of why I'm beating myself up is that I was fully in the driver's seat and still made a huge mistake with the model I purchased. I didn't think it would be a problem given all the modern gizmos to help with traction, but after some real world driving experience with the vehicle, on 3 different sets of tires now, I can see that it is.
I bought the truck on NYE morning, and by midnight, I was regretting not going with the Limited. 1400 miles and three sets of tires later, I feel the exact same way. It's a gorgeous truck, and I would drive it almost anywhere DURING a snowstorm, but for the 3 or 4 days after when the roads are scattered with patches of ice, side streets may not be plowed, etc. it falls flat to the point that it will be sitting in the driveway while I take the bus to work. Those mixed conditions require you to make either a large sacrifice in traction for the sake of handling, or to make a big compromise in how the vehicle handles in order to not be a sitting duck every time you need to pull out into traffic.
I forgot just how handicapped a RWD vehicle is by the slightest loss of traction.
I accelerate like a grandpa, to the point where I rarely go a week without getting the "one finger salute" from someone pulling around to pass me as I leave a stoplight, and on wet pavement the traction control is clicking away like Flipper the Dolphin in the midst of a cocaine bender while the rear wheels get around to hooking up with the pavement.
My family has driven nothing but Audi Quattro's, Subaru's or Acuras with their SH-AWD since 1995, so it has literally been decades since I have experienced wheelspin on wet pavement, and that isn't something I wish to feel again.
In the interest of full disclosure, the 4Runner is the first vehicle I purchased entirely on my own, and a big part of why I'm beating myself up is that I was fully in the driver's seat and still made a huge mistake with the model I purchased. I didn't think it would be a problem given all the modern gizmos to help with traction, but after some real world driving experience with the vehicle, on 3 different sets of tires now, I can see that it is.
I bought the truck on NYE morning, and by midnight, I was regretting not going with the Limited. 1400 miles and three sets of tires later, I feel the exact same way. It's a gorgeous truck, and I would drive it almost anywhere DURING a snowstorm, but for the 3 or 4 days after when the roads are scattered with patches of ice, side streets may not be plowed, etc. it falls flat to the point that it will be sitting in the driveway while I take the bus to work. Those mixed conditions require you to make either a large sacrifice in traction for the sake of handling, or to make a big compromise in how the vehicle handles in order to not be a sitting duck every time you need to pull out into traffic.
e60ral
Banned
if its binding it means it has traction, which means you could just use 2WD
i've never had problem parking in snow, i ran errands all last weekend in 4WD and didn't have a problem getting into any parking spots or parallel parking on my street
Get better tires, that's not normal
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What pressure are your Blizzaks set at? I have the same DMV2's as you, and when mine where installed they set them a little too high. Just a couple pounds less and I had a noticeable traction increase.
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jrob
New member
Sorry but your issue isn't in the drive train. It's in the drivers seat.
You should really go drive a Limited in the snow to ensure it actually does any better for you over the standard 4wd of the TE. Rear locker is a big sacrifice to make simply because you aren't used to having to manually turn on 4wd. Be more proactive in pulling that 4wd lever and the TE will handle ANY conditions you encounter between Durango and Jackson Hole with no issues. This much I can personally verify.
Hey OP--
Don't be so hard on yourself. Sounds like you might be young. This won't be the last decision you question. If buying a Toyota 4Runner TEP is such a huge regret for you, well, we should all be so lucky to have that as our big regret.
But I have to observe that it seems you are racked with analysis paralysis.
You drive like a "grandpa" yet encounter wheel spin on wet pavement that is so bad it reminds you of a dolphin on crack (?). You want a computer to handle the transfer of power for you, yet you also want to mod some and go into the backcountry of Colorado. Basically, you want a truck but expect it to handle like an Audi.
You can't get all these things in one vehicle, I say. Hey, I get it. I have an AWD Sienna and yes there are differences between AWD and 4WD. And yes, you can mod the LE a bit. But with the 20" wheels, lack of locker/Crawl/MTS/KDSS, the LE is not going to meet all your stated needs either.
I've driven my TE all over ski country, including the dreaded mixed conditions at higher speeds on I-70. It was a learning curve compared to AWD, but not a particularly long or steep one. I'm very confident in the vehicle now.
Best of luck!
Don't be so hard on yourself. Sounds like you might be young. This won't be the last decision you question. If buying a Toyota 4Runner TEP is such a huge regret for you, well, we should all be so lucky to have that as our big regret.
But I have to observe that it seems you are racked with analysis paralysis.
You drive like a "grandpa" yet encounter wheel spin on wet pavement that is so bad it reminds you of a dolphin on crack (?). You want a computer to handle the transfer of power for you, yet you also want to mod some and go into the backcountry of Colorado. Basically, you want a truck but expect it to handle like an Audi.
You can't get all these things in one vehicle, I say. Hey, I get it. I have an AWD Sienna and yes there are differences between AWD and 4WD. And yes, you can mod the LE a bit. But with the 20" wheels, lack of locker/Crawl/MTS/KDSS, the LE is not going to meet all your stated needs either.
