4th gen for 5th gen 4Runner?

[Jed]

don't you see that this 4th to 5th gen transition is nothing new? it's the same thing that occurred from 3rd to 4th. it happens all the time. your hair splitting over features/functions is a repeat of what always occurs when the newer/better model comes along.

Hair splitting? LOL, this whole thing was centered upon looks. That's MY main reason for avoiding a 5th gen. I simply don't like the looks. End of story.

5th gen is a better made, improved upon truck than the 4th gen both in looks and in features. period. end of story. when you bring finances into the debate, it gets way too personal/complicated to have any sort of worthwhile internet debate.

Okay, you want a debate? Prove what you just said. Explain to us how the 5th gen is better made. And don't bother with the looks because that's subjective and cannot be proven. Again you somehow fail to understand that, but lets move on.

 

[Koz]

I was forced to give up my 4th gen and find a replacement. To be honest I was not crazy about the exterior styling but I know that it could grow on me so I went to the Stealer and took a test drive. The first thing I noted was how cheap the interior looked and how poorly the controls were laid out (stuff like window switches). Again I am a "Toyota Guy" and I was not going to let appearance and control locations discourage me. The test ride was a little bit of a let down because I was used to the V8 and finding out there was no V8 was probably going to be a deal breaker. I do have to say, the updated V6 felt just as powerful as the V8. The real blow was the way they configured the drive-trains. I was used to having the best of everything, luxury, towing ability, and off-road ability. The 4Runner was the truck that all others in its class were measured to. Toyota made a big mistake by only having certain options available on certain models. I also feel they took a step backwards by not offering the V8 and the rear air susp. Here's how they should have been configured; all models should have a center diff and an available V8 (NO 4cyl, what were they thinking), the Trail should have KDSS and a rear locker standard and the Limited should have KDSS standard, rear air and a rear locker optional. I was VERY disappointed with the new 4Runner.

Koz

 

[ToyotaF1Fan]

don't you see that this 4th to 5th gen transition is nothing new? it's the same thing that occurred from 3rd to 4th. it happens all the time. your hair splitting over features/functions is a repeat of what always occurs when the newer/better model comes along.

i'll keep the debate very simple instead of trying to venture off into personal finances, depreciation curves... all SIMPLEton stuff that you guys bring up to make you sound like you're smarter? LOL

5th gen is a better made, improved upon truck than the 4th gen both in looks and in features. period. end of story. when you bring finances into the debate, it gets way too personal/complicated to have any sort of worthwhile internet debate.

Now you are resorting to ad hominem attacks to try to make your point? I have a Bachelors in Accounting as well as my BSN so why don't you try to enlighten me with your facts.

You act as if the changes between generations occurred in a vacuum. The economy has gotten significantly weaker in the US when compared to Japan since the 4th Generation 4-Runner was developed. In addition, there is a currently a much higher emphasis on efficiency than there was before so the cost benefit analysis when developing the new 4-runner had to take that into account (hence no V-, rather a V6 and I-4 being the engine choices). No one would've attacked you had you said it was your opinion that the 5G T4R was better than the 4G T4R, but when you try to pass it off as fact it annoys people including myself. That is before we get into you using the "I have a $100,000 weekend car" (which is likely bull****) to further your argument.

PS: Before calling us SIMPLEtons you should focus on proper spelling, punctuation, and capitalization.

 

[ToyotaF1Fan]

I was forced to give up my 4th gen and find a replacement. To be honest I was not crazy about the exterior styling but I know that it could grow on me so I went to the Stealer and took a test drive. The first thing I noted was how cheap the interior looked and how poorly the controls were laid out (stuff like window switches). Again I am a "Toyota Guy" and I was not going to let appearance and control locations discourage me. The test ride was a little bit of a let down because I was used to the V8 and finding out there was no V8 was probably going to be a deal breaker. I do have to say, the updated V6 felt just as powerful as the V8. The real blow was the way they configured the drive-trains. I was used to having the best of everything, luxury, towing ability, and off-road ability. The 4Runner was the truck that all others in its class were measured to. Toyota made a big mistake by only having certain options available on certain models. I also feel they took a step backwards by not offering the V8 and the rear air susp. Here's how they should have been configured; all models should have a center diff and an available V8 (NO 4cyl, what were they thinking), the Trail should have KDSS and a rear locker standard and the Limited should have KDSS standard, rear air and a rear locker optional. I was VERY disappointed with the new 4Runner.

Koz

It was developed to sell and frankly a lot of the features that enthusiasts like you and I might like (the V8, center torsen diff, and rear air) aren't going to make a big impression on the every day shopper. They like that pretty EPA number on the window sticker and want to own the newest product even if it is a step back subjectively or objectively. Toyota is in it to make money and sometimes that means alienating a small but vocal/loyal group of enthusiasts.

 

[Flyer]

The look of the 5th is growing on me but not having the V8 option is sad. I hope they bring it back. That is one sweet engine.

