4th Gen Suspension Options/FAQ

[bbirk]

I will look into the UCS's and find out what that shop needs to replace before I make that decision. I was going to go with the Bilstein 5100's, they seem to be a good fit and recommended by multiple individuals. I have a V6, no plans for a new bumper or added weight to the front, that is why I was thinking the 884 for the front. Again, I appreciate all the assistance and recommendations.

One question regarding tires, is it the with that causes problems or the height or both? And what height and width is typically the max without the body mount chop. I noticed the Nitro Trail grabbers(285/70R17) measure, according to their site - 33.15X11.81 on an 8.5" rim.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I will look into the UCS's and find out what that shop needs to replace before I make that decision. I was going to go with the Bilstein 5100's, they seem to be a good fit and recommended by multiple individuals. I have a V6, no plans for a new bumper or added weight to the front, that is why I was thinking the 884 for the front. Again, I appreciate all the assistance and recommendations.

One question regarding tires, is it the with that causes problems or the height or both? And what height and width is typically the max without the body mount chop. I noticed the Nitro Trail grabbers(285/70R17) measure, according to their site - 33.15X11.81 on an 8.5" rim.

That's a good setup for the price IMO. See the bottom of the original post in this thread for info on tire sizes. 285/70/17 and above may require the bmc. I haven't had to do it with mine, but others have. The issue is both height and width, but mainly width because they are combined with wheel spacers or aftermarket wheels which pushes the tire out closer to the body mount.

 

[saincain78]

That's a good setup for the price IMO. See the bottom of the original post in this thread for info on tire sizes. 285/70/17 and above may require the bmc. I haven't had to do it with mine, but others have. The issue is both height and width, but mainly width because they are combined with wheel spacers or aftermarket wheels which pushes the tire out closer to the body mount.

ASR,

At what point when is comes to tire size will I have to re-gear. I would like to put some 33's on my rig and if I need to re-gear then I guess thats what I will have to do.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

ASR,

At what point when is comes to tire size will I have to re-gear. I would like to put some 33's on my rig and if I need to re-gear then I guess thats what I will have to do.

As with most things there's no set line. I think you're fine with 33s, but would really consider it if you went any bigger.

 

[saincain78]

as with most things there's no set line. I think you're fine with 33s, but would really consider it if you went any bigger.

thanks brother...

 

[foxtrot]

so from reading the first post, if I do a 1/0 lift, I can fit 265/70/17 BFG A/T tires on my rig? also, can I put a spacer on it, lets say 1.25 or 1.5 and not have rubbing with a 1/0? thanks

 

[saincain78]

Yes, you will remove the spacers in the rear and lower the setting on the front shocks to the lowest setting.I haven't seen exact numbers on the fj coils, I'm guessing 3%-5%. A body lift up to 1" will only require a radiator relocate, up to 1.5" you'd need a steering spacer.

Do you have a v6 or v8?

ASR, I went with the OME 885's and the TT Superflex's for the rear. Thanks for your help brother! Could you please refresh me on the spring install...So I will set the 5100's in the front to the lowest setting and just install the superflex's with no spacer in the rear. This should even out the rake and put me at a 3" lift?

 

[Co.Ag.2005]

My stock Tokico shocks are spent. I found 4 good used FJ Bilstein Shocks (~19k miles, off an 2008) + 4 FJ springs (~500 miles, off an 2008)

I'm planning on installing these with my existing Daystar 2.5"/1.5" spacers.

from what I've read, I can plan on a total lift of ~3" in the front & ~1.75-2" in the back. I have a V8 4Runner.

Or, will my nose be higher in the front than in the back? I want it to be level, some front rake is ok, but I don't want rear "sag". any insight would be appreciated!

 

[STAYGOLD]

fwiw, ive got 2 front fj tokico shocks that id gladly give you.

 

[Co.Ag.2005]

thanks for the offer, but I'm wanting to upgrade.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

My stock Tokico shocks are spent. I found 4 good used FJ Bilstein Shocks (~19k miles, off an 2008) + 4 FJ springs (~500 miles, off an 2008)

I'm planning on installing these with my existing Daystar 2.5"/1.5" spacers.

from what I've read, I can plan on a total lift of ~3" in the front & ~1.75-2" in the back. I have a V8 4Runner.

Or, will my nose be higher in the front than in the back? I want it to be level, some front rake is ok, but I don't want rear "sag". any insight would be appreciated!

