4Runner Trail Purchase Pending..

[Texas777]

Hello everyone! I've been lurking here for a few months and have spent countless hours reading about all things 5th Gen 4Runner Trail and used the search function. Despite my best efforts, I'm still on the fence about a couple of things that I'm hoping to get some opinions on from the members here. Planning to purchase in the next week or two depending on a few things:

1) Gulf States Toyota doesn't purchase ANY 4Runners equipped with KDSS in all of their infinite wisdom, so I'm tied to purchasing out of state if I want this option. I've driven the non-KDSS version, but don't have access to a KDSS to drive, so can only rely on the other threads here for how great the system performs (have read them all). I plan to level it with Bilstein 5100's and have a rudimentary understanding of how the KDSS hydraulics work in conjunction with the sway bars.
Question: Can I change out springs, install aftermarket Hotchkis sway bar, etc. to help mitigate some of the handling delta between KDSS and non-KDSS setups? Or is it a "just can't get there from here" thing, and getting KDSS is the only practical option to reduce body roll, etc. and not ruin the ride quality?

2) This 4Runner will be used to haul clients around as a "company car" so I can't get too wild with the suspension setup. It will also be going to my son or daughter as their first car in ~5 years. I'm concerend about future maintenance costs of KDSS as this will be a 10+ year vehicle for us (fingers crossed).
Question: If I do go KDSS, should I just get an extended warranty through the dealer in Hutchison, KS and not worry about it? I'll likely put 125K miles on it before it goes to one of the kids, so the 7yr/125K mi. Platinum warranty will run out about the time they get it. I don't want to sink $2K +/- into replacing KDSS components right after the kids go off to college. Anyone here have 100k+ miles on their KDSS systems, and if so, how is it holding up?

Sorry for the long first post, but can't seem to arrive at a meaningful conclusion despite searches. Analysis paralysis! Thanks in advance for the guidance and opinions.

 

[GiGi's 1996]

Welcome to the Forum!

Well, I really do not have anything to say about KDSS. I do not know too much about it.
My question to you: Why in the world do you need a Trail if (as you have described) the truck will only haul clients around and then be handed down to one of your kids? In addition, why do you need a Trail with KDSS?


IMO, the 2014 4Runner, the "plain 'ol base model", SR5 rides and handles and drives and goes off road like a dream. I would like to test a KDSS 4R and compare the ride to my SR5 with 5100's. How much nicer could it possibly ride?

All you Trail owners out there, how many have actually taken their truck off road?

 

[rick.deckard]

been there, done that

I went through the same analysis as a previous Trail Edition owner with KDSS. I went with a SR5 Premium for my 2nd 4Runner. For my mall assault vehicle, having KDSS, Multi Terrain Select, Crawl and the rear locker aren't features I get to use more than a couple weeks a year, if I'm lucky. I'd worry more about the electronics going bad than the mechanical features like KDSS if you get a warranty. But, I think the warranty is usually just additional profit for the dealer most of the time. Good luck with your decision.

 

[NoDak]

if your going to hand me down this vehicle in 5-7 yrs with 125k+ plus miles, get the SR5.

the K.I.S.S. method will prevail in the long run and you wont have to worry about one of those fancy systems breaking after the ext warranty.

 

[Texas777]

@ GiGi's: Good question. While clients will be hauled in it, and it will be passed down to one of the kids, it will probably see limited offroad use as well, but that's not the driver for the Trail purchase. It's simply this...I like it best, as you don't see as many of them here. From what I've read, KDSS is as useful (if not more useful) on-road as it is off-road. While the 4Runner will see some offroad use at Big Bend National Park, a few camping trips annually, the deer lease, and Padre Island National Seashore 4x4 only section, it will be a pavement pounder 90% of the time. I would bet this is not uncommon with many 4x 4 vehicles these days, including Trail 4Runners, yet we still buy them.

I'm not a big fan of body roll in vehicles, even trucks and SUV's. Sold my Z71 4x4 Tahoe as I got tired of the way it drove...like a big, lumbering SUV. Driving a Sierra Denali AWD now. It's ride is firm but not harsh, it corners pretty flat for a truck, and road holding is great for what it is. Trying not to make the same Tahoe mistake with the 4Runner. Want the ride quality that best fits my taste, but also want to strike a balance with dependability. That's what I'm trying to work through. Without having the benefit of driving a KDSS equipped 4Runner, I'm left with relying on the opinions and experience of others as to whether there are dependability issues with that system.

[MENTION=3049]RICK[/MENTION]: All good points. So you had a 4Runner with KDSS previous to your SR5? Did you notice a big difference in how your current 4Runner drives, and would you select a non-KDSS version again? As for the warranty, I would typically agree, but thanks to this forum there is a source that sells them for about $100 over cost, vs. the usual 300% dealer mark-up. You just have to purchase it in person in Hutchison, which isn't a big deal, as I get there for business purposes anyway.

Do appreciate the replies from both of you!