I've driven my TE all over ski country, including the dreaded mixed conditions at higher speeds on I-70. It was a learning curve compared to AWD, but not a particularly long or steep one. I'm very confident in the vehicle now.
Best of luck!
1engineer
Moderator
Again, get what you want, but I would seriously test drive, test drive, test drive the Limited against other vehicles (Highlander, Pilot, etc) BEFORE you buy again. Why? Full time 4WD is NOT AWD and there are disadvantages to Full time 4WD too. Please read this 4WD or AWD? Know the Difference ? Gear Patrol before you go making another personal costly mistake.
One last piece of advice... Never buy a vehicle based on looks alone or what you THINK you are going to do with it.
Now, I live in an area where we get on average over 120" of snow annually, yet I drive in 2WD quite often! Even with 4" of snow on the highway! Why? Because 4WD does not do anything except help you accelerate in slick conditions! It does not help you stop. Full time 4WD will not help you go around corners like the Super Handling SH-AWD from Acura. Vehicle stability control in the 4Runner is what you have to keep you on the road. That's all, and it works well but it has nothing to do with 4WD, either part or full time.
I have two children, a daughter that is now 24 and a son that is 21. They both own AWD vehicles now. I taught them to drive in the snow in my wife's AWD. I won't let them drive my 4Runner because it is too different from their RAV4 and Subaru. The brakes are different. The accelerator pedal is different. The drivetrain is different. The handling is different. It's a different beast. Not bad, just different.
Good luck but it sure sounds like you want something that does not exist - A true off road ready BOF sport utility with all the advantages of AWD for the snow. Make sure you really read the link I posted above.
veloindy
New member
I've owned 3 Subies, a 3rd, 4th, and 5th Gen 4Runner. I'll take my 5th Gen over any of them in the snow. Never had a problem. In fact, my WIFE pulled a high centered Outback out 3 weeks ago in Breck after she dropped us off. The guy said his next car would be a 4Runner! The 4Runner is nothing short of amazing vehicle in snow. Of course this is coming from CO. We do not get the icy mix people on the east coast get. I can see where an AWD would be useful. In deep CO snow, I'm getting in a 4Runner.
Well I finally understand why I know multiple people living in the mountains who own a 4Runner and Subaru.
And it is certainly true that at least part of the difference is in my head when it comes to real world advantages of it, but I haven't been able to shake that.
I know you insist that under most conditions AWD/full time 4WD doesn't make much of a difference but there are advantages to it even in certain wet conditions where you wouldn't engage a part time system.
I get that you live somewhere snowy, and I am not trying to turn this into a d!ck measuring contest, but I've lived somewhere that averages close to 120 inches of snow per month from November to April for the past 6 years, and have driven all over the snowiest parts of the west working in the ski industry, so I'm a pretty competent winter driver.
On winding, twisty, steep mountain roads, that are variably slick, RWD can be a dangerous proposition, while locked 4HI would be excessive or could cause binding on tighter corners and switchbacks. And while pulling the lever engaged 4HI quickly, it isn't instant. I also think the lever and the front cupholder should be swapped so that it is easier to reach down and engage or disengage 4HI without taking your eyes off the road.
I'm fortunate to be hemming and hawing about which model of $40K+ SUV I bought, so I understand I either need to do something about it or stop *****ing.
I wanted a 4Runner that was equipped with the best of what Toyota offered, because as I said, I may do some slight mods, but I have no intention of doing anything extensive. The fact of the matter is, both the TEP and the Limited are very nicely equipped, just in different ways.
And it is certainly true that at least part of the difference is in my head when it comes to real world advantages of it, but I haven't been able to shake that.
I know you insist that under most conditions AWD/full time 4WD doesn't make much of a difference but there are advantages to it even in certain wet conditions where you wouldn't engage a part time system.
I get that you live somewhere snowy, and I am not trying to turn this into a d!ck measuring contest, but I've lived somewhere that averages close to 120 inches of snow per month from November to April for the past 6 years, and have driven all over the snowiest parts of the west working in the ski industry, so I'm a pretty competent winter driver.
On winding, twisty, steep mountain roads, that are variably slick, RWD can be a dangerous proposition, while locked 4HI would be excessive or could cause binding on tighter corners and switchbacks. And while pulling the lever engaged 4HI quickly, it isn't instant. I also think the lever and the front cupholder should be swapped so that it is easier to reach down and engage or disengage 4HI without taking your eyes off the road.
I'm fortunate to be hemming and hawing about which model of $40K+ SUV I bought, so I understand I either need to do something about it or stop *****ing.
I wanted a 4Runner that was equipped with the best of what Toyota offered, because as I said, I may do some slight mods, but I have no intention of doing anything extensive. The fact of the matter is, both the TEP and the Limited are very nicely equipped, just in different ways.
Toffees
Member
No, I'm quite certain there's a new AWD/4WD feature in some of the Land Rover lines and also the new Raptor. Sometimes called "Domino Drive" or simply PD (I believe it's formally named Placebo Domino), with a simple push of the button it allows normal driving in most imaginable adverse conditions. When coupled with lane assist, navigation, and adaptive cruise control, in really bad situations it will automatically direct you to the nearest Starbucks.
He needs to find one of these, preferably in black, and it should solve his troubles.
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