I would expect the stance to be almost identical to the way it is now, should turn out great.

 

[Co.Ag.2005]

I would expect the stance to be almost identical to the way it is now, should turn out great.

thanks, ASR. I appreciate the quick reply.

 

[naivivvuli]

Hello fellow 4runners. I am a new member to the forum and I have just purchased a 2007 4Runner Sport v6 4wd model. The runner currently has 78k miles on it. I just purchased 4 new tires for the vehicle - Continental CrossContact LX20 - Size: 265/65R17

I am looking to purchase a lift kit for my 4runner and have been reading this thread. I am planning on purchasing the Toytec front kit from this for sale thread - http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...116908-4th-gen-toytec-front-coils-struts.html

and pairing the rear with the Billstein 5100s - Bilstein 5100 Rear shocks for FJ/4Runner - Toytec Lifts: Toyota Lift Kits: FJ Cruiser Lift Kits, Tacoma Lift Kits, Tundra Lift Kits, 4 Runner Lift Kits, Sequoia Lift Kits, Toyota Truck Lift Kits

+ toytec rear coils - ToyTec "Superflex" rear Coils (FJ & 03-09 4Run) - Toytec Lifts: Toyota Lift Kits: FJ Cruiser Lift Kits, Tacoma Lift Kits, Tundra Lift Kits, 4 Runner Lift Kits, Sequoia Lift Kits, Toyota Truck Lift Kits

I do not plan to offroad the vehicle but would like a higher lift just for looks. I won't be upgrading tires however I did purchase a Shrockworks front bumper just for the rugged look.

Given that I have the Xreas suspension, I am going to strip everything off.

What would be the best option in terms of lift height? I am planning to lift the front 2" and would like the rear to be level with the front. I don't want to purchase the new rear brake lines if it's not necessary.

in addition to the lift kit, since i won't be lifting more than 2" in the front, are UCAs still recommended/needed? what other parts would I need?

Thanks for your help

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Hello fellow 4runners. I am a new member to the forum and I have just purchased a 2007 4Runner Sport v6 4wd model. The runner currently has 78k miles on it. I just purchased 4 new tires for the vehicle - Continental CrossContact LX20 - Size: 265/65R17

I am looking to purchase a lift kit for my 4runner and have been reading this thread. I am planning on purchasing the Toytec front kit from this for sale thread - http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...116908-4th-gen-toytec-front-coils-struts.html

and pairing the rear with the Billstein 5100s - Bilstein 5100 Rear shocks for FJ/4Runner - Toytec Lifts: Toyota Lift Kits: FJ Cruiser Lift Kits, Tacoma Lift Kits, Tundra Lift Kits, 4 Runner Lift Kits, Sequoia Lift Kits, Toyota Truck Lift Kits

+ toytec rear coils - ToyTec "Superflex" rear Coils (FJ & 03-09 4Run) - Toytec Lifts: Toyota Lift Kits: FJ Cruiser Lift Kits, Tacoma Lift Kits, Tundra Lift Kits, 4 Runner Lift Kits, Sequoia Lift Kits, Toyota Truck Lift Kits

I do not plan to offroad the vehicle but would like a higher lift just for looks. I won't be upgrading tires however I did purchase a Shrockworks front bumper just for the rugged look.

Given that I have the Xreas suspension, I am going to strip everything off.

What would be the best option in terms of lift height? I am planning to lift the front 2" and would like the rear to be level with the front. I don't want to purchase the new rear brake lines if it's not necessary.

in addition to the lift kit, since i won't be lifting more than 2" in the front, are UCAs still recommended/needed? what other parts would I need?

Thanks for your help

Sounds like a good setup overall. You shouldn't need anything else, no ucas or extended brake lines. Only thing that may be needed is the sway bar relocate.

 

[superman3043]

Coilovers AND Spacers

Alright, I've got a good one for you ARK. So a fellow forum member/friend and I have had this discussion and I've researched the topic here as well as a number of other forums, but haven't really gotten a definitive answer. I understand you may not have the definitive answer on the topic either, but I'd hold your opinion on the matter in high regard.

