4runner no start

[shahsmerdis]

Hi everyone,

Looks like my noble 3rd gen went down with the ship and seem to stop turning on the same day my dad passed away. (His car)

I put jumper cables on the car and still doesn't start. All electrical operations (head lights, electronic brake accumulator, etc) of the car seem to work except it seems like there isn't enough amps to get the starter going.

The battery is definitely dead, it read 2.5 volts. With another 4runner wired up to the battery does it matter if the battery is dead? Can the other 4runner alone start the car? I left the other car charging the battery for like 10-15 minutes.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMcAjSXkVh-npbe8GQBIuQOAu0TQJi0XsKC6g

Does this sound like the typical starter problem I keep reading on these cars? Valve covers has been leaking a while I wonder if that has anything to do with this.

I just cleaned the contacts and took off all the battery terminal protectant that was on there. Going to check again when it daylight and stops raining

Items on my list to check

1) retry to jump car with cleaned terminal .

2) check fuse
3) check battery voltage to starter relay.
4) check battery voltage to starter.

might go a head and Tow this thing to the shop as I'm not in the state of mind to look too deeply. Just wanted to know if the video had a tale tell sign of something I should be looking out for before I do.

Thank you

 

[Thefishguy77]

Stupid question. Have you checked starter fuses and/or relays? Also check to make sure you don't have any bad connections from the artery to the starter. Check to see if you have power getting to the starter but just not engaging/energizing the solenoid.

And yes another 4Runner or car with a similarly sized battery/charging system should have enough power to spin your over if you let it charge for 10-15 minutes.

When you hooked up the cables did you hear the other rigs motor step down at all? If not you probably didn't have a good connection and then no it wouldn't help start it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shahsmerdis]

Hi there,

Haven't started to check relays because battery was so dead and got dark.

I Think I heard the engine change RPM. The car that doesn't start alarm went off, and the windows started working when they didn't above. I cleaned the contacts, going to clean the jumper cables too since they seem rusted, and try again tomorrow morning.

Just wondering if the cranking sound, sounded abnormal, or just sounded like it wasn't getting enough juice.

thank you

 

[fourfive]

If the current battery is completely dead, it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and get a new one to see if it starts up since you'll probably need to get one anyway. The few times I've tried to jump a completely dead battery, it's been hit or miss if it would start up.

 

[shahsmerdis]

got new optimum battery, still no start!!! my cheap volt meter said 12.2, so maybe what they gave me was also low. not sure how accurate my volt meter is. advanced said it was charged

I hear something turn on with the engine, any ideas what is humming? key on, engine off. maybe that is what is causing everything to fail.

car is making me so upset.

https://goo.gl/photos/SJt47Ko3i7kXy8DT7

edit, sounds like pump or some sort. sounds like an evap soloniod?

 

[zwalker16]

Starter is bad. Mine did the same thing.

 

[85straight]

You can also try to "hot wire" the starter by leaving the key in the on position and disconnecting the signal wire from the starter. Then go straight from the battery to the signal connector on the starter. If it turns over you may have a relay issue

 

[shahsmerdis]

Starter is bad. Mine did the same thing.

What sign that it was a starter the noise? I touched the starter no vibration from it.

You can also try to "hot wire" the starter by leaving the key in the on position and disconnecting the signal wire from the starter. Then go straight from the battery to the signal connector on the starter. If it turns over you may have a relay issue

ah I forgot to test the relay. I was thinking of testing the starter relay with multimeter. Hot wiring like that will probably need a pretty thick wire no? I guess that will rule out wring too.

 

[85straight]

What sign that it was a starter the noise? I touched the starter no vibration from it.



ah I forgot to test the relay. I was thinking of testing the starter relay with multimeter. Hot wiring like that will probably need a pretty thick wire no? I guess that will rule out wring too.

Not really smaller gauge would be ok(12,14g) because if the starter is working the second you make contact with the to the starter it will turn. The starter receives the full 12 volts instantly to signal it to turn

To reiterate you only need to make contact with said wire, do not hold it for more than a second or two

 

[shahsmerdis]

still no luck with battery jump starter, going to get a more accurate volt meter and start probing. My best guess, starter or some wire got chewed up.