 

[cdoyle]

5th gen is a better made, improved upon truck than the 4th gen both in looks and in features. period. end of story. when you bring finances into the debate, it gets way too personal/complicated to have any sort of worthwhile internet debate.

How is it better made? Examples? What was wrong with the 4th gen that is so much better in the 5th gen? What features are so much better in the 5th, that were not in the 4th? Seems to me, there are many more removed features/options in the 5th, that were available in the 4th; for example lack of V8, torsion differential on all models, is height control still an option on the 5th? I find that feature really nice when loading my dirt bike on the back. Oh, the towing capacity was also lowered too wasn't it?
Just nice to have features, projection headlamps, and LED tail lights gone on the 5th. Sure the 5th has some new features, but no way I'm going to give up everything I have now for them, and spend a bunch more money while I'm at it.

Looks are subjective, many don't like the looks of the 5th Gen. Just like many don't like the looks of the 4th Gen. Saying it's a proven fact that the 5th looks better, is dumb. Where are the results of this study?

 

[Maritimer]

Looks are subjective, many don't like the looks of the 5th Gen. Just like many don't like the looks of the 4th Gen. Saying it's a proven fact that the 5th looks better, is dumb. Where are the results of this study?

Subjectively I don't like the looks of the 4th or the size of the 4th or 5th. Objectively, after being away from NA cars for eight years in Asia, I didn't notice 4th generations when I saw them as they didn't differentiate from many vans and CUVs in the looks department.

 

[Jed]

Subjectively I don't like the looks of the 4th or the size of the 4th or 5th.

LOL, you don't have to say "subjectively" when you're stating your opinion. Just the fact that you're stating an opinion makes it subjective in the first place.

BTW, here's my list of the best looking 4Runners from best to worst:

#1 - 4th gen '06-'09
#2 - 4th gen '03-05 (I own an '04 Sport Edition)
#3 - 3rd gen '96-'98
#4 - 3rd gen '99-'02
#5 - 2nd gen (all years)
#6 - 5th gen
#7 - 1st gen (sorry, just not a fan of the first 4Runners)

Of course that's S U B J E C T I V E !!! Hahahaha

 

[THEROK]

you guys are simply being polemic here.

bottom line, a car is a car is a car is a commodity.

it carries people and stuff from point A to point B.

so the real value differentiator is in design (looks) and function.

the 5th gen kills the 4th gen along both fronts. it's newer. it's more powerful. it's more efficient. it's bigger. it's much better looking (gasp). toyota, the company we love, has done a great job, like i said before, improving the breed.

you guys are the same tired rah rah 3rd gen owners at the time when the 4th was released. it's a tired repeat of history. do u not get it?

whether you can afford to buy the 5th gen in cash and you choose not to (lol), how the atennae is ugly... how it doesn't have projection headlamps that aren't OEM HID to begin with... are all pedantics that interneters love to chew on and get knee deep in never to see the light because it's all ego. nerdy ego.

go toyota!

 

[JB.]

the 5th gen kills the 4th gen along both fronts. it's newer. it's more powerful. it's more efficient. it's bigger. it's much better looking

You may not have noticed, but the focus of disagreement with your posts is your inability to differentiate between fact and opinion.

 

[Jed]

You may not have noticed, but the focus of disagreement with your posts is your inability to differentiate between fact and opinion.

Exactly correct. He somehow always fails to understand that.

I have no problem with him being Toyota's #1 cheerleader for the 5th gen 4Runner. At the same time, he should understand that he's talking about opinions, not facts.

 

[ToyotaF1Fan]

you guys are simply being polemic here.

Sure, polemic argument is argument against an opinion, you are trying to pass your opinion off as a fact and your argument got obliterated by everyone who responded to you

bottom line, a car is a car is a car is a commodity.

Finally a fact

it carries people and stuff from point A to point B.

Correct, and I can't tow my trailer with the 5th Gen but I can with the 4th Gen so for me the 5th Gen won't even get me from point a to point b

so the real value differentiator (sic) is in design (looks) and function.

Yes, this again is where your opinion comes in.

the 5th gen kills the 4th gen along both fronts. it's newer. it's more powerful. it's more efficient. it's bigger. it's much better looking (gasp). toyota, the company we love, has done a great job, like i said before, improving the breed.

They improved the breed in some areas and cut costs and regressed in others. That is the natural product development cycle for almost all automobile manufacturers, especially in these financially unstable times.

you guys are the same tired rah rah 3rd gen owners at the time when the 4th was released. it's a tired repeat of history. do u not get it?

This will be my first Toyota product ever, you are painting with a broad and (yet again) inaccurate brush. This is also a red herring to the main polemic, yet another logical fallacy that weakens your position.

whether you can afford to buy the 5th gen in cash and you choose not to (lol), how the atennae (sic) is ugly... how it doesn't have projection headlamps that aren't OEM HID to begin with... are all pedantics (sic) that interneters (sic) love to chew on and get knee deep in never to see the light because it's all ego. nerdy ego.