So basically the question is; do you foresee any benefit in stacking a topout spacer over a coil-over shock? Like if the coil provides 0-3" of lift, do you see a benefit in setting the coil to say 1.5" and using a 1.5" spacer to acheive your 3"? I've read that cranked out coil-overs can have the tendency to produce a harsher ride than when the coil isn't heavily pre-loaded. Also, with the inherent design of the coil-over, wouldn't it stand to reason that less pre-load would also allow your shock more down travel since you've not exhausted a lot of your rod length to gain lift?

I hope that makes sense, if not I can try to elaborate a little better. Just let me know. I'm looking at moving to some Radflo's like yours, but if there is any foreseeable benefit from retaining my spacers in tandem with the CO's (ie. better ride, more travel) then of course, I'm gonna take that route.

Have you got your coils maxed out in lift? Have you played with different settings? Do you notice a difference in ride quality and travel? Would you ever consider a topout spacer on your coilovers? Is that just stupid to spend money on CO's and still want to use spacers with them? Sorry for all of the questions, but I think this might be a pretty good topic for discussion. Especially if other members have ever ran, or have considered running, a similar setup, please chime in with thoughts and opinions.

Thanks ASR!

 

[stanleybb50]

Alright, I've got a good one for you ARK. So a fellow forum member/friend and I have had this discussion and I've researched the topic here as well as a number of other forums, but haven't really gotten a definitive answer. I understand you may not have the definitive answer on the topic either, but I'd hold your opinion on the matter in high regard.

So basically the question is; do you foresee any benefit in stacking a topout spacer over a coil-over shock? Like if the coil provides 0-3" of lift, do you see a benefit in setting the coil to say 1.5" and using a 1.5" spacer to acheive your 3"? I've read that cranked out coil-overs can have the tendency to produce a harsher ride than when the coil isn't heavily pre-loaded. Also, with the inherent design of the coil-over, wouldn't it stand to reason that less pre-load would also allow your shock more down travel since you've not exhausted a lot of your rod length to gain lift?

I hope that makes sense, if not I can try to elaborate a little better. Just let me know. I'm looking at moving to some Radflo's like yours, but if there is any foreseeable benefit from retaining my spacers in tandem with the CO's (ie. better ride, more travel) then of course, I'm gonna take that route.

Have you got your coils maxed out in lift? Have you played with different settings? Do you notice a difference in ride quality and travel? Would you ever consider a topout spacer on your coilovers? Is that just stupid to spend money on CO's and still want to use spacers with them? Sorry for all of the questions, but I think this might be a pretty good topic for discussion. Especially if other members have ever ran, or have considered running, a similar setup, please chime in with thoughts and opinions.

Thanks ASR!

I think ARK will certainly chime in with some better advice/etc, but I like where you're going there, and what I was thinking when I went the cheaper route with the Bilstein 5100's.

I wanted the height of the 3rd perch (almost 2"), but I heard it's a little more harsh the more you pre-load coils. So I set my Bilstein 5100's on the second perch (.85" lift), and then stacked a "Toytec" .5" topout spacer (net approx 1" lift) on top of the strut. This netted me a total of 2" (1" on the pre-load, and 1" on the topout). I figured this was a good balance. I think I am like the only person to do this to-date.

All I do know, is that I love the ride. I don't know if it was necessary or not, or if it kept out some of the "harshness", as I'm not able to compare to anything, but it made me happier, and felt better about my lift. I didn't want the ride to harsh for my wife riding in the passenger seat! She's happy now, so that's all that matters.

*Edit: But I do think this concept is very much utilized/etc. Such as with the "older" style Daystar Lift, which combined pre-load and topout to achieve the 2.5", or the Cornfed Lift, which still utilizes both pre-load and topout. I personally thought this concept was best, which is why I did this with my Billies.

 

[aha2988]

I think ARK will certainly chime in with some better advice/etc, but I like where you're going there, and what I was thinking when I went the cheaper route with the Bilstein 5100's.

I wanted the height of the 3rd perch (almost 2"), but I heard it's a little more harsh the more you pre-load coils. So I set my Bilstein 5100's on the second perch (.85" lift), and then stacked a "Toytec" .5" topout spacer (net approx 1" lift) on top of the strut. This netted me a total of 2" (1" on the pre-load, and 1" on the topout). I figured this was a good balance. I think I am like the only person to do this to-date.

All I do know, is that I love the ride. I don't know if it was necessary or not, or if it kept out some of the "harshness", as I'm not able to compare to anything, but it made me happier, and felt better about my lift. I didn't want the ride to harsh for my wife riding in the passenger seat! She's happy now, so that's all that matters.