 

[mtbtim]

still no luck with battery jump starter, going to get a more accurate volt meter and start probing. My best guess, starter or some wire got chewed up.

I'm curious, do you drive this 4runner regularly? I'm just wondering how your battery got so low in volts. Maybe you left a dome light on.

When you mentioned a wire getting chewed up, that reminded me that rodents sometimes nest in engine compartments and then end up chewing up electrical wires and causing a ton of damage. Have you noticed anything in the engine compartment that looks like a rodent has made a home in there?

If your engine compartment looks rodent free, and your electrical connections and ground connections are tight and free of corrosion, I'd just pull the starter and test it.

I found this video and the guy does a really good job explaining how to test the starter.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6x2hIOtBfzE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You can use my video below as a tutorial to get your starter out. If you find out the starter motor is good but the solenoid isn't working right, maybe you can fix the solenoid by just replacing contacts and plunger.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WV1t5-wcoOI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[shahsmerdis]

I'm curious, do you drive this 4runner regularly? I'm just wondering how your battery got so low in volts. Maybe you left a dome light on.

When you mentioned a wire getting chewed up, that reminded me that rodents sometimes nest in engine compartments and then end up chewing up electrical wires and causing a ton of damage. Have you noticed anything in the engine compartment that looks like a rodent has made a home in there?

If your engine compartment looks rodent free, and your electrical connections and ground connections are tight and free of corrosion, I'd just pull the starter and test it.

I found this video and the guy does a really good job explaining how to test the starter.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6x2hIOtBfzE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You can use my video below as a tutorial to get your starter out. If you find out the starter motor is good but the solenoid isn't working right, maybe you can fix the solenoid by just replacing contacts and plunger.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WV1t5-wcoOI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Oh boy is there rust. I did clean the battery terminals, And I might order new ones just because they still look like they are in bad shape. I've been watching your video a few times (many times actually) and I think pulling the starter might be out of my capabilities at the current moment. Looks like the only way to test is is to pull it right?

I will check out all grounds and lose wires. I wonder is there a flow chart to check the key ignition system before i pull the starter?

:edit it was driven regularly, except my father passed away recently, so his car wasn't touched for a week or two. however before that I was getting all kinds of battery issues. I thought mostly because he would do short 10 min trips with the car, if not 20 min. Probably not long enough.

 

[Scramble]

Sorry to hear about your Dad. The night my Father died my dog ran away & then on the way to my Mothers house I spun a wheel bearing & it welded itself to the spindle! (78 Coupe Deville) What a fvckin' night! LOL When it rains it pours! Hang it there man!
I think it's your starter. Easy fix.

 

[TheDurk]

Oh boy is there rust. I did clean the battery terminals, And I might order new ones just because they still look like they are in bad shape. I've been watching your video a few times (many times actually) and I think pulling the starter might be out of my capabilities at the current moment. Looks like the only way to test is is to pull it right?

I will check out all grounds and lose wires. I wonder is there a flow chart to check the key ignition system before i pull the starter?

:edit it was driven regularly, except my father passed away recently, so his car wasn't touched for a week or two. however before that I was getting all kinds of battery issues. I thought mostly because he would do short 10 min trips with the car, if not 20 min. Probably not long enough.

El Durko's Rule #8 is verify battery before any no start/no crank troubleshooting. This means a LOAD test--not a voltage test--, or sub in a known good battery from another vehicle. Ignore this, and it will almost guarantee the issue is the battery.

That done, the best way to troubleshoot this is at the starter relay. There are four wires to the relay. One of them is not doing what it is supposed to do. Figuring out which one will narrow down your task considerably.

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/ewdtmc2/ewdtmpdf/ewdsourc/2002/024runne/systemci/013sis.pdf

This is 2002, but they are all pretty much the same in this area. First, check if you have contact power. Pull relay. See if you have full-time 12V+ power on Pin 5.

Then see if you have coil power. See if you have 12V+ on Pin 1 when key is turned to START.

Then confirm you have ground to the coil on Pin 2. (not usually an issue, but proceeding logically with electricity pays dividends).

Then, get a short length of #12 wire or bigger and bridge Pin 3 and Pin 5 and see if starter turns. Hold the wire by the insulation. You can also do this with a pair of needle-nose pliers with insulated handles. Get the RIGHT pins!--the link below shows which is which if there is any doubt. If the other tests are good, and it doesn't crank here, then issue is your signal wire or starter itself. Jump 12V+ direct to small lug on starter to rule out signal wire. If no crank, time to pull starter.