 

[Texas777]

NoDAK, I'm sure you are right, less is more where dependability is concerned. Just want to enjoy what I'm driving for the next 5-6 years as well. Life is a series of trade-offs for most I guess. :frusty:

 

[jmarthsr]

I was in the same boat as you but up in the FT Worth Area. Stuck with the Gulf States no KDSS option. I researched on here like you and knew before that I would level it at least for now, maybe a 3 inch lift down the road. I keep my vehicles for 10 + year so I never know what I'm going to do 5 years down the road. My 2014 T.E.P handles just fine on the road. A little bit of nose dive but from what I have read the Bilsteins will help some. After 6 months of ownership coming from an F-150 Crew Lariat I am a happy camper. With KDSS POSSIBLY being an expensive repair or if you are going to heavily modify, removal it was an option I can live without. Just my .02.

 

[rick.deckard]

[snip]

[MENTION=3049]RICK[/MENTION]: All good points. So you had a 4Runner with KDSS previous to your SR5? Did you notice a big difference in how your current 4Runner drives, and would you select a non-KDSS version again? As for the warranty, I would typically agree, but thanks to this forum there is a source that sells them for about $100 over cost, vs. the usual 300% dealer mark-up. You just have to purchase it in person in Hutchison, which isn't a big deal, as I get there for business purposes anyway.

Yup, had a TE with KDSS. You'll get different opinions in the forum, but I don't think KDSS improves on-road driving much, if at all. I think people get it confused with X-REAS. I put some Bilstein 5100s on it which *significantly* improved the ride.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can order extended warranties from anyone other than the dealer anymore. You can still order ToyotaCare from dealers outstate. Someone will quickly correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Texas777]

[snip]


Yup, had a TE with KDSS. You'll get different opinions in the forum, but I don't think KDSS improves on-road driving much, if at all. I think people get it confused with X-REAS. I put some Bilstein 5100s on it which *significantly* improved the ride.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can order extended warranties from anyone other than the dealer anymore. You can still order ToyotaCare from dealers outstate. Someone will quickly correct me if I'm wrong.

Buying a local Trail would be a lot easier than out of state, so good to hear that the 5100's made a difference. May well end up being the way I go. The extended warranty I was referring to is from a Toyota dealer out of state, but you have to actually go there to purchase the warranty. Ran across a thread about it on this forum. Remember it saying you can't do it via web or phone anymore, so you are absolutely correct there.

 

[NoDak]

if you going to modify the TE, up to a certain point the KDSS wont be an issue. once you get into mid/heavy mods, your going to yank the KDSS out. save the money and get and SR5 and mod that to your liking if you decide to go that route.

 

[NoDak]

Buying a local Trail would be a lot easier than out of state, so good to hear that the 5100's made a difference. May well end up being the way I go. The extended warranty I was referring to is from a Toyota dealer out of state, but you have to actually go there to purchase the warranty. Ran across a thread about it on this forum. Remember it saying you can't do it via web or phone anymore, so you are absolutely correct there.

another option, buy the vehicle out of state then later on buy the ext warranty local.

since your buying the ext warranty and its not tied to a vehicle, some dealers will deal. I just bought 2 ext warranties from a dealer in state (not the dealer I bought the vehicles from) and it wasn't hard to deal. they were within $150 of the JJ quoted price in the other thread. it wasn't perfect but it was agreeable to both of us.

 

[NWWayne]

KDSS and body roll

As far as KDSS - no KDSS goes here's my opinion. As opinions usually are, it's worth what you paid for it.
I recently bought a T4R Trail with KDSS. For my particular needs, the KDSS was nice, but not essential for off-road use, but the locker, etc of the Trail were quite important.
I drove an SR5 and found that I did not at all liker the body roll that it had. The Trail with KDSS is far superior as far as body roll and stability in sharp turns goes.. The KDSS has little effect on on-road ride other than body roll , the front end dive when braking is not helped by the KDSS, and is still more than I prefer. Shocks, and the like will not have a significant effect on body roll unless you go to the point of an active suspension system
If you look under a KDSS version and a non KDSS version the difference in the size of the sway bar is substantial, explaining the difference in body roll.
As always, YMMV, but that's how it is for me.
NWWayne

 

[VoodooTitan]

The KDSS is specifically designed for off-road use. There may be some instances where KDSS activates on-road but it will only be when wheel lift occurs or there is a change in the hydraulic pressure (severely uneven pavement). Otherwise KDSS is useless for you if you don't intend on going off road often. If this is going to be a 90% on-road vehicle then don't get the KDSS. Just get a limited if you'll be transporting clients. Limited is a bit more luxurious. Leather seats, automatic step bars the come out when the door opens, keyless entry and start. Or get an SR5 with cloth interior, etc. There is also the 2x4 or 4x4 to consider. I think the limited comes in full time 4x4. Something to check on...

With that said, if you're not using the KDSS often, why worry about repair costs. If you're primarily off-road and engaging the system constantly, then I'd worry about maintenance and part replacement. If you're using the KDSS system once a year, then it won't see much wear and tear. So the question is, is it something you will benefit from at any point, and is it worth it to you. If not, then apply the cost of the KDSS to a limited, or save the money and get the SR5 and use the extra $$$ from the KDSS or limited for those few mods you'd get. I'd suggest some runners so your clients don't have to struggle getting into the vehicle, as well as some window tint in the front and if you deem necessary, replace the springs with bilsteins.