*Edit: But I do think this concept is very much utilized/etc. Such as with the "older" style Daystar Lift, which combined pre-load and topout to achieve the 2.5", or the Cornfed Lift, which still utilizes both pre-load and topout. I personally thought this concept was best, which is why I did this with my Billies.

This forum member: "surfmobile" ran a 4" lift spindal with fox 2.5 adjustable extended travel coil overs set at zero lift. (spec'd for FJ's/Taco's) He sent me some travel pics when i was interested in purchasing his CO's which look as if there still for sale in the suspension section http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-suspension-wheels-tires/116501-fox-extended-travel-coilovers.html

Durring the convo i had with him pre purchase he recommended i used a three inch top out spacer to get my lift and keep the coils set at zero lift for more travel and smoother ride..

but these are the pics he texted me to compare... hope he doesnt mind lol...

this one was running coilovers set at three inches (showing down travel) Ill add this guy is in a prerunner 2x4 so some of these pics will show with lift spindles..

this one was running coilovers set at three inches (showing up travel) also he's running OME 3" rear lift coils

this one he had switched over to long travel rear added 4" lift spindals and set the coilovers at zero (showing down travel)

this one is same new setup coilovers set at zero (showing up travel). so basicly you only loose down travel when the coil overs are cranked up. up travel is not affected at all.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Alright, I've got a good one for you ARK. So a fellow forum member/friend and I have had this discussion and I've researched the topic here as well as a number of other forums, but haven't really gotten a definitive answer. I understand you may not have the definitive answer on the topic either, but I'd hold your opinion on the matter in high regard.

So basically the question is; do you foresee any benefit in stacking a topout spacer over a coil-over shock? Like if the coil provides 0-3" of lift, do you see a benefit in setting the coil to say 1.5" and using a 1.5" spacer to acheive your 3"? I've read that cranked out coil-overs can have the tendency to produce a harsher ride than when the coil isn't heavily pre-loaded. Also, with the inherent design of the coil-over, wouldn't it stand to reason that less pre-load would also allow your shock more down travel since you've not exhausted a lot of your rod length to gain lift?

I hope that makes sense, if not I can try to elaborate a little better. Just let me know. I'm looking at moving to some Radflo's like yours, but if there is any foreseeable benefit from retaining my spacers in tandem with the CO's (ie. better ride, more travel) then of course, I'm gonna take that route.

Have you got your coils maxed out in lift? Have you played with different settings? Do you notice a difference in ride quality and travel? Would you ever consider a topout spacer on your coilovers? Is that just stupid to spend money on CO's and still want to use spacers with them? Sorry for all of the questions, but I think this might be a pretty good topic for discussion. Especially if other members have ever ran, or have considered running, a similar setup, please chime in with thoughts and opinions.

Thanks ASR!

Very good question/points! Your line of thought is correct. The less preload on the coil, the smoother the ride. This was a major concern of mine when going with the OW 2.0 coilovers. I almost pulled trigger on the spacer, but before I did, I shot an e-mail to Andries at Overland Warehouse. He advised against using the spacer. Here's a portion of his response:

I would not recommend spacers on top of the coilover, as the extended length will get really long, which will place additional stress on the steering tie-rods, CVs and balljionts. It can also have a negative affect on the coilovers when fully compressed as it leaves very little margin for the floating piston and gas.

My question was targeted towards using the coilovers at 2.5" + a 1" net topout spacer vs setting the coilovers at 3.5". I think the key here is that there are other limitations to IFS flex besides the shocks. Once you reach a certain point, the added shock length will not equate to more flex.

I'm running my coilover's at 3.5" lift. I've not went lower, can't do that because my tires rub like crazy. In the same conversation with Andries that I quoted above, I asked for his thoughts. He said you would most likely never notice the difference between 2.5" and 3.5".

I will say I've been very pleased with the OW 2.0's at 3.5" lift. I've not felt the need to add a spacer after the install. I love the ride they provide. They're definitely smoother than the OME 885 + 5100 combo I had previously. I typically have the mindset of "don't knock it till you try it" but on this one, I don't think there is a need for the spacer. The concerns Andries brought up were enough to deter me. Again, the only difference will be stiffness, I doubt you'd see any difference in travel due to other limitations of an IFS suspension.