Didn't you learn yet that Ad Hominem attacks are nothing but a logical fallacy that detract from the overall quality of your polemic.

go toyota!

Hey look, something we can agree on.

:moon:

 

[Koz]

The 5th gen evolved from the 4th (as well as the other gens) and should be a better vehicle. The problem is the limited features available on each model.

When I test drove the 4.6 V8 GX I realized what a mistake Toyota made by not putting this engine in the 4Runner. It has to be one of the smoothest engines I have ever driven. The GX is a heifer at 5300lbs. and it was more nimble and responsive then my 4500lbs V8 Limited T4R (and the 4.7 is a very smooth engine). The kicker is, it even gets better mpg (15/20). My point is, if they put that engine in T4R it would have evolved it into a truly amazing vehicle. Part of the engine upgrade would also include the 6 speed trans. I would bet this drive-train would get the same mpg (or better) as the 5th gen V6 5 speed. That (and cost) may be why it is not offered.

What does Toyota do they throw the big 4cyl in that gets almost the same mileage as the V6.

Koz

 

[ToyotaF1Fan]

When I test drove the 4.6 V8 GX I realized what a mistake Toyota made by not putting this engine in the 4Runner. It has to be one of the smoothest engines I have ever driven. The GX is a heifer at 5300lbs. and it was more nimble and responsive then my 4500lbs V8 Limited T4R (and the 4.7 is a very smooth engine). The kicker is, it even gets better mpg (15/20). My point is, if they put that engine in T4R it would have evolved it into a truly amazing vehicle. Part of the engine upgrade would also include the 6 speed trans. I would bet this drive-train would get the same mpg (or better) as the 5th gen V6 5 speed. That (and cost) may be why it is not offered.

It would also likely cannibalize sales from the GX. The V8 option is a good differentiators for the GX now and isn't something it had before (likely why you see so few of them).

 

[Uneek]

LOL, you don't have to say "subjectively" when you're stating your opinion. Just the fact that you're stating an opinion makes it subjective in the first place.

BTW, here's my list of the best looking 4Runners from best to worst:

#1 - 4th gen '06-'09
#2 - 4th gen '03-05 (I own an '04 Sport Edition)
#3 - 3rd gen '96-'98
#4 - 3rd gen '99-'02
#5 - 2nd gen (all years)
#6 - 5th gen
#7 - 1st gen (sorry, just not a fan of the first 4Runners)

Of course that's S U B J E C T I V E !!! Hahahaha

:iagree: with your list, except I would flip 6 and 7.

Bottom line is if you like the 5th go get it. Don't let Jed, I or anyone else deter you.

IMO, Toyota lost a repeat 4Runner buyer. They probably could careless what I think, after all it's only ONE potential 4Runner owner. Whoopdeedoo right.

 

[JB.]

It would also likely cannibalize sales from the GX.

Agreed.

Toyota made the 4th gen an amazing value by putting it at close parity to the GX. That may be viewed as a mistake they don't wish to repeat.

 

[Jed]

Agreed.

Toyota made the 4th gen an amazing value by putting it at close parity to the GX. That may be viewed as a mistake they don't wish to repeat.

Do you really think that was a mistake? I'm sure some people would cross-shop both vehicles, but most would not.

 

[ToyotaF1Fan]

Do you really think that was a mistake? I'm sure some people would cross-shop both vehicles, but most would not.

I do. The 4G Limited T4R is very luxurious and Lexus-like in fit and finish and material quality at a considerably lower price. The GX looks more flamboyant/extravagant, but the features aren't considerably better.

 

[Jed]

I do. The 4G Limited T4R is very luxurious and Lexus-like in fit and finish and material quality at a considerably lower price. The GX looks more flamboyant/extravagant, but the features aren't considerably better.

Any reason you specifically mentioned the Limited? You do realize that all 4th gen 4Runners are basically the same level of fit and finish, right? I mean, maybe you get leather seating surfaces in the Limited, but for the most part it's the same as the other two models. Still though, I wouldn't call ANY 4Runner luxurious, Limited or not. And I certainly don't think any 4Runner even approaches the GX in terms of luxury and/or material quality.

 

[Koz]

I do. The 4G Limited T4R is very luxurious and Lexus-like in fit and finish and material quality at a considerably lower price. The GX looks more flamboyant/extravagant, but the features aren't considerably better.

Not now! There is a HUGE difference after the 2010 re-design. There is also a HUGE difference between the GX470 and GX460 (including the price). The features in the GX460 are amazing. Just take the outside mirrors. They are heated, auto dimming, have turn signals, auto folding, they tilt down when in reverse; they link with the memory system and automatically adjust to each driver before getting into the car (along with the seats and steering wheel). I will be getting the wide-view monitor system that includes a camera in the side mirror (optional). They may have puddle lights, which light the outside of the vehicle as you approach the vehicle (or the running board lights may do that).

Koz