If all above tests are good, test relay as below:

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/02toyrm/02toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/st5vzfe/starel/insp.pdf

Post back if you need help doing any of that.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Sorry to hear about your Dad. The night my Father died my dog ran away & then on the way to my Mothers house I spun a wheel bearing & it welded itself to the spindle! (78 Coupe Deville) What a fvckin' night! LOL When it rains it pours! Hang it there man!
I think it's your starter. Easy fix.

Thank you, its raining pretty freaking hard here...
Everytime I hear that starter run I get so ****ing depressed.... I tried cpr on my dad, I didn't even have a chance.

I got a few important things to do for my mom, but this is giving me the best satisfaction trying to bring the car back. so im kinda winging it here. I'm an electrical engineer, so I can probably figure out the wiring stuff one way or another. If it comes to removing the starter though I may have to tow it. Not sure how confident I am in that aspect, but this is something I will to do myself as much as possible .

El Durko's Rule #8 is verify battery before any no start/no crank troubleshooting. This means a LOAD test--not a voltage test--, or sub in a known good battery from another vehicle. Ignore this, and it will almost guarantee the issue is the battery.

That done, the best way to troubleshoot this is at the starter relay. There are four wires to the relay. One of them is not doing what it is supposed to do. Figuring out which one will narrow down your task considerably.

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/ewdtmc2/ewdtmpdf/ewdsourc/2002/024runne/systemci/013sis.pdf

This is 2002, but they are all pretty much the same in this area. First, check if you have contact power. Pull relay. See if you have full-time 12V+ power on Pin 5.

Then see if you have coil power. See if you have 12V+ on Pin 1 when key is turned to START.

Then confirm you have ground to the coil on Pin 2. (not usually an issue, but proceeding logically with electricity pays dividends).

Then, get a short length of #12 wire or bigger and bridge Pin 3 and Pin 5 and see if starter turns. Hold the wire by the insulation. You can also do this with a pair of needle-nose pliers with insulated handles. Get the RIGHT pins!--the link below shows which is which if there is any doubt. If the other tests are good, and it doesn't crank here, then issue is your signal wire or starter itself. Jump 12V+ direct to small lug on starter to rule out signal wire. If no crank, time to pull starter.

If all above tests are good, test relay as below:

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/02toyrm/02toypdf/02rmsour/2002/024runne/st5vzfe/starel/insp.pdf

Post back if you need help doing any of that.

edit: just saw the battery part.

I just got a new battery optima battery (Red top) from advanced uato. they claimed it was fully charged, even put portable battery charger on there, I will test voltage one more time and also put my 4runner to jump the car. I can also swap the 2004 4runner battery in there and see if that works too.

Thank you so much, this is the info I was looking for. I definitely will post back with questions. I'll probably post back this weekend when I've gone through everything I could have.

Quick question, by slowly cranking the engine the way I am, does that risk putting too much gas into the engine? or do I need ignition/ spark before gas is released?

Thank you all!

 

[shahsmerdis]

Btw does anyone know the part number for the negative battery terminal?

 

[shahsmerdis]

TL/DR it turned on! She lives!

new battery needed some extra juice to turn on. Did a voltage drop test, no noticeable drop between starter contact and battery positive. But battery voltage was below 12.6V when cranking. tested relay, followed the wiring diagram [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] provided. All tested fine.

Tried to jump it with a remote battery jumper didn't work. cleaned off my jumper cables, said a prayer, jumped it, and it turned on !

battery terminals are shot anyway, so going to order those. negative battery terminals are lose so that might be it. Anyone negative battery terminal just come as a complete cable or is the a part number?

one of the headlights doesn't seem to turn on, and the headlights didn't seem to turn off. so maybe a relay and/or bulb is out. But when we finally got there, headlights turned on/off, but bulb was still out. this might be the source of the battery drain we have been having, A stuck relay.

Quickly drove it to mechanic for an oil change and to double check to ensure we wont get stranded again. Its there overnight until monday.

edit: maybe ill load test the battery too. Might be possible to get second bad battery from advanced auto who knows!