 

[VoodooTitan]

also... if you're considering purchasing out of state, there is a dealership in Jacksonville, NC that offers an unlimited lifetime warranty on all their vehicles. They have an agreement with a warranty company which extends the warranty for the life of the vehicle. It can even be passed down, the warranty stays with the vehicle for the life of the vehicle. If you're interested I can put you in touch with the guy I bought mine from, or you can google their site. It was a pleasant experience. They didn't rip me off, took care of me, and it's a military town, so they are used to working deals quickly and moving vehicles.

There should be info about the unlimited lifetime warranty on their website.
http://stevensonauto.com/Lifetime-Warranty/

 

[sandcrawler]

Yup, had a TE with KDSS. You'll get different opinions in the forum, but I don't think KDSS improves on-road driving much, if at all. I think people get it confused with X-REAS. I put some Bilstein 5100s on it which *significantly* improved the ride.

having had an '06 SE w/XREAS and now a '10 TE w/KDSS, here's my different opinion: KDSS significantly improves on-road handling.

the simplest way to put it is to say that KDSS drives like a truck with less body roll; XREAS drives like a car with more body roll. my 2¢

 

[GiGi's 1996]

It's simply this...I like it best, as you don't see as many of them here.

I get it. I hope you find the Trail you desire. Last thing you want to happen is settle for another truck and then see someone driving a Trail and you are sad and mad that you settled.

 

[NoDak]

funny try to quote someone and its blank after multiple tries.

anyway the comment about XREAS drives like a car with more roll, that's if you get decent tires. with these oem 20's man do they squeal in wet/dry compared to previous gens.

 

[JSparky]

The KDSS is specifically designed for off-road use. There may be some instances where KDSS activates on-road but it will only be when wheel lift occurs or there is a change in the hydraulic pressure (severely uneven pavement). Otherwise KDSS is useless for you if you don't intend on going off road often. If this is going to be a 90% on-road vehicle then don't get the KDSS. Just get a limited if you'll be transporting clients. Limited is a bit more luxurious. Leather seats, automatic step bars the come out when the door opens, keyless entry and start. Or get an SR5 with cloth interior, etc. There is also the 2x4 or 4x4 to consider. I think the limited comes in full time 4x4. Something to check on...

With that said, if you're not using the KDSS often, why worry about repair costs. If you're primarily off-road and engaging the system constantly, then I'd worry about maintenance and part replacement. If you're using the KDSS system once a year, then it won't see much wear and tear. So the question is, is it something you will benefit from at any point, and is it worth it to you. If not, then apply the cost of the KDSS to a limited, or save the money and get the SR5 and use the extra $$$ from the KDSS or limited for those few mods you'd get. I'd suggest some runners so your clients don't have to struggle getting into the vehicle, as well as some window tint in the front and if you deem necessary, replace the springs with bilsteins.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is only telling half the story. KDSS-equipped 4Runners feature significantly larger sway bars than sr5 and limited models. It is this feature that greatly improves body roll and overall handling on the road. The advantage for those going offroad is that, traditionally, stiffer sway bars reduce articulation, while KDSS enables the advantages of stiff sway bars on-road with a "disconnected" sway bar off-road.

It would be possible to similarly improve the on-road ride of an sr5 by installing aftermarket sway bars, but I haven't looked into the availability of this.

Personally I think KDSS equipped 4Runners and GX's are vastly superior in on-road performance than non-KDSS... but thats me, everyone has different needs/requirements from their vehicles.

 

[Texas777]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is only telling half the story. KDSS-equipped 4Runners feature significantly larger sway bars than sr5 and limited models. It is this feature that greatly improves body roll and overall handling on the road. The advantage for those going offroad is that, traditionally, stiffer sway bars reduce articulation, while KDSS enables the advantages of stiff sway bars on-road with a "disconnected" sway bar off-road.

It would be possible to similarly improve the on-road ride of an sr5 by installing aftermarket sway bars, but I haven't looked into the availability of this.

Personally I think KDSS equipped 4Runners and GX's are vastly superior in on-road performance than non-KDSS... but thats me, everyone has different needs/requirements from their vehicles.

This was my understanding as well after seeing the videos showing the functionality of the system with hydraulic cylinders here on this site, dampening sway bars and collectors accumulating hydraulic fluid as it passes through the KDSS system. The way I understood it is that the system is actually "active" anytime the 4Runner is in motion as there is nothing to engage electrically or mechanically, and to your point, helps provide better articulation of road by allowing for greater movement of the sway bars.

 

[RCFJ]

Jsparky is right on KDSS DOES NOT increase articulation off road. It has greater articulation compared to a similar thickness sway bar, but still no more than the 4runner w/o KDSS. If you plan on lifting your truck dont bother spending money on KDSS its nothing that a stiffer shock and spring cant do for much cheaper