On something like the 5100's, using a spacer can help dial in the height better for your particular setup. I'd consider in this instance, but not with adjustable coilovers.
Hope this makes sense...kinda in a rush so didn't have time to really think this out and organize my thoughts.

 

[superman3043]

Very good question/points! Your line of thought is correct. The less preload on the coil, the smoother the ride. This was a major concern of mine when going with the OW 2.0 coilovers. I almost pulled trigger on the spacer, but before I did, I shot an e-mail to Andries at Overland Warehouse. He advised against using the spacer. Here's a portion of his response:

My question was targeted towards using the coilovers at 2.5" + a 1" net topout spacer vs setting the coilovers at 3.5". I think the key here is that there are other limitations to IFS flex besides the shocks. Once you reach a certain point, the added shock length will not equate to more flex.

I'm running my coilover's at 3.5" lift. I've not went lower, can't do that because my tires rub like crazy. In the same conversation with Andries that I quoted above, I asked for his thoughts. He said you would most likely never notice the difference between 2.5" and 3.5".

I will say I've been very pleased with the OW 2.0's at 3.5" lift. I've not felt the need to add a spacer after the install. I love the ride they provide. They're definitely smoother than the OME 885 + 5100 combo I had previously. I typically have the mindset of "don't knock it till you try it" but on this one, I don't think there is a need for the spacer. The concerns Andries brought up were enough to deter me. Again, the only difference will be stiffness, I doubt you'd see any difference in travel due to other limitations of an IFS suspension.

On something like the 5100's, using a spacer can help dial in the height better for your particular setup. I'd consider in this instance, but not with adjustable coilovers.
Hope this makes sense...kinda in a rush so didn't have time to really think this out and organize my thoughts.

Thanks for the reply man! I trust yours and Andries thoughts on this. So I guess my point on the droop would be that I would want the proper suspension components and geometry to limit droop, not run out of stroke prematurely with the CO cranked up and having it being the limiting factor. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that this wouldn't be ideal. Is that a valid concern? Have you tested this on yours to where you could verify that this isn't a valid concern? You'd be an ideal candidate since you're at full lift.

The part about not noticing any difference between 2.5" and 3.5", I find a little hard to buy since that is such a huge ratio. Do you feel like it was valid statement?

I'm glad you're happy with your OW's. You're endorsement as well as, well, everyone who's gotten the OW/Radflo's is what has really swayed me in that direction. I've never really heard or read a negative thing about them... well, actually, I came across a post earlier today on tacomaworld while researching this very subject, where a guy went from Radflo's to Icon's and was happier, but oh well.

I think you understand when I say that I don't want to have to do it more times than is necessary. To me the benefits (smoother ride, more "available stroke) seem to all be there in theory. And honestly, we haven't really stated a legitimate con to the set-up. Any you can think of? Guess I should find somebody local with a similar CO setup at full lift to ride with and maybe do my initial install with the "hybrid" set-up to see if there is any noticeable difference. Decisions decisions....

 

[aha2988]

Thanks for the reply man! I trust yours and Andries thoughts on this. So I guess my point on the droop would be that I would want the proper suspension components and geometry to limit droop, not run out of stroke prematurely with the CO cranked up and having it being the limiting factor. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that this wouldn't be ideal. Is that a valid concern? Have you tested this on yours to where you could verify that this isn't a valid concern? You'd be an ideal candidate since you're at full lift.

The part about not noticing any difference between 2.5" and 3.5", I find a little hard to buy since that is such a huge ratio. Do you feel like it was valid statement?

I'm glad you're happy with your OW's. You're endorsement as well as, well, everyone who's gotten the OW/Radflo's is what has really swayed me in that direction. I've never really heard or read a negative thing about them... well, actually, I came across a post earlier today on tacomaworld while researching this very subject, where a guy went from Radflo's to Icon's and was happier, but oh well.

I think you understand when I say that I don't want to have to do it more times than is necessary. To me the benefits (smoother ride, more "available stroke) seem to all be there in theory. And honestly, we haven't really stated a legitimate con to the set-up. Any you can think of? Guess I should find somebody local with a similar CO setup at full lift to ride with and maybe do my initial install with the "hybrid" set-up to see if there is any noticeable difference. Decisions decisions....

Your in luck superman... the other 4th gen coming with us saterday is running icon adjustable extended travel front set at 3" with the OW 2.5 extended rear.